Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[Fighter]

 

So can anyone explain how stopping Gamergate will make the crazies go away?

 

No the reason GG needs to shutdown is its utterly tainted. Its not going to achieve anything because of the extremist element that has hijacked its motives. Close it down and start some kind of group that can be regulated and raise the valid issues that you guys feel need to be raised

 

You cant expect people who are influential in the gaming industry to support it because of the rampant bigotry displayed by some of the members of GG

 

And no this doesn't mean I am saying you guys are bigots, I consider you moderate supporters of GG

 

 

No. This would happen to absolutely any and all movements that go against the current social justice clique. it does not matter. They will always focus on the fringe that will always be present in any movement that is massively popular and paint everyone with the same taint through the power of their megaphones. 

 

A regulated group would change nothing the same way that the fact that the people who sent death threats don't even do it through the GG hashtag and it matters not. They will seek and find the supporters of your regulated group whom they can use to discredit you and pin them straight on you. Then demand you shut down because people are using your cause for harassment.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Fighter

[Nonek]

I haven't noticed gamergate being tainted, in fact it's the SJF's whom have acted to censor free speech, made liberal use of doxxing, lost people their careers, assumed a fundamentalist stance and acted in general as the fascists they are, as well as making threats exactly the same as the trolls they decry. I've seen people state that gg is tainted and their followers repeating the same message, that it is all about harassment, but i've yet to see gamergate orchestrating a campaign of harassment, being tainted or doing anything other than condemn harassment. One can of course blindly accept what is stated, and parrot it at length, but that is the action of a follower not a thinker.

 

Gamergate seems to be far more about truth, consumer representation and accountability. As old fashioned and irrelevant as these are held to be now. It still seems fit for purpose to me, a moderate, however much its opposition want it to cease to exist.

 

No I think its simply that consumers standing up for themselves is seen as a dangerous practise, after all if customers are united and coordinated, they remove much of the power and influence that the middle man enjoys. That and the gaming press still do not want to admit that they are corrupt, unethical and unfit for purpose.

 

I may be wrong.

[kirottu]

You must not lose faith in GamerGate. GamerGate is like an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think the more heat shot at gamergate in the form of bigotry accusations, the harder and more resistant it will get. From where I'm standing accusing the gaming press of using accusations of bigotry as a shield has been one of the most common complaints, and as such persisting with such accusations will just give credence to the claims of gg.

[Nonek]

I'm also somewhat coming to believe that the SJF's might simply be astounded at customers standing up for themselves. They have for so long tirelessly preached their fashionable yet inane arguments, campaigned for personal preferences and in general discounted the audience whom they should be representing, that it maybe came as somewhat of a shock to find that audience were older than them, more intelligent, more discerning and not particularly enamoured with their painfully weak prose.

 

Thus their superiority turned to outright hostility, how dare these neckbearded, obese, basement dwelling, virgin, undead, geeks stand up for themselves! They should just accept the self righteous preaching of their betters and conform, like a good little oik. One can still see this when in debate with the SJF's, they tend to talk down to their audience, calling them boys or some other diminutive title, telling them that they need things explaining or engaging in casual mockery.

 

To me it speaks of a particularly dislikable attitude, that looks down on ones fellow man or woman, and condemns them enmasse as the SJF's did with millions of recreational game players in their earlier orchestrated attack on the public whom they should be serving.

 

Edit: If I am correct their rampant corruption going unchallenged for years at a time has not helped, from Kane and Lynch to the young lady from IGN appearing in ME3, the public should have made far more of an outcry earlier on. But presumably the outrage and dissatisfaction needed time to build and mature, to everything a season and whatnot.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Nonek

[kirottu]

Codexian made this great post about gaming journalism, gamergate and everything surrounding it:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/worst-thread-ever-general-gaming-sjw-dumping-ground-currently-airing-gamergate.90469/page-367#post-3542787

It's long as life itself, but it is the best thing I have read in a while. Better yet it was written not by someone paid to write, but a forum monkey like us. 

