Is this racist?

[BruceVC]

http://www.women24.com/News/EWN-cartoon-deemed-racist-ANC-says-it-is-an-insult-to-voters-20140530

 

So some of you guys think that at times I over-analyse issues of social justice and sometimes highlight problems where problems don't exist. I understand that even if I don't agree all the time. I have explained that due to the history of the country I live in and my personal experiences I do take issues of social justice seriously

 

 

Anyway I want to share with you and get your opinions on some of the issues around social justice that we deal with in South Africa on a weekly basis. Yesterday a prominent media outlet posted a cartoon basically suggesting that the ANC, our current ruling political party, are clowns. You can see the cartoon in the link I posted and you can read about the incident

 

You don't need to know the exact history of the politicians in the cartoon but needless to say they haven't done very good jobs in there portfolios. There has been a huge outcry from people and mostly black South Africans suggesting that the cartoon is profoundly racist and wanting the cartoonist to be fired.

 

The media outlet has apologized for any hurt caused and the whole incident has been referred to a Media Ombudsman for review and possible further action.

 

So what do you guys think, is the is type of cartoon acceptable?

[IndiraLightfoot]

The ministers as clowns-bit is certainly acceptable. The crux is the voters in the bottom right corner. Not only are they being called "poephols" ("a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s" in Afrikaans). They are clearly black, and then with that clown face paint - they come across as black-face cartoons, which don't go down well at all, given those kinds of cartoons place in history). All in all, I think the cartoonist took it too far, and it certainly borders on racism, However, a sincere apology should be enough. A crowd with torches and pitchforks calling for the sacking of the editor and the cartoonist is just over the top, methinks.

Edited May 30, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[TrashMan]

If you ask me, almost everything is acceptable.

 

People everywhere need to grow a thicker skin and stop acting like the entire world revolves around their oh-so-precious feelings.

[IndiraLightfoot]

If you ask me, almost everything is acceptable.

 

People everywhere need to grow a thicker skin and stop acting like the entire world revolves around their oh-so-precious feelings.

Ideally, I agree with you. But there are a few symbols that are simple too charged to just do a laissez faire on it all.

[BruceVC]

The ministers as clowns-bit is certainly acceptable. The crux is the voters in the bottom right corner. Not only are they being called "poephols" ("a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s" in Afrikaans). They are clearly black, and then with that clown face paint - they come across as black-face cartoons, which don't go down well at all, given those kinds of cartoons place in history). All in all, I think the cartoonist took it too far, and it certainly borders on racism, However, a sincere apology should be enough. A crowd with torches and pitchforks calling for the sacking of the editor and the cartoonist is just over the top, methinks.

 

You make some reasonable points and yes the issue is more about how the voters are portrayed. People don't like being called ignorant for voting for the ANC and the cartoon shows them in a demeaning light. But good perspective

[JadedWolf]

Okay, let me play devil's advocate here. I will admit that I may not see all the nuances in this cartoon, so perhaps for someone with a more South African perspective there is more offensive stuff in this cartoon then I can see. But would you say this cartoon is worse than say, the Danish cartoon that caused a lot of outrage among muslims? The one that very few people in the west thought needed an apology, and that was defended on the grounds that even if we didn't agree with the message itself, most of us felt that the cartoon maker was free to publish in the name of free speech?

 

I don't see the clowns cartoon to be any more or less offensive. Stereotypes and exaggerations are exactly what these kinds of cartoons thrive on. If a cartoonist wants to draw a Turk they give him a fez and a mustache, if they want to draw a Dutch girl she's going to wear wooden shoes, a silly hat and possibly smoke a joint. And you can certainly imagine that these kinds of stereotypical images will cause offense to some people.

 

So the question is where to draw the line. If we accept that these kinds of cartoon will always cause offense, do we start to make exceptions? Do we say, well, we can make fun of everyone - but not of these guys, that would be too much?

 

And personally, I am wondering how much of ANC's rage is actually directed at the perceived racism, and how much about the fact that they don't like what the cartoon actually said about what they were doing.

[Malcador]

Well, not surprised that there's outrage on Twitter.

[BruceVC]

Okay, let me play devil's advocate here. I will admit that I may not see all the nuances in this cartoon, so perhaps for someone with a more South African perspective there is more offensive stuff in this cartoon then I can see. But would you say this cartoon is worse than say, the Danish cartoon that caused a lot of outrage among muslims? The one that very few people in the west thought needed an apology, and that was defended on the grounds that even if we didn't agree with the message itself, most of us felt that the cartoon maker was free to publish in the name of free speech?

 

I don't see the clowns cartoon to be any more or less offensive. Stereotypes and exaggerations are exactly what these kinds of cartoons thrive on. If a cartoonist wants to draw a Turk they give him a fez and a mustache, if they want to draw a Dutch girl she's going to wear wooden shoes, a silly hat and possibly smoke a joint. And you can certainly imagine that these kinds of stereotypical images will cause offense to some people.

 

So the question is where to draw the line. If we accept that these kinds of cartoon will always cause offense, do we start to make exceptions? Do we say, well, we can make fun of everyone - but not of these guys, that would be too much?

 

And personally, I am wondering how much of ANC's rage is actually directed at the perceived racism, and how much about the fact that they don't like what the cartoon actually said about what they were doing.

 

That's a very insightful post jadedmeister and I agree with most of it.

