Stamina/health display

[Waywocket]

In the known issues, they mentioned that a lot of people find the system unintuitive. I think that this could be improved to some extent by simply swapping the way they're displayed; it seems strange that stamina is represented by a growing red bar of doom, whereas a character's actual life is represented by a small green bar that doesn't look so important - more like a mana bar that happens to be green.

 

Health is more important in this game than in most others, since it's harder to get back, so I think it should be that that gets the big red warning display.

On the other hand, given its rapid regeneration, I feel that stamina is more like a resource, and should be displayed in a way that's more like resource bars in other games; it also probably shouldn't be red (or green), as red and green are colours that are usually reserved for showing health. Right now it's hard to describe what exactly the red means - 'lack of stamina'? I'm calling it 'exhaustion'.

 

Assuming that the way the system works remains unchanged, my alteration to the UI for it would be that health is the red bar covering the portrait, and it would start form the bottom - in both cases because that's familiar to a wide number of players, and I think more intuitive that red represents damage more than exhaustion. I'd put the stamina bar where health currently is, very slightly wider to emphasise it a touch more, and not green:

 

 

Thoughts, anybody?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Waywocket

[IndiraLightfoot]

I reckon that's a pretty neat idea! Thanks for sharing.

[philby]

cool! I'm actually finding it confusing in combat when looking at enemies, I would much prefer a simple red bar on top of the enemy and have it display 54/81 health or something when I hover over them.

[Cabamacadaf]

Yeah, I was really confused at which was which at first, so they probably should do something about it.

[Prometheus]

I think it's bad idea to switch it. In most of the fights I don't care about my health, Imo Stamina is more important in a single fight. Looking at the stamina bar of 6 characters would be difficult with the red fill it's easier to see if somebody needs healing.

[Caerdon]

Hmm... I think I have to disagree here.

 

Yes, health is more important overall, but stamina is generally more urgent, and that, to me, is reason enough to associate stamina with the blood. The green health bar is still very visibile, it's not easy to miss that one of your characters is on low health.

 

Also, while I was initially surprised that the blood flows from the top this time, it's consitent with the health bar - they progress to the same direction. It'd only be confusing if one goes up and one goes down. (Also: blood flows downwards, it's only natural! )

[Sensuki]

I go into this a little bit here in my video: 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67075-sensukis-suggestions-003-main-ui-tooltip-stuff-with-video/

 

There's also no health number display on the character tooltip, and there's no mouse over tooltip on the health bar.

[Waywocket]

Yes, health is more important overall, but stamina is generally more urgent, and that, to me, is reason enough to associate stamina with the blood. The green health bar is still very visibile, it's not easy to miss that one of your characters is on low health.

 

Hmm, you think? I tend to place a fairly high value in conforming to expectations in UI design, even if that would leave the resulting UI slightly sub-optimal (though never to the extent of being severely sub-optimal), so I'd tend to go for the option that seems the most normal, and least surprising - especially in a situation where the player is having to learn a whole load of new mechanics at the same time. You could be right though that it works out better once you're used to it; I'll see how I feel about this after playing some more.

[Cabamacadaf]

I think the stamina works pretty well as it is, but the health really needs to be more visible.

[Waywocket]

Okay, I've played a few more hours, and I think more than ever that these are displayed the wrong way round. It's not just me - see for example http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66770-first-impressions-thread/page-11?do=findComment&comment=1484588

 

Fundamentally, stamina is a very different thing from health, and the red bar just looks so much like it should represent damage that I don't think the current way health and stamina are shown conforms to almost anybody's initial expectations.

[Valorian]

If these two were reversed we'd be constantly strolling around with bloody portraits. 

[Waywocket]

If these two were reversed we'd be constantly strolling around with bloody portraits. 

You mean like in BG/BG2/IWD/IWD2/PS:T(sort of)? I don't think so, because in practice right now you play until your fighter has no health left and then you're forced to rest, so you'd really only have one bloody portrait, and arguably you really ought to if you're wandering around that close to death.

[Maviarab]

+1 for this idea.

[Shakyr]

After playing last night for a little bit, I agree that they should stay how they are. It makes more sense to me, to have the Stamina as the main one, displayed as blood over the portrait.

But I guess you will always have people who like it one way, and others who like it the other way.

The only thing that confuses me somewhat (and that I think needs changing), is the section you've marked on your image as exhaustion. If the character has 100% stamina, they should not have any blood over their profile.

[morhilane]

I like the OP suggestion. Actually, I first I though the red decal was health and stamina was the green bar and I was all confused because the priest spells were healing the red but talked about recovering stamina only.

Edited August 20, 2014 by morhilane

[TigrisW]

I vote this idea and also is good Obsidian think about more how this part can be more intuitive. It must have very clear what happen and when you or enemies are near to die. Now it is very much more messy than BG1/BG2/IWD1/IWD2 and them are old games... Excample in Di:OS it is very clear.

[Corto81]

Quite honestly, I don't like the stamina/health system, it's very messy and unintuitive and unecessarily overcomplicated.

Simple HP system has worked for every game in RPG history, I don't see a need to change it.

 

But... As it is, it's unlikey they'll change it, so at least fine-tuning it would be nice.

Right now, it's lacking... Both in design and in feedback (tooltips etc.).

[Elzarath]

Quite honestly, I don't like the stamina/health system, it's very messy and unintuitive and unecessarily overcomplicated.

Simple HP system has worked for every game in RPG history, I don't see a need to change it.

 

But... As it is, it's unlikey they'll change it, so at least fine-tuning it would be nice.

Right now, it's lacking... Both in design and in feedback (tooltips etc.).

Nail. Head.

 

Just have the health/HP mechanic and the red starting from bottom up of character portrait - perfect! (Could also make ranger / animal companion easier to manage)