The state of Feminism, the good the bad

[Chilloutman]

Equalist then guys?

 

anyway I am not one of you. I would say that I dont treat womens equaly. I open doors for them, I help them with heavy objects, I buy them flowers, I think they should not work in mines, clear sewers, showel brahmin sh*t on the field. But I dont do the same for men. Yeah I am target no.1 for feminists. But hey, didnt hear from any lady I treat like that any complain.

 

Equality is bullcrap. Always was and I hope always will be (otherwise I am done with sex)

 

now you can rock me to death

Edited August 14, 2014 by Chilloutman

[Naurgalen]

 

"Men are discriminated against in the work place, what do you mean?"

 

Read stories about daycares or preschools and how men are dealt with there as just ONE example.

 

 

"How is feminism sexist?"

 

For starters, the name itself suggests that to believe in equality one must be 'feminine' therefore implying the opposite that masculinty = the belief in non equality. How  is that not sexist?

 

It's like when someone uses 'sissy' or 'stop acting like a girl' as some sort of putdown. It's nto any different.

 

I have tried to explain this to  you several times  and I'm clearly failing, I'll try one more time

 

In the English language we use dictionaries to determine the meaning of words. For example if you think the word "arrogant" means happy you are wrong and it doesn't matter what  your personal experiences are or what you think the work "arrogant " means, it doesn't mean happy. This is irrefutable and cannot be debated

 

I listed the definition of feminism from two of the  main English dictionaries, Oxford and Merriam-Webster, and it doesn't mean sexist and it doesn't men are discriminated against. It means "the advocacy for the equal rights of women"....I  am battling to understand why you cannot understand this simple fact ?

 

 

 

You are forgetting:

 

1) The connotations that words have

2) Language is in constant change: words mutate and are created based on culture, so dictionaries are always a little behind in the new "trends"

3) Where you live change things too: In my country the woman harassment is very different to what I have seen in other country's. Here mans are 90% of the time trying to "seduce" womans (sometimes for real, but most of the time for show off) and verbal/physical  aggression is really strange.

 

Now about the thread: Discrimination is always wrong, it doesn't matter if its about sex, age caste or whatever. Its 100% truth that we are not equal, but that doesn't mean there are better humans than others: we are just different, with advantages and disadvantages on different things. Even the most intelligent, strong and wise man can´t progress alone very far. We understand that we need others (even when sometimes people forget or believe that they are superior), and that's what makes us humans instead of a group of animals.

[BruceVC]

Actually the semantics started on page one.

 

But yeah, I always hesistate before calling myself a feminist. I prefer to say that I am pro gender equality. Most people see "feminist" and read "feminazi" or "white knight".

 

Its funny you say that but about 3 weeks ago I was talking to this girl at a bar and I said "I'm a feminist, do you care about the struggle for gender equality" ( the truth is she was arrogant and I could tell this would annoy her ) anyway she said to me " you should speak to my friend, she cares about feminism " ( I knew she was being sarcastic ) so I went to her friend and said "hi, your friend told me you care about feminism" ....she gave her friend this annoyed look and said to me " well I will have to have a chat to her about that "

 

 

It was quite funny , and made me laugh

 

Anyway I'm going to birthday party tonight where there will be several ladies I know who take the issue of gender equality seriously. I'll ask them what they think about someone who says they are feminist and if the word has negative connotations

 

I'm only doing this because if someone like you, who I consider a liberal and a reasonable person, also doesn't use  the word feminist, even though you espouse the values, maybe my intention to keep using the word is misplaced.

 

I'll give feedback later

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

"This is your interpretation of the word and this is simply wrong"

 

It's a real world interpretation.

 

Kirottu wins.

Have to side with Volo here. And if you must use a dictionary, I'd even posit that urban dictionary is probably even more relevant than M-W or Oxford.

 

The word feminism has so much negative stigma associated with it that those championing the gender equality cause need to pick a new word.

Humanist then?

