The final marketing drive - looking for a mainstream audience? Target the MOBA crowd

[Sensuki]

We were just having a discussion over at the RPGCodex and I've been noticing that Josh has been posting that the Con-goers at Gamescom haven't really been applying tactics while playing Pillars of Eternity - just using select all and auto attacking.

 

Personally I think if you (Obsidian) want to sell this game to new gamers, you need to find the right audience and in my opinion - that is the MOBA crowd, the people that are interested in tactical real-time combat and micromanagement.

 

I think that one bridge to cross would be the difference in art style between the popular games like DotA 2 (and even worse, League of Legends) but the MOBA crowd has the most players out of any genre in PC gaming at the moment, so if even a fraction of the players were interested, you'd be doing alright.

 

Most MOBAs revolve around the control of a single unit in a real-time combat, although DotA has several heroes that have pets and can summon units (along with items that grant summons too) - Nature's Prophet can summon treants, Lone Druid has a Dire Bear, Meepo replicates himself, Phantom Lancer and Naga Siren have illusions, Chen and Enchantress can dominate creeps. Many heroes use the Manta style to create illusions, the Necromonicon to summon two powerful Skeleton Warriors or the Helm of the Dominator to dominate a creep.

 

I personally think DotA players would be your best shot (I say this because League of Legends is a more casual MOBA and I don't think it has as many (if any) heroes that use summons), but going for both markets would be wise.

So if you (and Paradox) were going to be doing any targeted marketing - those communities is where I would focus my efforts.

 

Of all of my friends that I've managed to get interested in the game - it's the people that used to play the Infinity Engine games like I did, and the guys that play DotA 2.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Sensuki

[Valorian]

MOBA players enjoy:

 

 

A) Competing against other players (multiplayer).

 

B) Doing so in real time.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Another huge crowd to throw some PR at is the D3 crowd. I've managed to turn three teenage relatives into playing D:OS - there are plenty of ARPG players that wish for more RPG, less hectic RT decisions, and just have the tactical side to deal with and enjoy. Also, they get more character customization and levelling choices.

[Sensuki]

A) Competing against other players (multiplayer).

I assure you that there are boatloads of people who play single-player and Multiplayer

 

I've probably played more multiplayer over the last 6 years than single-player, but I've always played both and as I'm growing older, I'm playing less multiplayer, but that's mostly due to the fact that most competitive MP games these days are crap.

[Valorian]

 

A) Competing against other players (multiplayer).

I assure you that there are boatloads of people who play single-player and Multiplayer

 

I've probably played more multiplayer over the last 6 years than single-player, but I've always played both and as I'm growing older, I'm playing less multiplayer, but that's mostly due to the fact that most competitive MP games these days are crap.

 

 

I should have probably clarified that, naturally, enjoying HoN/Dota/LoL as a multiplayer game doesn't mean that people who play such game cannot enjoy a single player game.

[Ganrich]

Yeah, I am in the same boat as Sensuki.  I play both MP and SP, and I am leaning more and more toward single player as I get older.  Which sucks because it seems alot of Publishers are moving toward very multiplayer catalogs, but it is what it is.  I am happy with Indie if that is what I get relegated to playing.  Anyway, I know a few hard core Moba players, and they are all gamers.  Some are like CoD players in that they only play that Moba or CoD, but many are just gamers and the Moba just holds their interest more.  They play their Moba of choice between other game releases and fall back after they beat whatever game just came out.  Or after they burn out on that games MP. 

 

I think hitting Moba players is a good idea though, but I would also hit blizzards fan base as well.  What I always loved about the IE games was that they were something inbetween an RTS and a TB RPG.  They sat in this wonky middle-y, grey area.  Some single player Starcraft, Warcraft, and Diablo fans might bite.  As is equally likely they could snag some Moba players.  I think looking toward players that first experienced the Rtwp gameplay with Dragon Age would be worth levying some marketing toward as well.  There are people that prefer the combat in DAO yet never played the IE games.  I know a few. 

[Billy O]

 

I think hitting Moba players is a good idea though, but I would also hit blizzards fan base as well.  

 

This, especially Hearthstone players. That is a community that really appreciates a lot of planning, strategy and tactics in a game.