 

IMO the outrage from ANC supporters is more around the criticism on how they have been governing the country than the fact it is racist. But they are embellishing the racist element. To be clear the cartoon is not saying black South Africans are clowns, they are saying the people who voted in the ANC are clowns. Yes its not a nice thing to say but its a political cartoon and as you mentioned cartoons do present a caricature of people they represent.  What the cartoonist should have done is include some white faces in the picture of the voters then there would have been less of a furore

 

And I also think the global outrage due to the Danish cartoons was overdone and uncalled for

Edited May 30, 2014 by BruceVC

[JadedWolf]

I just noticed I wrote "then" when I meant "than". I'm going to grammar hell.

[Meshugger]

Within what framework are we working here? Within the South African constitutional law or in the moral domain? Because i am only interested in the latter.

[Orogun01]

First of all Twitter thinks everything is racist, Secondly I don't see the danger of one cartoon. It usually takes a massive amount of propaganda 24/7, government support and the silent of other views for a cartoon to be considered dangerous. Even then its just part of a greater whole with a sinister purpose.
So it offends people, the question should be: "Is it right?"

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

No.

[Walsingham]

The story here isn't a racist cartoon.

 

The story is how the governing party is taking the history of oppresion and death in South Africa, and using it as a 'get-out-of-jail'.

 

That's offensive.

[BruceVC]

Within what framework are we working here? Within the South African constitutional law or in the moral domain? Because i am only interested in the latter.

 

Within the SA constitution its not illegal at all, we have free speech enshrined in our constitution. And no offensive words were used. This would be a debate around the morals and principles of acceptable journalism. Because this issue has become an argument where people say " its racist and unacceptable that a media house allows such a cartoon to get on there website"

[Orogun01]

 

Within what framework are we working here? Within the South African constitutional law or in the moral domain? Because i am only interested in the latter.

 

Within the SA constitution its not illegal at all, we have free speech enshrined in our constitution. And no offensive words were used. This would be a debate around the morals and principles of acceptable journalism. Because this issue has become an argument where people say " its racist and unacceptable that a media house allows such a cartoon to get on there website"

 

Look at it this way, if you censor hateful and offensive speech you might go on thinking that some people you meet are decent when in reality they are a bubbling pot of anger, misogyny and racism. Let them reveal their character so that you can freely oppose them.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Within what framework are we working here? Within the South African constitutional law or in the moral domain? Because i am only interested in the latter.

 

Within the SA constitution its not illegal at all, we have free speech enshrined in our constitution. And no offensive words were used. This would be a debate around the morals and principles of acceptable journalism. Because this issue has become an argument where people say " its racist and unacceptable that a media house allows such a cartoon to get on there website"

 

Look at it this way, if you censor hateful and offensive speech you might go on thinking that some people you meet are decent when in reality they are a bubbling pot of anger, misogyny and racism. Let them reveal their character so that you can freely oppose them.

 

 

That's a very good point, it makes sense to understand who is opposite you  on certain issues. Nice one

[Walsingham]

perhaps a more nuanced approach would be to suggest that this was an issue which deserved an editorial, not a cartoon.

[Labadal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0q9PjM4FCU

[HoonDing]

"Is this racist?"

 

No.

[Meshugger]

 

 

Within what framework are we working here? Within the South African constitutional law or in the moral domain? Because i am only interested in the latter.

 

Within the SA constitution its not illegal at all, we have free speech enshrined in our constitution. And no offensive words were used. This would be a debate around the morals and principles of acceptable journalism. Because this issue has become an argument where people say " its racist and unacceptable that a media house allows such a cartoon to get on there website"

 

Look at it this way, if you censor hateful and offensive speech you might go on thinking that some people you meet are decent when in reality they are a bubbling pot of anger, misogyny and racism. Let them reveal their character so that you can freely oppose them.

 

 

Pretty much, yeah.

[AGX-17]

As part of the vast majority of humanity that is not South African... What?

 

I don't get it.

 

Race isn't even a factor to me, what is this supposed to mean? I've seen bad political cartoons in my time, but this is just incomprehensible. You need to provide context for the vast majority of humanity which does not know/care about South Africa's very existence.

Edited May 31, 2014 by AGX-17

[Oerwinde]

Yeah, just looking at the cartoon it didn't appear racist to me. I may be off base, but my underatanding is that the racism card is pulled quite often by incompetent black south africans against white south africans when their incompetence is pointed out to them.

[BruceVC]

Yeah, just looking at the cartoon it didn't appear racist to me. I may be off base, but my underatanding is that the racism card is pulled quite often by incompetent black south africans against white south africans when their incompetence is pointed out to them.

 

Yes this does happen from some ANC politicians. They claim the media is involved in an orchestrated campaign to undermine there efforts and they claim the media is biased. But the reality is the media is only doing its job and raising systemic issues of corruption and lack of good governance and accountability

[Bryy]

The story here isn't a racist cartoon.

 

The story is how the governing party is taking the history of oppresion and death in South Africa, and using it as a 'get-out-of-jail'.

 

That's offensive.

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

 

 

If you ask me, almost everything is acceptable.

 

People everywhere need to grow a thicker skin and stop acting like the entire world revolves around their oh-so-precious feelings.

Nope, sorry, trying sounding smarter somewhere else.

[teknoman2]

if you put things in perspective, democracy's major strength is also it's biggest flaw: in a democracy the people get the government they deserve, no better and no worse!

so if the government is made of clowns, then the people who voted them into office are also clowns... plain and simple.

now if 90% of the people of a country are black, then i do not see how social parody can be racist for depicting black people in a comical way... for all we know the guy who made the picture could be black