 

Anyways, I do find it odd that most SJWs I have encountered are up in arms about generally attractive women in media but are often mum when it comes to rights of women in non-western nations. Then again, said SJWs probably want to have the secks with the group they are whiteknighting for more than those silly brown folks.

[BruceVC]

Here's a point for you to consider Bruce,  think about how a lot of guys act with other guys. With their male friends, with the banter and casual insults, the serious conversations and the sexual put downs of each other used in joking fashions (I'm not saying that's a completely standard style of behaviour, but it's a general overview of a lot of classic male bonding).   

 

Now consider that a fair few feminists demand equal treatment, that they shouldn't receive any different behaviour for being a woman. Yet if a guy acts in that same manner to a woman that he would to another man, he tends to be called sexist. So they still want you to treat them differently, it's just the type of behaviour they want changed.

 

That is changing somewhat, society is shifting in a lot of ways. Just look at the groups of "laddish" girls in the UK. They go support soccer, drink pints down the pub, cheerfully insult each other and men around, and have no problem getting drunk and flashing strangers. Just like a lot of drunken loutish men do. So, technically, isn't that equality? They're behaving the same, they react the same way, they treat each other in similar manners.

 

The thing is, is that necessarily a good thing in that manner?

 

Yeah you make some good points, but just because I say I am a feminist it doesn't mean I  forget my manners around my lady friends or tell inappropriate jokes. I do open doors for ladies and pay for the first meal on a date. But I get what you are saying

[Chilloutman]

 

Here's a point for you to consider Bruce,  think about how a lot of guys act with other guys. With their male friends, with the banter and casual insults, the serious conversations and the sexual put downs of each other used in joking fashions (I'm not saying that's a completely standard style of behaviour, but it's a general overview of a lot of classic male bonding).   

 

Now consider that a fair few feminists demand equal treatment, that they shouldn't receive any different behaviour for being a woman. Yet if a guy acts in that same manner to a woman that he would to another man, he tends to be called sexist. So they still want you to treat them differently, it's just the type of behaviour they want changed.

 

That is changing somewhat, society is shifting in a lot of ways. Just look at the groups of "laddish" girls in the UK. They go support soccer, drink pints down the pub, cheerfully insult each other and men around, and have no problem getting drunk and flashing strangers. Just like a lot of drunken loutish men do. So, technically, isn't that equality? They're behaving the same, they react the same way, they treat each other in similar manners.

 

The thing is, is that necessarily a good thing in that manner?

 

Yeah you make some good points, but just because I say I am a feminist it doesn't mean I  forget my manners around my lady friends or tell inappropriate jokes. I do open doors for ladies and pay for the first meal on a date. But I get what you are saying

 

HAHA now you got me Bruce, do you realise that by paying that bill you degradet that poor girl? She is not good enough to pay on her own? You pig

Edited August 14, 2014 by Chilloutman

[BruceVC]

 

 

Here's a point for you to consider Bruce,  think about how a lot of guys act with other guys. With their male friends, with the banter and casual insults, the serious conversations and the sexual put downs of each other used in joking fashions (I'm not saying that's a completely standard style of behaviour, but it's a general overview of a lot of classic male bonding).   

 

Now consider that a fair few feminists demand equal treatment, that they shouldn't receive any different behaviour for being a woman. Yet if a guy acts in that same manner to a woman that he would to another man, he tends to be called sexist. So they still want you to treat them differently, it's just the type of behaviour they want changed.

 

That is changing somewhat, society is shifting in a lot of ways. Just look at the groups of "laddish" girls in the UK. They go support soccer, drink pints down the pub, cheerfully insult each other and men around, and have no problem getting drunk and flashing strangers. Just like a lot of drunken loutish men do. So, technically, isn't that equality? They're behaving the same, they react the same way, they treat each other in similar manners.

 

The thing is, is that necessarily a good thing in that manner?

