Pretty disappointed, this launches in December?

[PrimeJunta]

Obsidian is giving us something much different than what they promised.

 

No they're not.

[PrimeJunta]

They did also lay out in considerable detail what they felt constitute an "IE game spiritual successor." First in the initial pitch, then in the updates over the course of the campaign.

 

As I said, it's remarkable how little they've drifted from what they described there.

 

It is not reasonable to expect them to adhere to your personal interpretation of what the IE successor ought to be.

 

Being disappointed, feeling that they missed the mark, feeling that it's not fun, and so on is a different matter altogether. Helm isn't saying tha though. He is flat-out claiming this:

 

Obsidian is giving us something much different than what they promised.

 

That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie.

[Helm]

 

Obsidian is giving us something much different than what they promised.

 

That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie.

I see you are in denial mode once again. Numerous people (even in this thread) have already stated that this game doesn't feel like an IE game. Even those who actually like this ludicrous game.

 

Anyway, please be so kind and point out where Obsidian promised us a stealth simulator with completely optional combat, an absurd XP system that doesn't reward the player accordingly for his achievements (=quest XP only), a completely borked RPG system that suffers from cookie cutter syndrome and impotent attributes et. al, regenerating health and all of the other stuff that has been mentioned endless times on these forums.

 

They did also lay out in considerable detail what they felt constitute an "IE game spiritual successor." First in the initial pitch, then in the updates over the course of the campaign.

 

As I said, it's remarkable how little they've drifted from what they described there.

That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Helm

[PrimeJunta]

@Helm,

 

You're making a big, potentially even actionable claim here: that Obsidian has reneged on their promises.

 

Which promises? Please point out the specific, concrete promises they have made during the KS from which they have deviated.

 

Specific. Vague generalities like "the IE feel" do not qualify, because they involve a lot of subjective judgment. Also, it is unreasonable to judge the "feel" of a game before it has been polished and balanced, since it is an emergent property of how the various bits and pieces in the game fit together.

 

Here, let me help: you can't, because there aren't any. That, Helm, is why you lie. You have no actual facts to base your vitriol on, so you're reduced to lying about Obsidian, about its lead designer, and about the game. (And about me, for that matter -- that I'm lying about going over the KS and comparing what they've done to what they've promised.) That's pretty sad, really.

 

(For the record, in my opinion the P:E beta does not have "the IE feel" at this point. However, the second build is already a lot closer than the first, and I am quite optimistic that it may get there by release. However, even if in my opinion the game did not have "the IE feel" by release, it would still not mean Obsidian had reneged on their promises. All it would mean is that my opinion about what "the IE feel" is differs from theirs. It should be blatantly obvious that the only way to make a game that undeniable has "the IE feel" would be to make it in the IE engine, and we all know that wasn't going to happen. That means the judgment is necessarily subjective. Sheesh, do I really have to even explain this?)

Edited September 5, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[Matt516]

Anyway, please be so kind and point out where Obsidian promised us a stealth simulator with completely optional combat...

 

Not going to get into it with your main point because PrimeJunta already seems to have that covered, and I don't personally see much point in arguing it tbh, buuuut....

 

PoE? A stealth simulator? Thief. Mark of the Ninja. Dishonored. Deus Ex. Gunpoint. Metal Gear Solid. Even Jagged Alliance 2! These are stealth games, or games with stealth as a significant component. Have you played any of these games? Do you know what a stealth game is? I don't mean to sound rude, but c'mon now! Of all your accusations, this is perhaps the strangest. PoE is not a stealth game. Not even close. If it were it would be a godawful one. There's no line of sight, sound, searching mechanics, etc... just circles with different radii based on a skill.

 

Just because you feel that combat is optional in many places in PoE because it can be bypassed with "stealth" does not mean that PoE is a "stealth simulator". That's not helpful criticism. It's trolling. And it won't make the devs take your other (many legitimate) criticisms seriously.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Matt516

[Zierry]

I actually enjoying beta, especially after latest patch and i cant wait for full game. Only problem i see is sound and music which is more like Arcanum then IE games. Dont forget this important part of atmosphere.