[Elerond]

PC Gamer tweets about their article about USU incident, in which they mention that Anita says that some of the threats had #GamerGate tag in them

http://www.pcgamer.com/anita-sarkeesian-cancels-university-talk-after-school-shooting-threat/

 

This link is not from tweets, but from PCGamer's articles comments where article's writer posted it together with that Jezebel article that I posted previously.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134397896&postcount=12285

[Osvir]

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/gamergate-and-women-in-video-game-culture/543c686878c90a71ff000157

 

EDIT: One could call this Part 2 to Huffington Post's coverage of GamerGate.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Osvir

[BruceVC]

Regulated by who, anyway ?

 

 

 

 

So can anyone explain how stopping Gamergate will make the crazies go away?

 

No the reason GG needs to shutdown is its utterly tainted. Its not going to achieve anything because of the extremist element that has hijacked its motives. Close it down and start some kind of group that can be regulated and raise the valid issues that you guys feel need to be raised

 

You cant expect people who are influential in the gaming industry to support it because of the rampant bigotry displayed by some of the members of GG

 

And no this doesn't mean I am saying you guys are bigots, I consider you moderate supporters of GG

 

 

No. This would happen to absolutely any and all movements that go against the current social justice clique. it does not matter. They will always focus on the fringe that will always be present in any movement that is massively popular and paint everyone with the same taint through the power of their megaphones. 

 

A regulated group would change nothing the same way that the fact that the people who sent death threats don't even do it through the GG hashtag and it matters not. They will seek and find the supporters of your regulated group whom they can use to discredit you and pin them straight on you. Then demand you shut down because people are using your cause for harassment.

 

 

Okay let me try to explain this a different way

 

What is the objective of GG? Everyone can respond, give me the 2-3 main objectives that GG endeavors to achieve

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Codexian made this great post about gaming journalism, gamergate and everything surrounding it:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/worst-thread-ever-general-gaming-sjw-dumping-ground-currently-airing-gamergate.90469/page-367#post-3542787

It's long as life itself, but it is the best thing I have read in a while. Better yet it was written not by someone paid to write, but a forum monkey like us.

Decado is a poster here I believe, has a Keldorn avatar. We were going to go on a jihad against Bioware the last time I saw him. Edited October 15, 2014 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

I haven't noticed gamergate being tainted, in fact it's the SJF's whom have acted to censor free speech, made liberal use of doxxing, lost people their careers, assumed a fundamentalist stance and acted in general as the fascists they are, as well as making threats exactly the same as the trolls they decry. I've seen people state that gg is tainted and their followers repeating the same message, that it is all about harassment, but i've yet to see gamergate orchestrating a campaign of harassment, being tainted or doing anything other than condemn harassment. One can of course blindly accept what is stated, and parrot it at length, but that is the action of a follower not a thinker.

 

Gamergate seems to be far more about truth, consumer representation and accountability. As old fashioned and irrelevant as these are held to be now. It still seems fit for purpose to me, a moderate, however much its opposition want it to cease to exist.

 

No I think its simply that consumers standing up for themselves is seen as a dangerous practise, after all if customers are united and coordinated, they remove much of the power and influence that the middle man enjoys. That and the gaming press still do not want to admit that they are corrupt, unethical and unfit for purpose.

 

I may be wrong.

 

Its not that you may be wrong Nonek, you are unquestionably wrong

 

But on a serious note, I battle to take you seriously when you make suggestions like " there has been no harassment from the GG side "

 

Almost everyone who has been following this debate knows there has been severe  harassment on different levels  from extremists from both sides. So please lets try to have this debate in the realm of relative accuracy ?

[Enoch]

I have to say, I'm confused by this whole thing. 

 

It all seems to be an bizarre confluence of two main points that have no clear relation to each other.  Sure, the gaming press has huge conflict-of-interest problems.  (And I'm shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment!)  How does that have anything at all to do with the would-be-hilarious-if-it-weren't-so-sad "feminism ruins everything" derpfest that appears to be going on? 

[Malcador]

Well, I guess Sarkeesian is the common point. That and, well, people bashed a woman and that's always misogyny. But as one can expect from the Internet equivalent of a bulletin board, it's all a confused and angry mess.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Malcador

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I have to say, I'm confused by this whole thing.

 

It all seems to be an bizarre confluence of two main points that have no clear relation to each other. Sure, the gaming press has huge conflict-of-interest problems. (And I'm shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment!) How does that have anything at all to do with the would-be-hilarious-if-it-weren't-so-sad "feminism ruins everything" derpfest that appears to be going on?

From what I can tell, it's a boiling point to the divide between consumers of video games and journalists who cover video games.

 

In fact I'd argue that the ME3 ending stuff planted the seeds for it.

[BruceVC]

I have to say, I'm confused by this whole thing. 

 

It all seems to be an bizarre confluence of two main points that have no clear relation to each other.  Sure, the gaming press has huge conflict-of-interest problems.  (And I'm shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment!)  How does that have anything at all to do with the would-be-hilarious-if-it-weren't-so-sad "feminism ruins everything" derpfest that appears to be going on? 

 

It gets complicated and everyone will give you different responses depending on who you support. For me from a SJ perspective GG has given certain  real bigots an opportunity  to unite and basically vent there dislike of perceived  changes that are coming to the gaming industry under the guise " we are doing it  because the industry is corrupt and we are voice of real truth and reason " . Feminists and SJW are now the " enemy" . But of course GG has raised some valid concerns which I acknowledge and the people on these forums who support GG I consider moderates

 

But GG won't achieve much as I've tried to explain, no reputable software publisher is going to publically align with GG because of extremist element within GG that continues to make controversial comments and attacks on people who don't support GG 

[Nonek]

 

I haven't noticed gamergate being tainted, in fact it's the SJF's whom have acted to censor free speech, made liberal use of doxxing, lost people their careers, assumed a fundamentalist stance and acted in general as the fascists they are, as well as making threats exactly the same as the trolls they decry. I've seen people state that gg is tainted and their followers repeating the same message, that it is all about harassment, but i've yet to see gamergate orchestrating a campaign of harassment, being tainted or doing anything other than condemn harassment. One can of course blindly accept what is stated, and parrot it at length, but that is the action of a follower not a thinker.

 

Gamergate seems to be far more about truth, consumer representation and accountability. As old fashioned and irrelevant as these are held to be now. It still seems fit for purpose to me, a moderate, however much its opposition want it to cease to exist.

 

No I think its simply that consumers standing up for themselves is seen as a dangerous practise, after all if customers are united and coordinated, they remove much of the power and influence that the middle man enjoys. That and the gaming press still do not want to admit that they are corrupt, unethical and unfit for purpose.

 

I may be wrong.

 

Its not that you may be wrong Nonek, you are unquestionably wrong

 

But on a serious note, I battle to take you seriously when you make suggestions like " there has been no harassment from the GG side "

 

Almost everyone who has been following this debate knows there has been severe  harassment on different levels  from extremists from both sides. So please lets try to have this debate in the realm of relative accuracy ?

 

 

Not that i've seen Bruce, but don't worry I don't take you seriously at all.

 

Edit: Gamergate on the whole has striven to distance itself from harassment and threats, while the main speakers for the social justice fascists have mouthpieces such as Leigh Alexander whose insults and rhetoric have not been stopped or condemned by anybody on her "side." Why there were even idiots stating that any of the ridiculous insults made by the journalists should not be taken so seriously due to there assinine nature, a truly moronic viewpoint unworthy of anybody with a functioning cortex.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Nonek

[Longknife]

 

 

Damned good and convincing circumstantial evidence? Also yes: http://i.lightimg.com/34d0b14a.jpg

 

 

"Asshat" is also a favorite of mine.

 

OH MY GOD IT WAS ME ALL ALONG. ULTIMATE PROOFZ!4!!

 

Yeah the conspiracy theorizing about the death threats is pretty silly. Chances are that the psychopath who made the threads read lots of her tweets & writing (or how else would he have become mad at her?), and used her terminology "back" at her. Or, you know, coincidence.

 

I know it's hard to relate to how someone could make threats like that; or the terrorist threat against Sarkeesian's speech, that was even more horrible. Like, who does that? Lack of morals would not be enough, because in a country with law enforcement, committing a senseless crime like that really does not benefit them at all (nor their 'cause', whatever they think that may be), so I guess they'd have to be literally crazy too?

 

But difficulty to imagine it, should not be taken as an excuse to lazily (and conveniently) think it's not real, or dismiss its effects on the victims. Anyone who watches the news knows that there really are people like that; people who would also follow through on those threats.

 

I'm NOT connecting difficulty to imagine doing it myself with an excuse why it's fake. I think the threats against Anita are genuine.

 

I think the threats against Wu are false. Call it a personal hunch from having seen her now, combined with the fact that within a 24 hour time frame, we've been provided evidence that she makes sockpuppet accounts and that she's deleted a hateful tweet of her own and then blamed it on her account being hacked (for all but four minutes, apparently...), combined with the general suspiciousness of the threatener's methodology, aka he seemingly knows her address but doesn't know if she has kids, he posts in a way that draws attention to her account, she herself seems VERY fond of tweeting and the threatener's uses the same idiom as her.

 

 

As I said though, I see little reason to discuss this further cause either you agree with the circumstantial evidence + my hunch or you don't. I just wanted to make it clear that I don't think EVERY threat is a fake, just this one.

[Gorth]

That and, well, people bashed a woman and that's always misogyny.

Homo Misogynus?

 

 

I probably should take the subject serious, but to the best of my knowledge, I don't bash the opposite sex on a regular basis and consider it more of an "adjustment needed to a first world problem". Now if people were talking about how women get treated in tribal societies suffering from stone age mentality, where women are treated like slaves, raped, humiliated and either killed or forced to marry the offender as a convenience to solve rape crimes, then that is something that gets my blood boiling.

 

Yeah, off topic, carry on...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

That and, well, people bashed a woman and that's always misogyny.

Homo Misogynus?

 

 

I probably should take the subject serious, but to the best of my knowledge, I don't bash the opposite sex on a regular basis and consider it more of an "adjustment needed to a first world problem". Now if people were talking about how women get treated in tribal societies suffering from stone age mentality, where women are treated like slaves, raped, humiliated and either killed or forced to marry the offender as a convenience to solve rape crimes, then that is something that gets my blood boiling.

 

Yeah, off topic, carry on...

That stuff isn't as important as rich white women haveing someone be mean to them on the internet.

[BruceVC]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134397896&postcount=12285

 

Nonek and others please read this link that Elerond posted and then comment about what you disagree with

[Longknife]

http://imgur.com/OPj5gLc

 

Again, THESE are the types of reasons that yes, I am starting to become untrusting of the other side. Put two and two together and figure out why Malaysia is the most common supporter of StopGamerGate worldwide.

[Oerwinde]

The abuse Anita gets isn't because she's a woman, its because she has unpopular views. If she was a dude making the same statements and videos with the same media coverage she would get just as much. Just like Jack Thompson did. But the media didn't care about the abuse Jack Thompson got, because he is male.

[Nonek]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134397896&postcount=12285

 

Nonek and others please read this link that Elerond posted and then comment about what you disagree with

 

Bruce please link something better than that "this is a valid post and I urge you all to read it" hogwash, or you're never going to get taken seriously. Grayson is guilty of ethical misconduct, he did not have to write anything to be guilty of that, he is a game journalist who slept with a developer and did not recuse himself or declare a conflict of interest, this is childishly simple. Nobody is focused on Ms Quinn's adulteries and rapes, she hardly gets mentioned anymore.

[Bryy]

 

 

Looking for evidence of corruption is never a bad thing, regardless of how questionable your motives are

Except what if that corruption doesn't exist? What if it only exists in your head because of your own prejudice?

Then whoever is looking for corruption is wasting their own personal time, so who cares?

 

So, using your own logic, it's okay to dox people, drive them from their home, and threaten to shoot up schools all in the name of "looking for corruption"?

 

I mean, you cast a pretty wide net with your words.

[Oerwinde]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134397896&postcount=12285

 

Nonek and others please read this link that Elerond posted and then comment about what you disagree with

People are still bringing up Zoe Quinn? It was my understanding she's a distant memory in this.