Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[licketysplit]

My only goal is not to be accused of being a rapist because I am a white male gamer. But, yeah, those expectations are too high of sexist pigs like the SJW crowd.

Quit raping me.

[BruceVC]

Should I be upset that Intel supports women? I am not as I support women. Intel made a business decision to not have their brand supporting an article that caused a schism in an industry that they rely on financially. intel still pulled support for a website that was intending to and succeeded to cause derision among their customers. I never expected Intel to say "Go Gamergate!!!" I expect companies to pull support because they don't want to have their brands to look for or against either group. However, GG survives without ad revenue. The media doesn't. Which is something they seem to forget.

 

I also think that the other companies will start laying down real pressure on the mdia outlets if this keeps up getting closer to the Christmas season. They have a bottom line and investors to consider. Yay! Capitalism!

 

I hear you and that's a reasonable view

 

But do you see the issue? Firstly as we discussed and agreed on without advertisements most websites will close down. So lets say your objective is get to websites like RPS and Gamasutra to close down for what they have said in the past on certain issues. And the way you would achieve this is through putting pressure on the likes of Intel to pull there marketing funding, this is highly unlikely because to pull there marketing due to an movement like GG that would mean these corporations would be aligning with a movement that is associated with sexism. And that's the point I'm trying to make. You won't find large corporations doing this as we can see from the apology from Intel

 

So again I just don't realistically see how you will achieve your goal? The reality is the aspirations of GG are not as important or significant as the influence of movements that are opposed to sexism or espouse gender equality, like feminist movements

[BruceVC]

My only goal is not to be accused of being a rapist because I am a white male gamer. But, yeah, those expectations are too high of sexist pigs like the SJW crowd.

 

I'm a SJW and I don't think you are rapist just because you are white, male gamer.

 

I publically acknowledge that. There you go, your expectation has been achieved. Are you happy now?

[Keyrock]

Out of curiosity, can someone fill me in on Gamasutra?  I'm going to make the leap in logic and assume they're one of the sites that aired the Gamers are Dead articles and are anti-GG, correct?  I ask because it's not a site I ever visit.  There are certain sites I used to visit, quite regularly in some cases, that I no longer visit at all, to the point that I won't even click on a link if it has that site's name in it (thanks to all this that post archived articles), but Gamasutra wasn't a site I really visited before, so nothing has changed in that regard.

 

My view is this, I'm not in favor of silencing anybody by force.  I don't condone the SJWs manipulating the message and trying to silence opposing viewpoints via threats and at the same time I don't condone any GG or NYS folks trying to manipulate the message and silence opposing viewpoints via threats.  With that said, if sites lose sponsorships or even completely shut down because of dwindling viewership then that's just the market speaking, as far as I'm concerned, that's what you get for attacking and demonizing your core target audience (seriously, how in the world can attacking your core target audience be a good idea?).  As long as a site losing business or shutting down is a result of dwindling viewership and not due to people messing with their servers, threatening them, or blocking their channels, then that's just capitalism in action as far as I'm concerned.

[Ganrich]

Except they did pull their ad support because of GG. They pulled it because they were spending money to run ads on a site that has caused their consumer base to fight. They don't want to be seen supporting either side because it could cause a loss of sales either way. They backed out because they were spending money and seen as supporting one side. Now they are not spending money, and just clarified that they aren't supporting either side. Most of the big companies are going to get antsy with Christmas coming. If GG keeps going strong Intel won't be the last company. Keep in mind that most AAA game companies probably see more benefit hosting their own videos and TV ads (perhaps even youtubers) than banners on these sites.

 

I don't expect to beat back feminism. I don't have any stake in feminism. I expect to get a media that can act their age by not calling their consumers names, not shut down discussion, and actually compete with one another instead of communicating and deciding a single narrative. I also am still suspect of the IGF/Fez connection, and don't think the person (or people) in charge of the IGF should be able to personally invest in the games submitted.

 

As an aside: Steam also changed their Curator disclosure agreement to enforce Curators to show if they have received financial compensation to advertise a particular piece of software. This is also a win for GG, IMHO.

[Ganrich]

@Keyrock - IIRC Gamasutra (Leigh Alexander in particular) was the first "gamers are dead" article to hit the web.

 

Edit: I could be wrong though. Take that with a grain of salt I guess. I would say that Leigh Alexander is probably the most vocal and hateful press people that I have seen speaking out against GG.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Ganrich

[BruceVC]

Out of curiosity, can someone fill me in on Gamasutra?  I'm going to make the leap in logic and assume they're one of the sites that aired the Gamers are Dead articles and are anti-GG, correct?  I ask because it's not a site I ever visit.  There are certain sites I used to visit, quite regularly in some cases, that I no longer visit at all, to the point that I won't even click on a link if it has that site's name in it (thanks to all this that post archived articles), but Gamasutra wasn't a site I really visited before, so nothing has changed in that regard.

 

My view is this, I'm not in favor of silencing anybody by force.  I don't condone the SJWs manipulating the message and trying to silence opposing viewpoints via threats and at the same time I don't condone any GG or NYS folks trying to manipulate the message and silence opposing viewpoints via threats.  With that said, if sites lose sponsorships or even completely shut down because of dwindling viewership then that's just the market speaking, as far as I'm concerned, that's what you get for attacking and demonizing your core target audience (seriously, how in the world can attacking your core target audience be a good idea?).  As long as a site losing business or shutting down is a result of dwindling viewership and not due to people messing with their servers, threatening them, or blocking their channels, then that's just capitalism in action as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yes Gamasutra is a website where the "reviled" feminist Leigh Alexander posts on, so it has become one of the websites that many people on GG see as the enemy

 

But the realty is its an excellent and informative website that discusses many important and interesting articles about the gaming industry. You should go there yourself and see, it offers a very mature view on  all things related to gaming

 

They do support feminists and are opposed to the abuse Zoe Quinn received but this is small part of what overall the website offers

Edited October 4, 2014 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

Except they did pull their ad support because of GG. They pulled it because they were spending money to run ads on a site that has caused their consumer base to fight. They don't want to be seen supporting either side because it could cause a loss of sales either way. They backed out because they were spending money and seen as supporting one side. Now they are not spending money, and just clarified that they aren't supporting either side. Most of the big companies are going to get antsy with Christmas coming. If GG keeps going strong Intel won't be the last company. Keep in mind that most AAA game companies probably see more benefit hosting their own videos and TV ads (perhaps even youtubers) than banners on these sites.

 

I don't expect to beat back feminism. I don't have any stake in feminism. I expect to get a media that can act their age by not calling their consumers names, not shut down discussion, and actually compete with one another instead of communicating and deciding a single narrative. I also am still suspect of the IGF/Fez connection, and don't think the person (or people) in charge of the IGF should be able to personally invest in the games submitted.

 

As an aside: Steam also changed their Curator disclosure agreement to enforce Curators to show if they have received financial compensation to advertise a particular piece of software. This is also a win for GG, IMHO.

 

Okay we need to watch and see what happens. IMO we won't see many companies doing what Intel did for the reasons I explained, but I am not a real prognosticator and base my views on evidence and  how business works. So lets see what happens with other companies

[licketysplit]

 

Out of curiosity, can someone fill me in on Gamasutra?  I'm going to make the leap in logic and assume they're one of the sites that aired the Gamers are Dead articles and are anti-GG, correct?  I ask because it's not a site I ever visit.  There are certain sites I used to visit, quite regularly in some cases, that I no longer visit at all, to the point that I won't even click on a link if it has that site's name in it (thanks to all this that post archived articles), but Gamasutra wasn't a site I really visited before, so nothing has changed in that regard.

 

My view is this, I'm not in favor of silencing anybody by force.  I don't condone the SJWs manipulating the message and trying to silence opposing viewpoints via threats and at the same time I don't condone any GG or NYS folks trying to manipulate the message and silence opposing viewpoints via threats.  With that said, if sites lose sponsorships or even completely shut down because of dwindling viewership then that's just the market speaking, as far as I'm concerned, that's what you get for attacking and demonizing your core target audience (seriously, how in the world can attacking your core target audience be a good idea?).  As long as a site losing business or shutting down is a result of dwindling viewership and not due to people messing with their servers, threatening them, or blocking their channels, then that's just capitalism in action as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yes Gamasutra is a website where the "reviled" feminist Leigh Alexander posts on, so it has become one of the websites that many people on GG see as the enemy

 

But the realty is its an excellent and informative website that discusses many important and interesting articles about the gaming industry. You should go there yourself and see, it offers a very mature view on  all things related to gaming

 

 

 

 

[Orogun01]

 

Out of curiosity, can someone fill me in on Gamasutra?  I'm going to make the leap in logic and assume they're one of the sites that aired the Gamers are Dead articles and are anti-GG, correct?  I ask because it's not a site I ever visit.  There are certain sites I used to visit, quite regularly in some cases, that I no longer visit at all, to the point that I won't even click on a link if it has that site's name in it (thanks to all this that post archived articles), but Gamasutra wasn't a site I really visited before, so nothing has changed in that regard.

 

My view is this, I'm not in favor of silencing anybody by force.  I don't condone the SJWs manipulating the message and trying to silence opposing viewpoints via threats and at the same time I don't condone any GG or NYS folks trying to manipulate the message and silence opposing viewpoints via threats.  With that said, if sites lose sponsorships or even completely shut down because of dwindling viewership then that's just the market speaking, as far as I'm concerned, that's what you get for attacking and demonizing your core target audience (seriously, how in the world can attacking your core target audience be a good idea?).  As long as a site losing business or shutting down is a result of dwindling viewership and not due to people messing with their servers, threatening them, or blocking their channels, then that's just capitalism in action as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yes Gamasutra is a website where the "reviled" feminist Leigh Alexander posts on, so it has become one of the websites that many people on GG see as the enemy

 

But the realty is its an excellent and informative website that discusses many important and interesting articles about the gaming industry. You should go there yourself and see, it offers a very mature view on  all things related to gaming

 

They do support feminists and are opposed to the abuse Zoe Quinn received but this is small part of what overall the website offers

 

I used to be on Gamasutra a lot, until for every two pieces that gave insight into the game industry and PR reports there was one feminist one.

Leight Alexander is Editor in Chief of (I think) it was the blogging section and she had no qualms taking down blogs to censor speech she didn't agree with.

If Gamasutra wants to remake themselves from a developer hub into a feminist site, that's their right but if this is just her actions then they deserve to know what's going on.

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

Out of curiosity, can someone fill me in on Gamasutra?  I'm going to make the leap in logic and assume they're one of the sites that aired the Gamers are Dead articles and are anti-GG, correct?  I ask because it's not a site I ever visit.  There are certain sites I used to visit, quite regularly in some cases, that I no longer visit at all, to the point that I won't even click on a link if it has that site's name in it (thanks to all this that post archived articles), but Gamasutra wasn't a site I really visited before, so nothing has changed in that regard.

 

My view is this, I'm not in favor of silencing anybody by force.  I don't condone the SJWs manipulating the message and trying to silence opposing viewpoints via threats and at the same time I don't condone any GG or NYS folks trying to manipulate the message and silence opposing viewpoints via threats.  With that said, if sites lose sponsorships or even completely shut down because of dwindling viewership then that's just the market speaking, as far as I'm concerned, that's what you get for attacking and demonizing your core target audience (seriously, how in the world can attacking your core target audience be a good idea?).  As long as a site losing business or shutting down is a result of dwindling viewership and not due to people messing with their servers, threatening them, or blocking their channels, then that's just capitalism in action as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yes Gamasutra is a website where the "reviled" feminist Leigh Alexander posts on, so it has become one of the websites that many people on GG see as the enemy

 

But the realty is its an excellent and informative website that discusses many important and interesting articles about the gaming industry. You should go there yourself and see, it offers a very mature view on  all things related to gaming

 

They do support feminists and are opposed to the abuse Zoe Quinn received but this is small part of what overall the website offers

 

I used to be on Gamasutra a lot, until for every two pieces that gave insight into the game industry and PR reports there was one feminist one.

Leight Alexander is Editor in Chief of (I think) it was the blogging section and she had no qualms taking down blogs to censor speech she didn't agree with.

If Gamasutra wants to remake themselves from a developer hub into a feminist site, that's their right but if this is just her actions then they deserve to know what's going on.

 

 

 

Its interesting that is your observation because that  really hasn't been my experience. I think the number of feminist articles they post compared to normal articles about gaming  are maybe 1 in 20?

 

Just take at the website now and you'll see what they are discussing

[Keyrock]

Of course, the fact that Gamasutra was the site where the whole Gamers are Dead thing should have been something I remembered, I didn;t since it;s a site I never visited anyway.  My bad, thanks for the info.

[Volourn]

"I'm a SJW and I don't think you are rapist just because you are white, male gamer.

 

I publically acknowledge that. There you go, your expectation has been achieved. Are you happy now?"
 

One poster isn't a crowd.

 

 

"Yes Gamasutra is a website where the "reviled" feminist Leigh Alexander posts on, so it has become one of the websites that many people on GG see as the enemy"
 

Alexander is a hater. She hates both men and women. She's about power and control. She attacks women who disagrees with her - she's even gotten women fired for speaking out against her. She's one of those feminists who truly believes all men are rapists just by existing. The fact you obviously support shows why SJWs cna't be trusted when it comes to true equality.

[Longknife]

But do you see the issue? Firstly as we discussed and agreed on without advertisements most websites will close down. So lets say your objective is get to websites like RPS and Gamasutra to close down for what they have said in the past on certain issues. And the way you would achieve this is through putting pressure on the likes of Intel to pull there marketing funding, this is highly unlikely because to pull there marketing due to an movement like GG that would mean these corporations would be aligning with a movement that is associated with sexism. And that's the point I'm trying to make. You won't find large corporations doing this as we can see from the apology from Intel

 

 

 

You don't get it.

 

 

Make no mistake, Intel did indeed pull those ads due to GamerGate. Did it pull because they give a damned about the debate at all? No. Did it pull because the majority of consumers are with GamerGate and associating with an unpopular business is bad for their business? Absolutely.

 

Intel's statement was driven by the exact same thing that always drives businesses: an interest in profit. They don't want bad rep from being known as sexist, nor do they want bad rep from not listening to the people of GamerGate.

 

 

So what's the final result? They pull ads with a blanket statement about how they don't give two ****s about the debate, they care about consumer concern. AKA, they WILL listen to the people of GamerGate because they're larger, but that does not neccesarily mean they give a damned about the debate. And interestingly while feminists might see this as a victory cause they say "see, it had NOTHING to do with GamerGate" (idiots), journalists would be absolute idiots to view this as a victory, because this is Intel's excuse to continue NOT funding Gamasutra. They have no motivation to return to advertising on there if feminists gobble up that statement....which if we're to use you as an example, they certainly will.

 

 

  As I said, ultimately what this is is democracy. Companies will bow to the larger group, and the larger group is undeniably GamerGate. This is how GamerGate is forcing the hand of the situation and forcefully turning it into democracy and pulling it away from....whatever the **** this was when the journalists assigned motives and jobs to their own consumers and expected them to shut up while refusing to talk to us directly.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Longknife

[BruceVC]

 

One poster isn't a crowd.

 

 

 

 

False, I am a SJW. I am legion, I want you to not think that I am just one poster. That's you not seeing the big ideological picture. I know many SJW who I can guarantee you don't think that all white, males gamers are rapists

 

That's a fact !!!

[Lexx]

Intel responds to the outcry after pulling ads from Gamasutra.

 

http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/10/03/chip-shot-intel-issues-statement-on-gamasutra-advertising

Heh, but isn't this the so called "non-apology" apology? I mean this part:

 

We apologize and we are deeply sorry IF we offended anyone.

I remember that some time ago people where making a big fuzz about such apologies / wordings.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Lexx

[TrashMan]

Frak those people then.

[Walsingham]

I'm not saying I won't buy Intel on my next upgrade. But for the first time ever I will consider alternatives seriously. 

 

Nudges. Nudges are powerful.

[Lexx]

Only bought AMD the last time because it was cheaper. If I had the money, I'd pick Intel any time, though. :>

Edited October 4, 2014 by Lexx

[Meshugger]

This is all kinds ***** up. Zoe Quinn's photographer for an erotica site, claims *publicly* on Facebook that ZQ admitted to have stabbed a rapist to death. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/mallorie.nasrallah

 

 

I am very sceptical about this, since this kinds of allegations are serious matters.

[Walsingham]

Only bought AMD the last time because it was cheaper. If I had the money, I'd pick Intel any time, though. :>

 

Like I say, I may still choose Intel. But making me never consider any other chip cost Intel a lot of money. Losing that is dangerous.

[Longknife]

This is all kinds ***** up. Zoe Quinn's photographer for an erotica site, claims *publicly* on Facebook that ZQ admitted to have stabbed a rapist to death. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/mallorie.nasrallah

 

 

I am very sceptical about this, since this kinds of allegations are serious matters.

 

 

It's simple: Zoe Quinn is a sociopath and/or pathological liar.

 

 

I don't mean to sound prejudice here, but seeing her photo....well, it reminded me of a pathological liar I once knew.

In a nutshell I would expect the entire story is fabricated, and Zoe is the type of person to need attention and approval. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if - quite ironically - her claims of setting off a doxxing of a site is absolute bull**** she spewed just to seem either connected and/or tech savvy.

 

But all of this is besides the point anyways as the girl is largely irrelevant. All it potentially does is highlight how....warped these people are, but even that's a big stretch as it claims the entirety of the group must be equally as warped. I would say though that I avoid such people like the plague and the pathological liars I've met have been absolutely tossed out of society and lived as social outcasts, often laughed at for their ridiculous stories and how insanely unaware they were of everyone seeing through their bull**** as they stir stories that spread negative lies about others. That this community isn't doing the same with her, that I find a bit unordinary and odd. Guessing no one caught on.

[Longknife]

Stumbled upon these guys at reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

 

Anyone knew about this? Thought reddit was a no-go for GamerGate.

[Longknife]

Oh and apparently they really learned their lesson from this Intel thing, so that's nice too: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzEtPs8CIAAIFbu.jpg

[Gorgon]

So there are naked Zoe Quinn pics. Sorry I lost focus after Zoe Quinn's photographer for an erotica site

 

hmm..