 

Yeah you make some good points, but just because I say I am a feminist it doesn't mean I  forget my manners around my lady friends or tell inappropriate jokes. I do open doors for ladies and pay for the first meal on a date. But I get what you are saying

 

HAHA now you got me Bruce, do you realise that by paying that bill you degradet that poor girl? She is not good enough to pay on her own? You pig

 

 

Nah

 

I'm believe in old fashioned manners when it comes to those types of things, but I have no issue with her paying for the next meal if she wants to

[Chilloutman]

I am sorry but then you are not feminist, you are whiteknigh who is profiting from 'defending' womens, not feminist

[Blarghagh]

Equalist then guys?

 

anyway I am not one of you. I would say that I dont treat womens equaly. I open doors for them, I help them with heavy objects, I buy them flowers, I think they should not work in mines, clear sewers, showel brahmin sh*t on the field. But I dont do the same for men. Yeah I am target no.1 for feminists. But hey, didnt hear from any lady I treat like that any complain.

 

Equality is bullcrap. Always was and I hope always will be (otherwise I am done with sex)

 

now you can rock me to death

 

 

EQUALITY NOW! EQUALITY NOW!

 

Seriously, though: I don't mind gender roles personally. But I do mind it if people get treated like crap or are told they can't do something they want to do for no other reason than the pair of genitals they were born with. I feel the same way about men, by the way. For example, I think it's shameful how easily women can keep perfectly good fathers away from their children after divorce because men simply do not have the same rights in that case. As far as I'm concerned, taking on a gender role should be a choice, not a requirement. I would never dislike a girl simply because she doesn't want to have children, but I would also not dislike a guy who wants to be a homemaker. What I want when I think about gender equality is that people can make choices without society making it harder for them just because the choice doesn't conform to that gender role.

Edited August 14, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Gfted1]

I wish I could be a homemaker. My wife makes enough money but every time I bring it up she just laughs at me.

[Volourn]

"Its funny you say that but about 3 weeks ago I was talking to this girl at a bar and I said "I'm a feminist, do you care about the struggle for gender equality" ( the truth is she was arrogant and I could tell this would annoy her ) anyway she said to me " you should speak to my friend, she cares about feminism " ( I knew she was being sarcastic ) so I went to her friend and said "hi, your friend told me you care about feminism" ....she gave her friend this annoyed look and said to me " well I will have to have a chat to her about that " :lol:"

 

They thought you were using it as a pick up line.

[mkreku]

...feminism is not about the marginalization of men, its about ensuring gender equality.

 

You keep saying this. Can you give me an example when feminists have advocated for a better life for men?

 

In Sweden, three times as many men commit suicide than women.

 

In Sweden, twice as many women graduate from a higher education compared to men (approximately, I forgot the exact number, but you get the picture).

 

In Sweden, women gets much better grades in school than men.

 

In Sweden, a man is four times more likely to be physically abused than a woman.

 

In Sweden, three times more men are murdered each year than women.

 

These facts are pretty much the same throughout every country in the western world, although the numbers vary slightly. How many times have you heard a feminist mention any of these things? At least in Sweden, feminists work to end violence against women (as an example). Specifically women, even though this problem is much, much bigger among men. Why is that if equality is what they seek?

[Volourn]

L0L male problems L0L

[HoonDing]

 

Actually the semantics started on page one.

 

But yeah, I always hesistate before calling myself a feminist. I prefer to say that I am pro gender equality. Most people see "feminist" and read "feminazi" or "white knight".

 

Its funny you say that but about 3 weeks ago I was talking to this girl at a bar and I said "I'm a feminist, do you care about the struggle for gender equality" ( the truth is she was arrogant and I could tell this would annoy her ) anyway she said to me " you should speak to my friend, she cares about feminism " ( I knew she was being sarcastic ) so I went to her friend and said "hi, your friend told me you care about feminism" ....she gave her friend this annoyed look and said to me " well I will have to have a chat to her about that "

 

At least there is still strip bar/hostess club/escort service.

[Orogun01]

 

...feminism is not about the marginalization of men, its about ensuring gender equality.

 

You keep saying this. Can you give me an example when feminists have advocated for a better life for men?

 

In Sweden, three times as many men commit suicide than women.

 

In Sweden, twice as many women graduate from a higher education compared to men (approximately, I forgot the exact number, but you get the picture).

 

In Sweden, women gets much better grades in school than men.

 

In Sweden, a man is four times more likely to be physically abused than a woman.

 

In Sweden, three times more men are murdered each year than women.

 

These facts are pretty much the same throughout every country in the western world, although the numbers vary slightly. How many times have you heard a feminist mention any of these things? At least in Sweden, feminists work to end violence against women (as an example). Specifically women, even though this problem is much, much bigger among men. Why is that if equality is what they seek?

 

The thing is that they got gender roles working for them, after all is easy to believe that they're damsels in distress.

 

[Bester]

I don't know what to contribute other than women are shallow and spendthrift egoists.

 

I hope I helped.

[Walsingham]

Having just completed a review of neuropsychological material on male-female differences in basic cognition I'd love to partciipate.

 

But I just remembered that I'd be debating with people who use the term 'feminazi', and in conclusion: **** off.

[Gfted1]

So your entire contribution to the conversation is to say that you wont be contributing to the conversation?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Anyways, I do find it odd that most SJWs I have encountered are up in arms about generally attractive women in media but are often mum when it comes to rights of women in non-western nations. 

 

Or maybe they just don't want to play white savior?

[Malcador]

So your entire contribution to the conversation is to say that you wont be contributing to the conversation?

Nah, he took a snipe at some people, that's something!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Anyways, I do find it odd that most SJWs I have encountered are up in arms about generally attractive women in media but are often mum when it comes to rights of women in non-western nations.

Or maybe they just don't want to play white savior?

As opposed to male savior?

 

*chuckle*

[NWN_babaYaga]

Feminism also created a whole new class of people... they are called gender theologists. They gather in the univeristy and do nothing else as to sit around in a confortable room with couches and vegetarian food and talk about things like "we have 12 genders" ... yes right 12 gender types or more. And these gender theorie studies burn money very well. You have an esotheric new theory that dont need any biology or "logic involved" because you can all create out of nowhere. Just theories that are now welcomed in out ministrys of education. And soon you have gender language and gender music. People doing nothing else as to censor or rewrite books so they are gender good for children, teens and us adults. The main point of gender is censorship! you will see and remember my words that in the next 10 years the gender police will censor alot!

 

I forgot to add that our protestant church have gender theories now welcomed too. No more Adam and eve and genesis in the christian religion but gender. That is the new age christianity of the protestants. There were never any Logic in the church and now you have no logic either. It´s the same as always. Logic and common sense has no value for esotheric egocentric weirdos.

 

If you think this is a joke yes it is. But it´s a serious joke because our society will change because of these pseudo theories called gender. Mainstream gender will make our children into mentaly disturbed things because they just dont know what they are? You can be anything now.

 

I can be a 1/8 male female female male male female male female!

 

Now you think i make that up right ? Inform yourself about gender and the people who are pushing that and how far it is already forced into our politics. It´s a dictate from the UN. Hear me! This stuff came from the UN and right down into every western country ! EXcept georgia...

 

One has to think about how can a gathering of none important females force that thing into the whole world ? noooo.... that is not an accident believe me... that was very well planed and it´s not for the good of our society. History teaches us that every single thing that was FORCED upon the people never had a good influence at all for the ordinary people. But no one asked how the hell did they accomplished that ? Who helped them ? No agenda noooooo....

Edited August 15, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[Walsingham]

So your entire contribution to the conversation is to say that you wont be contributing to the conversation?

 

Only because I'm too tech illiterate to vomit over people on the internet.

[Valmy]

I am not exactly sure what Feminism is.  I know there are some feminists who I think have beautiful ideas and I support and ones who are horrible and I think are bigots.  Supposedly these people both belong to the same ideology yet their ideas could not be more different.

 

I will see things that say things like:

'Feminism is the radical belief that women are human beings' 

 

Which, you have to admit, is a pretty big tent for an ideology.

[Orogun01]

"Which, you have to admit, is a pretty big tent for an ideology."

 

Have you heard about this guy Jesus?