[Trodat]

I think this is a pretty good suggestion. Dota players generally like deep mechanics and challenging gameplay. Dota has a lot of younger kids playing so they probably aren't aware of games like this.

[Karranthain]

Not a bad idea, PE might appeal to them at some level (focus on tactical combat, isometric perspective, RPG elements etc.).

 

At the very least they'll probably be able to connect with it easier than the ARPG crowd.

[BrokenMask]

Wait what

 

People play mobas for singleplayers?

Since when?

[Infinitron]

Well, the first and foremost "mainstream audience" that Obsidian needs to target for marketing is Bioware and Dragon Age's 3-4 million strong fanbase. But I guess that goes without saying.

[Sensuki]

MOBAs have between 20-60 Million players between them, but sure.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Sensuki

[BrokenMask]

...Yeaaaaaaaaah, thats not gonna happen. Bioware's rpgs are heavily streamlined and lots of Bioware's vocal fanbase seem to have obsession with romance for some reason.

 

Personally I feel like they should just keep targeting the core audience. The games that target "mainstream" audience outside of their core audience tend to do really badly. Either at expense of game or at expense of credibility.

 

Anyway, isn't Paradox in charge of marketing anyway?

 

And in case of MOBAs' "20-60 million" thats bit wide margin since you are talking about whole genre of games. And, for example, its not like all LOL players play DOTA. So how you would attempt to target that large amount of people on basis they play at least one game in huge genre?

Edited August 15, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Sensuki]

I was just putting that information there for Infinitron.

 

Do you play MOBAs?

 

Obsidian have made it clear that they want to try and attract new gamers to this game, even though it is being designed for it's core audience.

 

I think a lot of modern RPG players play the game for the story, and a lot of modern RPGs are action-combat games. I think not trying to grab some of the MOBA crowd with the marketing budget would be throwing money away.

[Billy O]

Have they said how many copies of PoE they hope to sell? I know they said there were almost 80k backers and some have bought multiple copies. I would think another 100k should be attainable after release.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Billy O

[BrokenMask]

Either way, MOBA audience is kinda bad idea

I mean, MOBAs aren't really rpgs, they are rts where you play as single powerful characters and can equip items and gain better skills over the course of match.

And they aren't "just" competitive either, they are team based. They are heavily based on teamwork which results in really toxic environment where people have really short tempers because they can tell whether game is lost right from the start if one member of team is really bad when compared to opposite team

 

I haven't really ever heard of anyone who plays MOBAs singleplayer and they definitely aren't the majority. Besides, MOBA players aren't looking for story either...

 

It would be better idea to attempt to capture people interested in story and choices in general instead of targeting fans of single genre or fans of single developer

[NWN_babaYaga]

hmm... i dont backed a game that right at the beginning of the beta changes any direction at all or audience to target. How do you target a "new" audience with a game that is in beta phase without lies and deception ? Someone has to explain me how that works on a honest level.

 

I think that would be a total failure of reputation. Old school RPG players backed that game the most i guess and thats the crowd to please. IF teeny romancers and other genre gamers come here... there problem not ours!

 

So the idea is not good at all and I´m sure obsidian is not stupid enough to change what was good to just mainstream or whatever. I also think this game was not about profit but what Obsidian wanted to do and WE BACKERS supported. Not anything else...

Edited August 15, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[Sensuki]

I think that's a very short sighted view of the MOBA audience, and more representative of the absolute trash-bag tiers of the games.

 

I'm not the best DotA player, I think my MMR is somewhere in the 3700s, I don't play it very often, but even in the "trenches", a 5-0 at the start of the game is not GG, and anyone with any gumption will try and come back from that. Usually there's one defeatist blaring over the mic, sometimes that's even me, but a negative attitude will only make it worse. So it's better to try and take command and come back.

 

As I've previously mentioned, the MOBA genre has a large fanbase, and while not everyone will be interested in a single-player RPG, some people will because they enjoy that style of combat, and also enjoy SP games for relaxation.

 

The other side of the coin is that you can try and target the RPG crowd for the story and whatnot, but if the combat mechanics aren't their cup of tea, that might be a problem.

