Don't complain about battles being too hard

[vril]

Most of the encounters are too easy and not tactically challenging enough.

 

Agree with this, sure they seem to difficult at first because we are coming into a new game with a 5th level party with a a couple dozen unique skills we don't know.  Once you take time to look over each classes skills and also understand the combat pace -- the battles move to the easy side.

[Niccolado]

Single player games for the last 10+ years have been notoriously too easy, and I am really looking forward to PoE providing a serious challenge. That said, if you find a battle is extremely difficult relative to other content within the same play-through, then give constructive feedback asking for a specific encounter to be better balanced.

 

There is a big difference between saying "It's too hard! Make it easier!", and "I think the difficulty of certain encounters needs to be better balanced for reasons x,y, and z".

 

You guys will regret it in the end if you keep asking for the game to be made 'easier' (I've seen this request many times throughout this forum). The game should be kept as challenging as possible!

 

Note: this only applies to difficulty settings above the 'easy' setting. IMO easy setting should be for people that just want to enjoy the story and dialogue without having to stress about being tactical in battle.

 

My problem seems to be that all mob encounters seems to be like a boss encounter. When I need to utilize all my spells for all my 5 characters and still the battle rages on for about 15 minutes, i think we can say the battles too hard. Or I am doing something horribly wrong - which I guess can be the very reason too. I am currently fighting guards in the Dyrford ruins. And whoa do they fight like bosses each and every one of em..

Edited September 8, 2014 by Niccolado

[Monte Carlo]

I agree with Niccolado but yet again this forum is likely to fall into binary mode - it's either an impossible boss fight or a trash-mob.

 

I'm not a mechanics person, but I do understand how encounter placement works. A good enemy encounter in a RPG can serve any number of functions, from combat indicator (hmmmm, you often get monster 'a' in synergy with monster 'b', do I have the right spells / weapons), attrition (the encounter is designed to weaken resource 'a' to make the next encounter that bit more challenging), to provoke a false sense of security (mwuahahaha this level is full of kobolds, let's relax!) or simply for flavour. There are of course lots of other reasons too.

 

So battles aren't simply boss fights OR trash mobs. I think the OP slightly missed that.

[Namutree]

Trash mobs were never lethal to a mid-level party in BG1/BG2; even if it was your first time playing. Now, even on easy mode; if you aren't careful those stupid beetles can wipe your team. If this remains the case exploration won't be as much about atmosphere and discovery as much as it will be about combat.

 

To those that think the trash mobs aren't tactically challenging enough: Trash mobs are NOT supposed to be challenging to a mid-level party! If a mid-level party has to take trash mobs seriously, the game isn't going to be exciting; it's going to be tedious. Trash mobs are NOT engaging; ever! Making trash mobs harder only takes away the little bit of fun they can provide while at the same time ruining exploration.

 

I'll put it this way:

 

When I fight a boss and they're easy; I get very frustrated.

When I fight trash mobs and they're not easy; I get frustrated.

 

Let the bosses and special battles be special by making them challenging. Not when I'm just trying to look around and some dumb bugs attack me.

[morhilane]

I keep reading these threads about difficulty and I can't understand how the hell I could go through the demo without a single character downing (i.e. losing all their stamina) the first time around and back then I didn't know that much about the game compared to what I do now. My tactic was "CC everything, use ranged weapons" and it worked pretty well against everything...

[Ink Blot]

I keep reading these threads about difficulty and I can't understand how the hell I could go through the demo without a single character downing (i.e. losing all their stamina) the first time around and back then I didn't know that much about the game compared to what I do now. My tactic was "CC everything, use ranged weapons" and it worked pretty well against everything...

I'm not sure how you managed to do that in every battle. Take the encounter with the Spider Queen, for instance. There are a number of spiderlings that mob rush you as soon as combat starts. I'm not aware of a spell or ability that will CC all of them as well as the Queenie and her 3 or so underlings without your party getting swarmed. And if you're swarmed while trying to fight with ranged weapons, you're gonne get butt-raped by regular attacks as well as poison. Maybe there are some CC spells/abilities I've not realized fully?

[Kjaamor]

I don't think combat is too hard.  I think combat is too buggy to tell if it's hard.

 

This. A Cipher can clear the map without taking a hit, apart from to enemies that have been made invincible by save/reloads increasing their deflection to unreachable levels.

 

That isn't easy or difficult, it's just a mess.

[Qiushui]

I don't think combat is too hard.  I think combat is too buggy to tell if it's hard.

 

Ideally easy would be easy, hard would be hard, and path of the damned would be, well, damned hard.  And, as much as possible, that difficulty should be consistent across fights and areas. 

Exactly. Consistency is what PoE is in dire lack. Combat is too rudimentary/buggy at this point to offer educated analysis on how easy/hard battles are right now.

[morhilane]

 

I keep reading these threads about difficulty and I can't understand how the hell I could go through the demo without a single character downing (i.e. losing all their stamina) the first time around and back then I didn't know that much about the game compared to what I do now. My tactic was "CC everything, use ranged weapons" and it worked pretty well against everything...

I'm not sure how you managed to do that in every battle. Take the encounter with the Spider Queen, for instance. There are a number of spiderlings that mob rush you as soon as combat starts. I'm not aware of a spell or ability that will CC all of them as well as the Queenie and her 3 or so underlings without your party getting swarmed. And if you're swarmed while trying to fight with ranged weapons, you're gonne get butt-raped by regular attacks as well as poison. Maybe there are some CC spells/abilities I've not realized fully?

 

 

The Spider Queen would be the big ass spider in the cave right. That one died super fast. I was a bit underwhelmed when it happened, I was expecting a boss fight. I might have hit a bug or was super lucky, I don't know. I didn't get swarmed and binding web, rogue's crippling strike and the Priest's Halt were super effective.

[Namutree]

 

 

I keep reading these threads about difficulty and I can't understand how the hell I could go through the demo without a single character downing (i.e. losing all their stamina) the first time around and back then I didn't know that much about the game compared to what I do now. My tactic was "CC everything, use ranged weapons" and it worked pretty well against everything...

I'm not sure how you managed to do that in every battle. Take the encounter with the Spider Queen, for instance. There are a number of spiderlings that mob rush you as soon as combat starts. I'm not aware of a spell or ability that will CC all of them as well as the Queenie and her 3 or so underlings without your party getting swarmed. And if you're swarmed while trying to fight with ranged weapons, you're gonne get butt-raped by regular attacks as well as poison. Maybe there are some CC spells/abilities I've not realized fully?

 

 

The Spider Queen would be the big ass spider in the cave right. That one died super fast. I was a bit underwhelmed when it happened, I was expecting a boss fight. I might have hit a bug or was super lucky, I don't know. I didn't get swarmed and binding web, rogue's crippling strike and the Priest's Halt were super effective.

 

Prepare for a lot of that. The bosses aren't any different from random fodder in terms of difficulty.

[Cantousent]

I played on normal, which probably meant to be easy for the grognards among us.  I only had one fpw that I can recall, which was the first time I met up with the beetles.  I did have several characters go down during battles, including the cultist boss where all but two of my characters went down. My PC was a mage and I hired a paladin.  I used her lay on hands quite a bit at first.  I did make many mistakes, but I think having a full party of six helped make up for my playing deficiencies.  I actively tried to use as many spells as possible, which meant spamming a full round of fireballs into enemies and then having them meet up with that pillar priest spell that has knockdown.  I don't think the game is too easy because for a lot of the people who've been playing the ie games for years, hard is probably normal but I agree with the folks who say that it's hard to know for certain until the bugs are gone.  Really, until the mechanics are relatively bug free, how can you balance an encounter in the first place?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

For some reason I was able to steamroll through the beta with a Monk, but Paladin and Cipher were difficult.

[Linkamus]

 

Single player games for the last 10+ years have been notoriously too easy

Yeah. ME2 on Insanity with imported saves (i.e. you start with crappy weapons vs. max level enemies) was really ....... easy.

 

/facepalm

 

 

I was talking in generalities. I'm not saying not a single challenging game has been released in the last 10 years. jeesh .

[Pray]

Is it hard because there is a large hurdle to overcome. or because we have to wade through interface failure and other crap?

[reavor]

battles feel a bit too easy currently. I've been playing above normal difficulty and have only lost a battle once, and that's because i basically just went in swinging and didn't bother to pause etc.

[Caladian]

I had issues at first then I really thought about party dynamics.  With me as a Paladin and my Hireling as a Chanter, I just got done steamrolling all of the crossing with only needing to take 2 rests (one after the spider queen and one one when I entered the underground area).  Interdiction is a very key ability, same with web, and the same with the priest's deflection buff spell.  Combine that with the Chanter flaming/def buff, I was able to easily steamroll the area.  You just need to be precise and setup your encounters wisely.

[Sensuki]

Chanters are OP, and 2 rests for an exterior, a small cave and a dungeon is still too much. What difficulty?

[archangel979]

Trash mobs were never lethal to a mid-level party in BG1/BG2; even if it was your first time playing. Now, even on easy mode; if you aren't careful those stupid beetles can wipe your team. If this remains the case exploration won't be as much about atmosphere and discovery as much as it will be about combat.

 

To those that think the trash mobs aren't tactically challenging enough: Trash mobs are NOT supposed to be challenging to a mid-level party! If a mid-level party has to take trash mobs seriously, the game isn't going to be exciting; it's going to be tedious. Trash mobs are NOT engaging; ever! Making trash mobs harder only takes away the little bit of fun they can provide while at the same time ruining exploration.

 

I'll put it this way:

 

When I fight a boss and they're easy; I get very frustrated.

When I fight trash mobs and they're not easy; I get frustrated.

 

Let the bosses and special battles be special by making them challenging. Not when I'm just trying to look around and some dumb bugs attack me.

When every battle is hard and special, nothing is special.

 

BG1 was 90% fighting easy trash mob enemies and that running into specially placed encounters that were hard and special. It made those encounters memorable.

[Caladian]

Chanters are OP, and 2 rests for an exterior, a small cave and a dungeon is still too much. What difficulty?

 

It was on Normal, I probably could have done it with only 1 rest but I tend to be a bit over zealous with healing.

[Fiebras]

Its a matter of learning the game system.

The beetles arent actually hard, its just you gotta manage your party positioning, agro and focus fire. The same with the spiders (hint-kill the big spiders first). And the same with the cultists. You need to learn the encounters and the enemy types.

Its just people are having a hard time because of DoTs and the "what is going on" stat of combat. Combat Clarity is needed.

 

I enjoy every combat not being just wiping the floor with the enemy. I enjoy no-thrash mobs. I enjoy a bit of a struggle. And I enjoy that its likely I will need to use some daily spells in conjunction with per-encounter spells/abilities. I much prefer it to just autoattacking everything and resting without having used a single spell. I enjoy feeling that I do need to optimize my gear a bit and one way if acknowleging that is to have encounters I cant just mop up without a care in the world. Those are my opinons and tatstes and I can understand others not sharing them.

 

Also, what happened to the desire to overcome a challenge? Do you really want just a passive mmo grind fest? Ok thats being binary as MC said but I do feel like people are basing their opinions too much on "Its too hard because *I* cant do it!". Its probably untrue but thats just the feeling I get from some coments. Or maybe this isnt your idea of a challenge or maybe some dont want a challenge. Thats fine. Theres many difficulty options thankfully (though I dont think setting the game to impossible difficulty were the only thing changed are numbers and number of enemies constitutes a challenge).

 

I TPK like 4 times on the Spider Queen and loved it. But thats just me and I understand if people want an easier time for feeling of empowerment or whatever reason.

 

When every battle is hard and special, nothing is special.

I respectfully disagree.

If every battle is challenging and the challenge is scaled/managed properly its a pretty fun experience. Difficulty helps set the tone of the game. It makes combat feel more like combat. Im just going to be lazy here and point to Dark Souls and Demon´s Souls and say "like that!" in terms of design.

Also BG did not have that many thrash mobs (Ankegs anyone?) and there was always the posibility of you going into a high level area and have a real hard time if you didnt know what you were doing (and since everyone here is basically a BG expert of course the game is much easier in your minds).

[Monte Carlo]

Fiebras you are being a bit binary. You like extra tough challenges constantly, which is fine (indeed the options allow you to do that with bells on) but most people prefer their road-bumps in varying sizes and frequency. As I said above, combat encounters should provide numerous types of challenges beyond life-or-death uber-struggle.

[PrimeJunta]

I'm with MC and Indira on this one. Spiking challenge rules. Uniform challenge gets dull fast, regardless of whether it's uniformly easy or uniformly hard.

[Ink Blot]

Also BG did not have that many thrash mobs (Ankegs anyone?) and there was always the posibility of you going into a high level area and have a real hard time if you didnt know what you were doing (and since everyone here is basically a BG expert of course the game is much easier in your minds).

Conversely, there was also the possibility of wandering into an area and wiping the floor with the mooks (Xvart village comes to mind), but with a surprisingly difficult challenge as a possibility as well (the traveling merchant just west of the Xvart village, if you decided to take him on - and to a lesser extent, the bear).

 

I don't think every single encounter needs to be a big challenge. There have to be some that make you feel like "Yeah, I'm so badass I can take you mooks out with a good fart". Otherwise you're getting into scaled encounter territory, which I personally hate.

[Sylvanpyxie]

So I just decided to test run the Monk class and cleared the entire Dyrwood Crossing, not including the indoor areas, without resting or stopping for breath so that's something I guess....

 

In other news - Monk auto attack damage OP as funk.

[Fiebras]

@ MC: I can agree with the road bumps aproach but Ill also say that every person will have diferent interpretation of road bumps. But yeah theres a difficulty slider for a reason so that should be enough for most people, me included.

 

@ Ink Blot: I agree there should be varying levels of dificulty. The thing is we dont know what the easy or hard encounters are yet. We got a very small sampling here, so we can make asumptions with it. My personal hope is that normal encounters are like the beetles and cultists, easy encounters are like the Wolfs, whiping the floor encounters like the wurms ( maybe a bit harder) and hard encounters are like the Spider Queen and Ogre while optional really hard encounters are like...well, I dont know.

I share your hate for hate for scaled encounters. I also hope the trash mobs are rare and I feel more of a badass after taking on a difficult enemy than just mowing mooks, but thats just me.

 

@Sylvanpixie: what difficulty setting were you on?