ShadySands Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 If it is considered to be racist if a white guy made it then is it not still racist if a black guy made it instead? Serious question. Does the content change based solely on the skin color (or sex or religion) of the creator? Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) if you put things in perspective, democracy's major strength is also it's biggest flaw: in a democracy the people get the government they deserve, no better and no worse! so if the government is made of clowns, then the people who voted them into office are also clowns... plain and simple. now if 90% of the people of a country are black, then i do not see how social parody can be racist for depicting black people in a comical way... for all we know the guy who made the picture could be black You make some good points, just for the record 80 % of the South African population is black. The biggest opposition party to the ANC in South Africa is called the Democratic Alliance (DA), I vote for them, and since the end of Apartheid they are the only political party that has been gaining votes in every election. And they have only been gaining votes because more and black South Africans are starting to vote for them. Especially the growing black middle class. The ANC relies on lots of support from the rural black communities in South Africa. They won the last election we had 2 week ago where they received about 62 % of the eligible vote. Now that may sound like a landslide but the ANC has actually been steadily losing support as time has gone on. Especially in the provinces in South Africa that contribute about 85 % to the total economy of the country, these provinces are the Western Cape and Gauteng But the ANC is fortunate because many of there supporters still vote for them because of ideological loyalty, they don't vote for them because of success or failures of the ANC. But this dynamic is changing as more and more people don't believe the ANC is the right political party to transform and uplift the economy Edited May 31, 2014 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) If it is considered to be racist if a white guy made it then is it not still racist if a black guy made it instead? Serious question. Does the content change based solely on the skin color (or sex or religion) of the creator? Funny enough in my country that is a factor, there are numerous examples of black journalists making controversial statements about the ANC and not getting criticised. But if a white journalist says something controversial the reaction is normally much worse. But that's something we accept due to our history and the sensitivity we are aware of around race relations Edited May 31, 2014 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 If you ask me, almost everything is acceptable. People everywhere need to grow a thicker skin and stop acting like the entire world revolves around their oh-so-precious feelings. Nope, sorry, trying sounding smarter somewhere else. Death to Voltaire! Death to the enlightment! We have a new King! "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedWolf Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Death to Voltaire! Death to the enlightment! We have a new King! Meshugger, I think you better sit down for a bit. I have something I need to tell you, and it's not good news. It's about Voltaire... 1 Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Personally I can't tell, I was recently insulted for being an Englishman and accused of being thus a fascist, despite the large amount of my family whom died in the second World War. However I just laughed it off as the ranting of a bigot, as the gentleman had allready proven himself to be by introducing himself with insults and condemning a whole group based on a few individuals comments. I may not have the correct victim mindset to be able to judge, then again this runs in the family, while my great uncle was being tortured after capture in Burma he always said he would never give his tormentors the satisfaction of seeing himself as a victim. Strange and complex business. 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 Death to Voltaire! Death to the enlightment! We have a new King! Meshugger, I think you better sit down for a bit. I have something I need to tell you, and it's not good news. It's about Voltaire... "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 Personally I can't tell, I was recently insulted for being an Englishman and accused of being thus a fascist, despite the large amount of my family whom died in the second World War. However I just laughed it off as the ranting of a bigot, as the gentleman had allready proven himself to be by introducing himself with insults and condemning a whole group based on a few individuals comments. I may not have the correct victim mindset to be able to judge, then again this runs in the family, while my great uncle was being tortured after capture in Burma he always said he would never give his tormentors the satisfaction of seeing himself as a victim. Strange and complex business. That's both an interesting and concerning story Nonek. Are you prepared to share more details like where did this happen and under what circumstances, what ethnic group attacked you and what do you mean by "few individuals comments".. is this something the BNP said? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Death to Voltaire! Death to the enlightment! We have a new King! Meshugger, I think you better sit down for a bit. I have something I need to tell you, and it's not good news. It's about Voltaire... Touché! "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Personally I can't tell, I was recently insulted for being an Englishman and accused of being thus a fascist, despite the large amount of my family whom died in the second World War. However I just laughed it off as the ranting of a bigot, as the gentleman had allready proven himself to be by introducing himself with insults and condemning a whole group based on a few individuals comments. I may not have the correct victim mindset to be able to judge, then again this runs in the family, while my great uncle was being tortured after capture in Burma he always said he would never give his tormentors the satisfaction of seeing himself as a victim. Strange and complex business. That's both an interesting and concerning story Nonek. Are you prepared to share more details like where did this happen and under what circumstances, what ethnic group attacked you and what do you mean by "few individuals comments".. is this something the BNP said? It was SusurrusParadox on the SJW thread (wonder what happened to that?) Bruce, but as I said I found the gentleman laughable and nothing to be concerned about. I've been called a white (excuse my language) bastard before on the street, and still felt nothing but mild amusement, if I felt anything more i'd be allowing the abusers undue importance. Or i'm just an emotionless shell of a man? Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 You live in London, don't you? I couldn't imagine anywhere else in Britain a white guy would be called that. On the other hand, i find it cute when people try make fun of the color of your skin. Cracker? White bastard? White Devil? The last one sounds even a bit bad ass. Maybe it's that what irritate them the worst; they can say whatever they can, but they cannot verbally hurt someone white for being white. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) You live in London, don't you? I couldn't imagine anywhere else in Britain a white guy would be called that. On the other hand, i find it cute when people try make fun of the color of your skin. Cracker? White bastard? White Devil? The last one sounds even a bit bad ass. Maybe it's that what irritate them the worst; they can say whatever they can, but they cannot verbally hurt someone white for being white. I commute into London and walk the last few miles, a bit of extra cardio to offset the chair bound nature of work. There are ethnic ghettoes all across England however where Englishmen are rather rare, and certainly not welcome, in the north where my wife comes from there have been large influxes of foreign nationals for the last half century or so*. There are also native villages whose make-up has not really changed since the recording of the Domesday book however, and personally I wouldn't be deterred from walking through any, my ancestors have shed blood and liberty to assure my rights and safety. The finest insult i've personally heard was "Blue eyed devil," I felt remarkably empowered. *As opposed to London which is historically an international hub and a multicultural city whom no one race can claim, not even the English due to the union. Edited May 31, 2014 by Nonek Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 You live in London, don't you? I couldn't imagine anywhere else in Britain a white guy would be called that. On the other hand, i find it cute when people try make fun of the color of your skin. Cracker? White bastard? White Devil? The last one sounds even a bit bad ass. Maybe it's that what irritate them the worst; they can say whatever they can, but they cannot verbally hurt someone white for being white. The big racial slur against white people now is Racist. Because most white people get pretty offended at being called racist, and despite studies showing modern white countries being the most tolerant on earth, there is still this stupid idea that only white people can be racist. The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 You live in London, don't you? I couldn't imagine anywhere else in Britain a white guy would be called that. Birmingham The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 Personally I can't tell, I was recently insulted for being an Englishman and accused of being thus a fascist, despite the large amount of my family whom died in the second World War. However I just laughed it off as the ranting of a bigot, as the gentleman had allready proven himself to be by introducing himself with insults and condemning a whole group based on a few individuals comments. I may not have the correct victim mindset to be able to judge, then again this runs in the family, while my great uncle was being tortured after capture in Burma he always said he would never give his tormentors the satisfaction of seeing himself as a victim. Strange and complex business. That's both an interesting and concerning story Nonek. Are you prepared to share more details like where did this happen and under what circumstances, what ethnic group attacked you and what do you mean by "few individuals comments".. is this something the BNP said? It was SusurrusParadox on the SJW thread (wonder what happened to that?) Bruce, but as I said I found the gentleman laughable and nothing to be concerned about. I've been called a white (excuse my language) bastard before on the street, and still felt nothing but mild amusement, if I felt anything more i'd be allowing the abusers undue importance. Or i'm just an emotionless shell of a man? Sadly that thread was closed down, but it offered some of the most interesting debates we have had in ages. Maybe you and I should start a another one dedicated purely to SJ issues? I thought Paradox shook up the forums nicely with his perspective and I'm not referring to his suggestion that you and other members were knuckle dragging caveman. It was his opinion on matters like how lady gamers feel they are victims of abuse that was interesting and why they are justified in wanting there own space Also I was about to engage in a very important discussion with you at the time around the point " white, heterosexual males are not typically or historically victims of discrimination" I was going to ask you several pertinent questions around this topic but then the thread was closed "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I think every white male peasant in history would disagree with you there, old boy. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedWolf Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Oh no, not this discussion again... Toot toot. All aboard the guilt trip train! 1 Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 Oh no, not this discussion again... Toot toot. All aboard the guilt trip train! I have to be honest and admit if you think that the reason I raise issues of social justice is to make anyone feel guilty then I have utterly failed to explain my various points properly I need to obviously try harder, discussions about social justice are only about awareness and you then decide if you want to do something about a particular issue, they are not about guilt at all "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) 'Social justice' is people trying to 'balance the books' without the faintest idea of what is in the balance or what it weighs? How much is a ten years of 'being denied the vote' measured against a ten years of 'given third tier schooling'? Is 10 minutes of 'children throwing rocks at you' more or less heavy in the balance? How many years of 'sitting one different bus seats' would you need to balance all three? It's gibberish. Edited June 1, 2014 by Walsingham 1 "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undecaf Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I need to obviously try harder Please don't. 3 Perkele, tiädäksää tuanoini!"It's easier to tolerate idiots if you do not consider them as stupid people, but exceptionally gifted monkeys." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I need to obviously try harder Please don't. Don't worry, personally I am only going to create a thread about a particular social justice issue when there is something that I feel really needs to be discussed. But that doesn't stop other people "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Somebody seriously needs to get a grip on themselves somewhere... Racist would be to call them clowns because of race. I don't see the cartoon doing that. I see it calling them clowns because of (sub)conscious choices done by the party members and their voters rather than genetics. If their first reaction is to try to put a foot down on free/opposition press, you are headed in a very bad direction. Bonus question: How *would* you draw a stereotypical South African? White, Black, Asian? MCA's stickmen? 2 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Somebody seriously needs to get a grip on themselves somewhere... Racist would be to call them clowns because of race. I don't see the cartoon doing that. I see it calling them clowns because of (sub)conscious choices done by the party members and their voters rather than genetics. If their first reaction is to try to put a foot down on free/opposition press, you are headed in a very bad direction. Bonus question: How *would* you draw a stereotypical South African? White, Black, Asian? MCA's stickmen? You make some good points Gorthfucius, ancient civilisations were correct to seek your wisdom This incident has basically gone away, the media house removed the cartoon and unequivocally apologized. I listened to the interview with the editor and she made comments like " sorry for any hurt caused and we need to try harder to not offend people and understand our differences " I think the outrage was motivated from a political perspective as the ANC is tired of being the " victim " of the media due to there own lack of good governance and accountability. Also remember the ANC didn't challenge this cartoon legally because we do have free speech but the media house received so much criticism through social media and other mediums that they removed them and apologized "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Sounds like there is quite a lot of butthurt in SA society. Even if the cartoon never was tried in court for....uh what really? Clown racism?, you guys really have a long way to go in order to become a more open society. 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Sounds like there is quite a lot of butthurt in SA society. Even if the cartoon never was tried in court for....uh what really? Clown racism?, you guys really have a long way to go in order to become a more open society. Well yes from outsiders perspective it may be appear we are over sensitive around certain topics. But due to our history that is understandable, I do think we get certain things right that most of you wouldn't agree with but end of the day there is always the risk of misplaced and unnecessary criticism. This cartoon is a good example of that "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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