"Moderate" Muslims Had a Peace Conference in Norway...

[Volourn]

"the level of hatred for radicals is vehement"
 

They sound rather radical to me...

[Ganrich]

Moderate Satanists also do not believe in baby-sacrifice, instead they use goats, or just buy the blood from the butcher. They're cool and moderate and all.

Actually, you are describing Devil Worshipers which are not synonymous with Satanists. Just to preface this... I am spiritual, but not religious. I just love reading on the different religions of our world both past and present. The mythologies are wonderful... Even when cultish or fringe.

 

Satanists typically (followers of Anton LeVey) are just atheists with flavor. They don't believe in God or Satan. They believe that people should treat people well because it is the right thing to do, and not because of fear of the lake of fire. Satanists also believe in doing what they enjoy be it sex, gambling, etc as long as it doesn't hurt other people in the process. Their appearance and name is incredibly misleading. They call themselves Satanists because they believe in not being held back by a Deity giving rules and regulations, and that is what the Serpent in Eden, and a few other instances in the Bible of Satan describe. It describes empowering humans. A core belief is that the person is their own god and should act responsibly as a byproduct. http://churchofsatan.com

 

Another Sect of Satanism actually does worship Satan, but they believe he is the creator and wants to empower humanity hence the Snake in the Garden of Eden. They believe Jehovah/YHWH to be a deceiver to hold humanity back. They also do not perform sacrifices against humans or animals. They believe the true Gods are what Judaism, and Christianity by proxy, are based on. The religions that predate them if you will. Although, I am unsure what deities of old they consider real off the top of my head, but I believe they worship the gods that are similar to the Egyptian God Set. http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

 

Devil Worship is the worship of Devils and demons. They perform sacrifices and the like. They aren't however, necessarily, Satanists. They can be a form of Satanist, but not all or even a majority of Satanists are Devil Worshippers.

 

On the note of Christianity and its anti-gay stance. The most common story is that of Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. I believe this is a crappy translation of the Hebrew word "to know". They add sexual connotation in the English translation when there is none in the Hebrew word in the story. The mob wants to meet Lot's guests (Angels) so that they may know them, but it isn't sexual. Here is a link to this topic if interested: http://hoperemains.webs.com/sodomandgomorrah.htm One thing I have also read, but isn't in the article I just linked is that when Lot refuses to give the mob the angels (as it is ancient Hebrew custom to protect guests at all cost) he offers his daughters to the mob so that "they may know them". The word used in this instance is said to imply sexual connotation. The article goes to greater detail on the rest of the theory if you are interested.

 

I need to read up on Islam. It is one I haven't had the time to get into, and I have limited time and I like reading up on polytheistic religions of old more so than our current monotheistic ones. So, I can't say much on the video other than it is disturbing, but I have little context.

[Walsingham]

 

This thread is typical of a warped circular logic. "Muslims believe in eternal war, therefore they must be stopped. If they don't believe in eternal war then they aren't muslim."

 

Give me a break.

 

A few thousand young men with masculinity anxiety and dodgy facial hair does not a justification for ethnic cleansing make.

It's not thousand it's hundred thousands men and women who kill people and threaten all non-muslims and millions of Muslims that supports them.

Have we ever heard from any Muslim officials any words of condemnation for Muslim terrorists? Did any Muslim ever told that Muslim terrorists should be excluded from Muslim communities?

No, we don't hear it. All we ever hear is "we are not all like that"... reassuring as hell.

 

 

ROFL. There's no such thing as a muslim 'official' outside Shia islam.

 

The fact that you're advocating condemning all muslims, without even knowing this ought to tell you something.

[Namutree]

"the level of hatred for radicals is vehement"

 

They sound rather radical to me...

No, but they get upset that radicals make them look bad. It's understandably embarrassing for them.

[Namutree]

 

ROFL. There's no such thing as a muslim 'official' outside Shia islam.

 

The fact that you're advocating condemning all muslims, without even knowing this ought to tell you something.

Well there is now. It's called Caliphate and they are at war with us and actively trying to kill us. And since there is no way to distinguish them apart and apparently they dont want to, we should target them all.

 

Are you referring to ISIS? Almost all Muslims don't recognize any caliphate.

[Hurlshort]

Muslim extremists kill more Muslims than anybody else, so yeah.  Sharp_One seems to have little idea what he is talking about.  There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world.

[Namutree]

Muslim extremists kill more Muslims than anybody else, so yeah.  Sharp_One seems to have little idea what he is talking about.  There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world.

Funny how that is. "We love Islam! Die you stupid Muslims!"

[HoonDing]

They don't consider the ones they kill to be muslims.

[Hurlshort]

I think I should probably repeat this last bit.  THERE ARE 1.6 BILLION MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD.  Trying to paint them all with the same brush is ridiculous.  

[Oerwinde]

I don't know the numbers on how many muslims are in Canada, but the only group of them I ever see on TV is the Muslim Canadian Congress, which is a liberal secular group. They are often denouncing extremists and such.

[licketysplit]

I think I should probably repeat this last bit.  THERE ARE 1.6 BILLION MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD.  Trying to paint them all with the same brush is ridiculous.  

 

Of course it is. The problem is moderates are apologists for the extremists. Core tenets have to be scrutinized and politics need to be separated, but so far, which religion has managed to do that? This video, in Norway of all places shows hundreds of moderates in favor of stoning and proclaiming Islam THE one true way. That is dangerous ideology at work.

[BruceVC]

I think what Sharp_ One is trying to say is that there is a perceived  lack of condemnation from the Muslim community whenever there is an act of terror from Muslim extremists

 

Now this obviously varies from country to country but I can say this is definitely a problem in South Africa from  my discussions with the Muslim community

 

For example I listen to a very popular and prominent radio talk show called 702 and I have heard very little criticism from Muslim callers about any act of violence perpetuated by Islamic extremists.

 

In fact last week there were 3 separate Muslim callers who phoned in about a discussion around ISIS  to say " that we did not know the truth and that ISIS wasn't an Islamic organisation and the CIA was behind the creation of them ". It was straight Vals conspiracy theory nonsense

 

So there is definitely misinformation being spread in the  South African Muslim community. We literally never hear condemnation about acts of Islamic extremism and in fact we seem to hear more justification, we still hear the old " its the Americans fault for bombing Iraq and Afghanistan" nonsense. But I do hear criticisms from the UK Muslim community on Sky and other channels so this is not a global view

Edited September 22, 2014 by BruceVC

[Meshugger]

I find it reassuring that despite there are 1.6 billion muslims (or whatever that number), most of them still seem to be normal people with aspirations and dreams. To me it means that, they are good people despite the religion, not because of it.

 

I mean, Muhammed was pretty much a warrior with really ***** morals.  

[Volourn]

"I think what Sharp_ One is trying to say is that there is a perceived  lack of condemnation from the Muslim community whenever there is an act of terror from Muslim extremists"

 

The problem is too many (not all and even one is enough) muslims do/say the following,"What they do is wrong but..."

 

Once you do that GAME OVER.

 

Don't make excuses. Simple as that.

[BruceVC]

"I think what Sharp_ One is trying to say is that there is a perceived  lack of condemnation from the Muslim community whenever there is an act of terror from Muslim extremists"

 

The problem is too many (not all and even one is enough) muslims do/say the following,"What they do is wrong but..."

 

Once you do that GAME OVER.

 

Don't make excuses. Simple as that.

 

That's been my personal experience in the South African context around what ISIS are doing, so the typical comment to ISIS brutality is something along the lines of

 

" yes I don't support them BUT ....."

 

and I always find  that the moment someone uses the  " but " word it almost negates everything that said before because then there is this  complicated justification for there actions.  And  in South Africa we are dealing with a greater problem and that's around perception, as I mentioned  there really are  people who deny that groups like Boko Haram and ISIS are Muslim extremists. And that's very unhelpful to the broader understanding of why these groups exist and how to reduce there effectiveness

[Volourn]

To twist this to the other big internet convo: You'll never read me say the following: "People threatening Anita with bombs and wrape are wrong to do so but..." No, they're just wrong even if I agree with other stuff.  Bombs and rape is wrong. Period. No excuse justifies it.

[Tsuga C]

If you really want moderate voices, go to http://www.cair.com/ and you will see a socially active, tolerant, and educated Islamic group.  I tend to go to them for most of my informational needs on Islam.

Proving to one and all just how out of touch with reality you remain, Hurlshot. Here's someone with a better grasp on the unvarnished reality of Islam.

[Hurlshort]

 

If you really want moderate voices, go to http://www.cair.com/ and you will see a socially active, tolerant, and educated Islamic group.  I tend to go to them for most of my informational needs on Islam.

Proving to one and all just how out of touch with reality you remain, Hurlshot. Here's someone with a better grasp on the unvarnished reality of Islam.

 

 

That was an interesting read, thanks.  I would say I support many of his ideals about more Muslims speaking out against violence and Jihad.  He hopes for a flowering or renaissance of the Muslim world where equality is the focus, and he says there is nothing 'anti-islamic' in that sentiment.  I agree wholeheartedly.

 

But yeah, I disagree on the CAIR thing.  The idea that it is a shadowy front for Hamas is far-fetched.  It was linked to a shady charity organization.  But it's an organization that has been vocally condemning terrorism and extremism since before 9/11.  The website is hardly a radical platform, and the CAIR branch in my area has done nothing but reach out to the civic and religious community to build bridges.  

[Walsingham]

Thought occurred to me over my morning coffee which I think is definitive:

 

Not all Muslims must be supportive of jihad, because otherwise why else would Al Qaeda and friends murder so many Muslims for not supporting jihad?

[BruceVC]

Thought occurred to me over my morning coffee which I think is definitive:

 

Not all Muslims must be supportive of jihad, because otherwise why else would Al Qaeda and friends murder so many Muslims for not supporting jihad?

 

Of course this is true, but any reasonable person knows this

Edited September 23, 2014 by BruceVC

[Chilloutman]

Well nazi were moderate as well until they were majority...

[Namutree]

 

 

‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. – Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’

Isn't, 'The Haj' a fictional book? Why would anyone care about what a made up story says about Muslims? From the Muslims I know in Dearborn; Islamic families tend to be really close. They definitely weren't brother against brother and sons against father. If anything; they are flawed because they are too attached to one another. 

[Namutree]

 

 

 

 

‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. – Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’

Isn't, 'The Haj' a fictional book? Why would anyone care about what a made up story says about Muslims? From the Muslims I know in Dearborn; Islamic families tend to be really close. They definitely weren't brother against brother and sons against father. If anything; they are flawed because they are too attached to one another. 

 

 

It's just a quotation that was in the article I posted?!

 

Why would some one put a line from a fictional book into their article? It's just weird.

[Agiel]

I think you will find that many young jihadists these days have only a very superficial notion of Islam:

 

 

 

No strangers to religious conviction, the Burnhams gently engaged their captors in theological discussion and found these jihadists to be shallow, even adolescent, in their faith. Unfamiliar with the Koran, the outlaws had only a sketchy notion of Islam, which they saw as a set of behavioral rules, to be violated when it suited them. Kidnapping, murder, and theft were justified by their special status as “holy warriors.” One by one they sexually appropriated several of the women captives, claiming them as “wives.”

 

-Mark Bowden "Jihadists in Paradise". The Atlantic

 

I think one would-be IS fighter trying to book a flight to Syria was arrested with a copy of "Islam for Dummies" in his personal effects.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Agiel

[NWN_babaYaga]

I know lots of muslims... im in berlin! and they all dont share this radical takfiri satanistic barbarism. Takfiris are not muslims. They are a sect of saudi arabia!

 

You can compare these freaks with the chrisitan zealots who take the bible pure literaly and think that eve was being made out of a rip. They realy believe that. So whenever some says hey look here is written, cut of his infidel head and raping of chirdren is ok... he definately is not a muslim!

Edited September 23, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga