Drama in indy gaming and games journalism part 2

[Shallow]

https://za.celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/emma-watson-delivers-stirring-speech-at-u-n-204442194.html

 

Guys here is an interesting read, I have even more respect for Emma Watson after seeing her efforts to highlight the campaign for gender equality

 

Very relevant when she said  

 

"I was appointed as Goodwill Ambassador for U.N. Women six months ago and the more I've spoken about feminism, the more I have realized that fighting for women's rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop."

 

"Feminism," Watson continued, "is, by definition, the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes."

 

How many times have I said that feminism doesn't mean you are a man-hater or that men must be marginalized ...Volo I hope you read this

You're a bit hypocritical seeing as you'll flip out if people disapprove of journalists ****talking all gamers, claiming gamer only means some gamers for reasons. Feminists generally only give a **** about the female side of gender equality, whilst in the more civilized portions of the world men are generally getting just as screwed by lack of equality as women. A massive portion of people considering themselves feminists who aren't 100% casual about it aren't all about equality, they're all about benifits for women. If you pick a word as naturally biased as feminism, which is also used by groups who aren't for what you believe in, and whose structure naturally implies it belongs to those groups and not yours, don't complain when people don't agree with you regarding what it means.

[kirottu]

Two new articles by Milo about the journalist mailing list/forum/thingie.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/22/They-re-on-to-us-gaming-journalists-respond-to-their-critics-in-series-of-new-GameJournoPros-emails

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list

 

They had a hate thread for TotalBiscuit, and Ubisoft's marketing executive is in the mailing list.

 

These guys... they really have no idea whatsoever what professional journalism is.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I find it funny that Breitbart is more honest than gaming journalists. Interesting times and all that.

[Meshugger]

What a man-pile.

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, like I posted earlier, 90% of the list is white males. 89,74%, technically. I'm going to assume most of them are cis-gendered too. That's a lot worse than all numbers on diversity among gamers, whether you account for hardcore vs casual or not.

 

Looks like Leigh Alexander isn't actually on it. Looks like she's still not allowed to play with the boys.

Edited September 22, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Meshugger]

Yeah, like I posted earlier, 90% of the list is white males. 89,74%, technically. I'm going to assumed most of them are cis-gendered too. That's a lot worse than all numbers on diversity among gamers, whether you account for hardcore vs casual or not.

 

Come  to think of it, I can't think of any global sector that is that homogeneous

Edited September 22, 2014 by Meshugger

[Blarghagh]

So that makes them the exclusive boys club with the sign "no girls allowed" on the door, then? I feel like we should point out the patriarchy thread to them as a place where they might want to congregate.

[Fighter]

https://za.celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/emma-watson-delivers-stirring-speech-at-u-n-204442194.html

 

Guys here is an interesting read, I have even more respect for Emma Watson after seeing her efforts to highlight the campaign for gender equality

 

Very relevant when she said  

 

"I was appointed as Goodwill Ambassador for U.N. Women six months ago and the more I've spoken about feminism, the more I have realized that fighting for women's rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop."

 

"Feminism," Watson continued, "is, by definition, the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes."

 

How many times have I said that feminism doesn't mean you are a man-hater or that men must be marginalized ...Volo I hope you read this

 

Bruce we all know what the dictionary says. But the problem is in identifying said inequality and finding solutions that are fair. You can have all the best sounding motivation in the world but it is the how you go on about achieving your goal and the results of your efforts that can rightfully come to define your entire movement.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Fighter

[BruceVC]

 

https://za.celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/emma-watson-delivers-stirring-speech-at-u-n-204442194.html

 

Guys here is an interesting read, I have even more respect for Emma Watson after seeing her efforts to highlight the campaign for gender equality

 

Very relevant when she said  

 

"I was appointed as Goodwill Ambassador for U.N. Women six months ago and the more I've spoken about feminism, the more I have realized that fighting for women's rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop."

 

"Feminism," Watson continued, "is, by definition, the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes."

 

How many times have I said that feminism doesn't mean you are a man-hater or that men must be marginalized ...Volo I hope you read this

 

Bruce we all know what the dictionary says. But the problem is in identifying said inequality and finding solutions that are fair. You can have all the best sounding motivation in the world but it is the how you go on about achieving your goal and the results of your efforts that can rightfully come to define your entire movement.

 

 

Sure I agree and that's why you'll notice I don't call myself a feminist anymore. I say I believe in gender equality. But I wanted to highlight the fact that there is movement of people, like Emma,  who are aware of the negative perception around the word feminism. I just find it interesting that she wants to directly discuss that this word doesn't have to mean what some of you guys have come to say the word means

 

Anyway I'm not here to convince anyone anymore  about what the word means to them, I had a whole thread dedicated to that. This is more informational and for you to ponder when you are by yourself 

[licketysplit]

Yeah, like I posted earlier, 90% of the list is white males. 89,74%, technically. I'm going to assume most of them are cis-gendered too. That's a lot worse than all numbers on diversity among gamers, whether you account for hardcore vs casual or not.

 

Looks like Leigh Alexander isn't actually on it. Looks like she's still not allowed to play with the boys.

 

 

That's an altogether unacceptable gender gap. Looks like a certain group of people are afraid of wimmenz invading their hobby.

[Keyrock]

Two new articles by Milo about the journalist mailing list/forum/thingie.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/22/They-re-on-to-us-gaming-journalists-respond-to-their-critics-in-series-of-new-GameJournoPros-emails

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list

 

They had a hate thread for TotalBiscuit, and Ubisoft's marketing executive is in the mailing list.

 

These guys... they really have no idea whatsoever what professional journalism is.

I'm a bit out of the loop here.  Why was there a hate thread for The Cynical Brit?  What did Mr. Biscuit do to raise people's ire?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Two new articles by Milo about the journalist mailing list/forum/thingie.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/22/They-re-on-to-us-gaming-journalists-respond-to-their-critics-in-series-of-new-GameJournoPros-emails

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list

 

They had a hate thread for TotalBiscuit, and Ubisoft's marketing executive is in the mailing list.

 

These guys... they really have no idea whatsoever what professional journalism is.

I'm a bit out of the loop here. Why was there a hate thread for The Cynical Brit? What did Mr. Biscuit do to raise people's ire?

He made Phil Fish angry. Which is fairly easy to do.

[Volourn]

Emily Watson is #NOTYOURSHIELD: https://ca.celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/emma-watson-delivers-stirring-speech-at-u-n-204442194.html

 

  Sadly, she's stuck in the past when 'feminism' meant actual equality. Too bad she doesn't get that but at least she understands that the 'new' feminism is EVIL.

 

 

"I've spoken about feminism, the more I have realized that fighting for women's rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop."

"Feminism," Watson continued, "is, by definition, the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes."

 

Use a different word. Feminism is immoral and is dead and is anti men. Ms. Watson is an equalist. She should admit it.

 

Watch the whole video.

 

I don't agree with everything she says in her speech but it's better than the nonsense that Bruce and his online cohorts spam.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Volourn

[Malcador]

He wasn't frothing at the injustices done to Quinn, or something. I think some of their kind was on him for trying to be neutral, and being neutral in the face of misogyny means you condone it

[pmp10]

 

Two new articles by Milo about the journalist mailing list/forum/thingie.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/22/They-re-on-to-us-gaming-journalists-respond-to-their-critics-in-series-of-new-GameJournoPros-emails

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list

 

They had a hate thread for TotalBiscuit, and Ubisoft's marketing executive is in the mailing list.

 

These guys... they really have no idea whatsoever what professional journalism is.

I'm a bit out of the loop here.  Why was there a hate thread for The Cynical Brit?  What did Mr. Biscuit do to raise people's ire?

 

He criticized journalists for being anti-consumer.

On the whole he would take a pro-gamersgate stance if he dared.

[Amentep]

"I've spoken about feminism, the more I have realized that fighting for women's rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop."

"Feminism," Watson continued, "is, by definition, the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes."

 

Use a different word. Feminism is immoral and is dead and is anti men. Ms. Watson is an equalist. She should admit it.

 

Your line could be applied to current gamers-flap - "Use a different word. Gamers are immoral and are dead and are anti women."

 

So you're agreeing with the people who think "gamers" is a dead identity?

[kirottu]

 

Two new articles by Milo about the journalist mailing list/forum/thingie.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/22/They-re-on-to-us-gaming-journalists-respond-to-their-critics-in-series-of-new-GameJournoPros-emails

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list

 

They had a hate thread for TotalBiscuit, and Ubisoft's marketing executive is in the mailing list.

 

These guys... they really have no idea whatsoever what professional journalism is.

I'm a bit out of the loop here.  Why was there a hate thread for The Cynical Brit?  What did Mr. Biscuit do to raise people's ire?

 

 

 

He wasn't frothing at the injustices done to Quinn, or something. I think some of their kind was on him for trying to be neutral, and being neutral in the face of misogyny means you condone it

 

Milo is apparently showing those emails in chronological order and early on TB was indeed neutral. He only spoke against the DMCA takedown of the first MundaneMatt video.

[Volourn]

No, because the peopel twisting are such a minority they have no power of the word. As Watson explained, feminism is to tainted that even women are fleeing it en mass. 'Cause it is so now.

 

I don't know any woman (all 5 of them lol) who proudly claim themselves to be feminists but if you talk about equality theya re all for it.

 

However, talk to a fellow gamer none of them go 'oh that word is so bad." None of them are even aware of the online controversey.

 

Gamer still means gamer to 99% of the population outside of the racist and sexist few.

 

Feminism, on the other hand, is so hit or miss that you can't be sure what kind of 'feminist' you are talking about: 

 

When someone who plays games describes themselves as a gamer they literally mean 'i play games' not 'white manwho hates women and all other minorities' while a self described feminist can mean 'believe in true equality', 'hate men/embarassed to be a man' or even to the point that 'any intereaction with a man and a woman means the woman is being raped'.

 

So, try again, since you failed on your agenda.

[Amentep]

So, try again, since you failed on your agenda.

And what, pray tell, would that be?

 

I think the idea that the gamer identity is supposed to die is stupid.

 

I also think mischaracterizing feminism is stupid.

 

Personally, I see your stand as inconsistant since your argument isn't based on meaning or even intent of use but on a nebulous "how many people use it in the way described". Which I guess means that once 51% of the people start calling gamers white misogynists you'll be agreeing with the "gamers are evil" stance?

[BruceVC]

 

So, try again, since you failed on your agenda.

And what, pray tell, would that be?

 

I think the idea that the gamer identity is supposed to die is stupid.

 

I also think mischaracterizing feminism is stupid.

 

Personally, I see your stand as inconsistant since your argument isn't based on meaning or even intent of use but on a nebulous "how many people use it in the way described". Which I guess means that once 51% of the people start calling gamers white misogynists you'll be agreeing with the "gamers are evil" stance?

 

 

Yeah you right Amentep. And you and I have discussed this in the past around these exact words

 

The principle of the meaning of words needs to be consistent, you can't be selective when it suits you

 

Volo, its okay to admit you are wrong. No one will think less of you

[Volourn]

You two are tools of sexist feminists (yeah yeah I just called you sexist sexists). Don't be ignorant.  I'm not 'mischaracteruizing' feminism. Feminism doesn't even know what it means. Ask a feminist what they mean by calling themselves - you have multiple answers. Ask a gamer what they mean when claling themselves gamers you'll know the answer - they play games.

 

It's not confusing at all.

 

On top of that, feminism is inherently sexist just as masculine is.

 

I guess I should refer to strong woman as masculine right? That's rather sexist implying that to be striong you must be masculine. That's evil. That's the main reason wnhy I have an issue with the word feminism. If you take the idea that feminism = belief in equality it implies that in order to believe in equality one must be feminine which is sexist since it suggests that if one isn't feminine ie. a man you inherently don't believe in equality.

 

That is evil. I believe in equality, and I'm not feminine. PERIOD.

 

\Now, take your trolling elsewhere.

Capiche?

[licketysplit]

I have to agree with Volo. Gender equality, not feminism. The term has been poisoned beyond repair, time to call it something else.

[Malcador]

Well, an identifier for an ideology differs from a term for a hobbyist, especially when one intends for the term to be loaded with hidden qualifiers like Bruce does. If you mean loopy feminists though, just say loopy ones.

[BruceVC]

You two are tools of sexist feminists (yeah yeah I just called you sexist sexists). Don't be ignorant.  I'm not 'mischaracteruizing' feminism. Feminism doesn't even know what it means. Ask a feminist what they mean by calling themselves - you have multiple answers. Ask a gamer what they mean when claling themselves gamers you'll know the answer - they play games.

 

It's not confusing at all.

 

On top of that, feminism is inherently sexist just as masculine is.

 

I guess I should refer to strong woman as masculine right? That's rather sexist implying that to be striong you must be masculine. That's evil. That's the main reason wnhy I have an issue with the word feminism. If you take the idea that feminism = belief in equality it implies that in order to believe in equality one must be feminine which is sexist since it suggests that if one isn't feminine ie. a man you inherently don't believe in equality.

 

That is evil. I believe in equality, and I'm not feminine. PERIOD.

 

\Now, take your trolling elsewhere.

Capiche?

 

Actually Amentep and I have disagreed on this topic on several areas. He definitely doesn't share my view on all things related to SJ issues, the one thing we do agree on is  the meaning of words. Anyway consider what he is saying, he makes some valid points

[BruceVC]

Well, an identifier for an ideology differs from a term for a hobbyist, especially when one intends for the term to be loaded with hidden qualifiers like Bruce does. If you mean loopy feminists though, just say loopy ones.

 

I don't understand your point ? What do you mean by hidden qualifiers?

Edited September 22, 2014 by BruceVC