[Caladian]

Seriously people, the more you feed Helm, the more he will enjoy it.  Just ignore his posts and move on.  He made this moniker to troll, and guess what, he is succeeding.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Why don't you move on Caladian? You seem quite obsessed with coming into threads to tell others to ignore him.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[bonarbill]

Seriously people, the more you feed Helm, the more he will enjoy it.  Just ignore his posts and move on.  He made this moniker to troll, and guess what, he is succeeding.

Agreed.  He's already on my ignore list because I got sick of his crap.

[Silverbarr]

I'm actually getting quite frustrated, really love the theory behind the Cipher class and have been trying to play one in the BB. He gets into melee and if he ends up with any aggro ends up annihilated! For a class that seems to be melee-orientated with an emphasis on mentalist abilities it's incredibly disappointing.

 

Any casters or ranged characters that I want to initiate combat with - like in many encounters of IE games, end up having the enemy bee-line (in some cases teleporting directly onto them) and being annihilated.

 

The recovery system feels slow and sluggish, the health/stamina system just doesn't make the game play any better and in fact feels detrimental.

 

Abilities having random colours associated with them unlike abilities/spells in the IE games which definitely felt clearer in whether they were beneficial (aka buffs, etc.) or damaging. With too many AoE abilities/spells which affect everyone, these abilities should be powerful if they affect everyone and not your everyday common abilities and spells.

 

Now I'm a true lover of IE games, and have played them multiple times but I'm sadly finding this BB to be increasingly frustrating in in a lot of cases just not as fun as the potential should allow.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Silverbarr

[Stun]

Seriously people, the more you feed Helm, the more he will enjoy it.  Just ignore his posts and move on.  He made this moniker to troll, and guess what, he is succeeding.

He made a point in his last post. Where's yours?

 

By the way, some people here seem to think that all it takes for a game to be a spiritual successor to the IE games is to have an Isometric camera view, a 2d look, and be party based.

 

But the IE games were Much More than just that so maybe we can stop sticking our heads in the sand on this topic already.

[Zierry]

 

Seriously people, the more you feed Helm, the more he will enjoy it.  Just ignore his posts and move on.  He made this moniker to troll, and guess what, he is succeeding.

He made a point in his last post. Where's yours?By the way, some people here seem to think that all it takes for a game to be a spiritual successor to the IE games is to have an Isometric camera view, a 2d look, and be party based.But the IE games were Much More than just that so maybe we can stop sticking our heads in the sand on this topic already.

What are IE games? Be more specific. People are talking about feeling but everyone has different feelings.

[Stun]

 

 

Seriously people, the more you feed Helm, the more he will enjoy it.  Just ignore his posts and move on.  He made this moniker to troll, and guess what, he is succeeding.

He made a point in his last post. Where's yours?By the way, some people here seem to think that all it takes for a game to be a spiritual successor to the IE games is to have an Isometric camera view, a 2d look, and be party based.But the IE games were Much More than just that so maybe we can stop sticking our heads in the sand on this topic already.

 

What are IE games? Be more specific. People are talking about feeling but everyone has different feelings.

 

The IE games are RPGs that had unmatched party-based gameplay. And that party-based gameplay was neither limited to combat roles, nor was it watered down by the need for uniformity. That is to say, you could still *feel* the different classes outside of combat, as they all had non-combat roles baked into them. But there's no such feeling to be found in PoE. Outside of combat, the classes are irrelevant. Non combat skills have nothing to do with classes.

 

This is a sharp departure from the very *core* of the infinity engine game design. And it is intentional. Josh prefers a classless system and you can feel that preference in PoE. It's not the least bit masked by the classes he did give us.

 

 

And then we've got the bajillions of little things that have already been discussed ad nausium on this forum, which taken individually don't mean much, but when piled all together end up making PoE feel like something else Entirely from any IE game ever conceived.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Stun

[Wintersong]

 

What are IE games? Be more specific. People are talking about feeling but everyone has different feelings.