 

@NWN_babaYaga

 

I am not talking about changing anything in the game. I am talking about the "marketing drive". There will be a marketing campaign for PE leading up to release, and I think some targeted marketing towards the MOBA crowd would be a good idea to try and find the 'new' PE audience of non-IE players, as I believe that is one of Obsidian's goals.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Sensuki

[Ganrich]

@BrokenMask Yeah, sorry, but I don't see Bioware's fanbase as black and white like that.  I use to be among them, and romances were never my favorite thing.  There were a few that i liked, but mostly because they were executed in a way that kind of serviced the story (Kotor).  I just enjoyed what Bioware was trying to do pre-EA buyout.  They were trying to bridge the gap between action games and RPGs, and they have.  It sucks they have faultered in their ability to do what made me enjoyed them.  Tell a relatively simple, but fun and cohesive, yarn.  I still think they could pull people from dragon age's fanbase.  Perhaps even Kotor.  There is a reason I was specific about the game, though.  As DAO is Bioware's go at a spiritual successor to the same game that PoE is a spiritual successor to.  Seems sensible you might have potential customers there.

 

Obsidian should have a check box in the options for removing the pause feature, and challenge all Moba players to beat the game without pausing. 

[sibakruom]

MOBAs are mostly free to play. It's easy to get people to give a game a look if that doesn't cost them anything, but it's another story if they have to pay. And as been noted multiple times already, MOBAs are a mix of competition-cooperation with other players, which PoE lacks. That's a huge divide between the two genre.

At the end of the day, the best way to have a bigger audience is to make a good game and give it adequate exposure over the whole gaming sphere. People want to play good games, nothing more, nothing less.

[nikolokolus]

Well, the first and foremost "mainstream audience" that Obsidian needs to target for marketing is Bioware and Dragon Age's 3-4 million strong fanbase. But I guess that goes without saying.

 

"Where's my Waifu?" I can already see the never ending stream of thread topics scolling across my browser window faster than I can hit F5.

[Malekith]

I think Sensuki's idea is very good. The core audience for this game is the people that played the old IE games. That's not gonna change. But from the groups of people that haven't played the IE games, MOBA's and Blizzard's audiences are the ones more likely to like this kind of gameplay.

From the "story and C&C" audience there are what? Obsidian's own audience (which i believe it's already captured), CDPR's (which a huge portion won't like it because it's not an ction game, not Witcher 2 graphics) and Bioware's ( a huge portion won't like it because not an action game, no waifus). The people among these audiences that would be interested in PoE i believe for the most part already know about this game and the game is easy to market to them.

 

But as far as presentation and gameplay goes, MOBA's and Blizzard's audiences are the one's that will like it more. Sure, hardcore PVP player's won't care, but that's only a small part of the MOBA's fanbase as Sensuki says.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Malekith

[Ink Blot]

I find it amusing how you brush off all of BioWare's rather large fanbase because of 'no waifus' (as if the majority of the fanbase is only interested in that), and CDProject's because the majority are assumedly action game fans (where does this assumption come from?) Yet you think the MOBA fans will flock to PoE in numbers? I personally fail to see the connection between this game and MOBAs.

 

I hate to say it, but if Obsidian/Paradox want to grab some decent numbers for the game when it's released, then all they need is decent exposure on Steam. There's a huge captive audience there and plenty of them will be interested in this game. *edit* What I mean is they probably don't need to target a specific section of the game-playing audience such as MOBA players, COD players, BioWare fans, etc.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Ink Blot

[Sarex]

I personally think DotA players would be your best shot (I say this because League of Legends is a more casual MOBA and I don't think it has as many (if any) heroes that use summons), but going for both markets would be wise.

So if you (and Paradox) were going to be doing any targeted marketing - those communities is where I would focus my efforts.

 

Of all of my friends that I've managed to get interested in the game - it's the people that used to play the Infinity Engine games like I did, and the guys that play DotA 2.

 

The difference between the two is in the pacing of the game, not in complexity. As for summons LoL has it's fair share of them 6-7. You are coming from a place of ignorance with these comments.

[Karkarov]

Not sure I would use the term "Moba" and the word "tactical" in the same sentence.  They rarely require tactics beyond "don't do something stupid like fighting 3 other guys alone".  They are just about min maxing, builds, micro management, and twitch skills. 

I agree with Ink Blot, if you want to market this at a large gamer audience target Dragon Age fans (who should naturally be interested hopefully) and or people discovering Divinity Original Sin.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Karkarov