And that's why this is problematic to fulfill such promises.

 

And that's why people should be more open minded (to a point!). Everybody has their own "IE feeling" definition. The less broad and more specific your definition is, the more likely you are to be dissapointed. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to have a very specific definition of the "IE feeling" for you. But throwing money at a nebulous "IE feeling" appeal and then expect it to fullfill your specific definition, it's a huge gamble.

 

Once released, we will be able to truly compare the result to our "IE feeling". Meanwhile, some stuff may still change.

[Bill Gates' Son]

All of the IE games had a lot of major differences.  To say there is only one true definition of the IE feeling is asinine.  

Edited September 5, 2014 by Bill Gates' Son

[Seari]

The IE games are RPGs that had unmatched party-based gameplay. And that party-based gameplay was neither limited to combat roles, nor was it watered down by the need for uniformity.

****ing this.

[Seari]

All of the IE games had a lot of major differences.  To say there is only one true definition of the IE feeling is asinine.  

We're taking the best aspects of each game. PS:T=story+dialogue. If we're talking about combat, then it's only logical that we talk about BG2 and IWD2(a sack of ****), the IE games that had the best combat.

 

Don't know why I'm even responding to this, your statement is annoying or maybe it's the Jan Jansen avatar.

[khermann]

 

 

The IE games are RPGs that had unmatched party-based gameplay. And that party-based gameplay was neither limited to combat roles, nor was it watered down by the need for uniformity.

****ing this.

Hard to disagree with this perspective.

 

Also I fail to see hiw Helm qualifies as a troll. He makes salient observations and I haven't seen any personal attacks. He's allowed to have his opinion, but cheerleaders get easily confused when their biases are challenged and everyone who hurts their fanboy must be a troll?

 

The net game is the same: ignore him because you can't handle it or offer a cogent aegument, but don't fool yourself into thinking that's Helm's problem.

Edited September 5, 2014 by khermann

[Infinitron]

The game definitely feels like an IE game, but it doesn't feel like AD&D.

 

I'd recommend coming into it from Icewind Dale 2.

[Zierry]

For me combat never was too important. What is now in PoE beta is usable enough. When we are talking about party it means companions like Minsc or Viconia for me.

[Seari]

The game definitely feels like an IE game, but it doesn't feel like AD&D.

 

I'd recommend coming into it from Icewind Dale 2.

I'd recommend coming into it from NwN2.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Seari

[Infinitron]

 

The game definitely feels like an IE game, but it doesn't feel like AD&D.

 

I'd recommend coming into it from Icewind Dale 2.

I'd recommend coming into it from NwN2.

 

 

Well, no, because then you'd be used to having a hotbar and other such post-WoW amenities. Also, less party members to manage.

 

It's definitely a game by the lead designer of Icewind Dale 2.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Infinitron

[Seari]

Well, no, because then you'd be used to having a hotbar and other such post-WoW amenities. Also, less party members to manage.

 

It's definitely a game by the lead designer of Icewind Dale 2.

 

Well that's a shame, IWD2 is a mediocre sack of ****.

 

edit. Ok, that's a bit harsh, they did have limited development time.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Seari

[Sarex]

The game definitely feels like an IE game, but it doesn't feel like AD&D.

 

I'd recommend coming into it from Icewind Dale 2.

 

I did come in to it from IWD2 (my favorite IE game) and I still can't understand why half of the things were done. Also the atmosphere of PoE is nowhere near that of IWD2, though that could be due to the fact that we don't start the game from the beginning. I won't even go in to the combat system which in it's current form is sub-par, not even comparable to IWD2.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sarex

[IndiraLightfoot]

Seari: Still the first fourth of the game had some very nice combat, even strategically. You must keep in mind that they made the entire game in eight months, so it's a miracle really. Story-wise, options, branching, plot, there you had the gashing wounds in it here and there. It's still a very nice game, although more of a dungeon crawl, like ToEE (which is equally great for what it is).

Edited September 5, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot