Female gamers having a hard time in gaming communites

[tajerio]

I think part of the problem re: women participating in online games and game fora is the reputation those places have established.

 

I have two female friends who thought that SWTOR sounded pretty cool, even though they really weren't gamers, and wanted to play.  They absolutely refused to play by themselves, even after they'd gotten pretty decent at the game, because they didn't want to have to group up with "immature creepy gamer dudes" (their words)--even though they had no prior involvement with any gaming community.  They also refused to join my guild for ops, because they didn't want to go on voice chat and reveal that they were RL women.  Of course, given the fact that my guild always had a couple stupid arseholes on chat, that probably wasn't a bad move.

 

That illustrates something but I'm not sure what.

[Azdeus]

Despite the norwegian girl that came knocking on my door unbidden and the 17 year old brittish girl that wanted to come here, I think that segregation is a bad idea.

 

If they isolated themselves from the rest of the community it'll just fall to those unfortunate enough that do not want to segregate themselves to take the abuse for them and spend endless hours reporting people for said abuse to clear out the weeds from the population.

[Nonek]

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing, I can give similar stories about ladies I know who have been harassed and abused online only because they are female. But you have made the point brilliantly that  this problem is real and exists. What frustrates me the most about some people on these forums is that they have a  view that either the problem that SJW raise isn't as severe as they make it out to be or there solution to address this problem isn't really a solution at all. In other words you hear comments like " but men get abused online...someone once was rude to me" or " I'm sick of hearing about this sexism issue " as if that makes any difference whatsoever to the reality of the situation

 

Well the good news is that there is an increased awareness, solutions and condemnation  from many circles of society around these types of social issues. So for those that are tired of hearing about sexism and misogyny my advice is " get use to it, its not going anywhere " 

 

 

And yet the solution you advocate is to have women artificially seperated from men and granted a superior status, if you want women to be accepted hiding them away and treating them differently is not the correct method, a five year old could reason that out Bruce. It will do nothing except exacerbate the problem.

 

 

No Nonek, I am not suggesting that now we automatically separate every female gamer from all men and they don't interact. I am saying if female gamers want there own space let them have it. But this should be optional.

 

 

Then men should have their own space also, this is simple equality Bruce, if they have paid an equal amount of money then they should be treated exactly the same in all matters. To do otherwise is inequality, something that should never be tolerated.

[Monte Carlo]

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing, I can give similar stories about ladies I know who have been harassed and abused online only because they are female. But you have made the point brilliantly that  this problem is real and exists. What frustrates me the most about some people on these forums is that they have a  view that either the problem that SJW raise isn't as severe as they make it out to be or there solution to address this problem isn't really a solution at all. In other words you hear comments like " but men get abused online...someone once was rude to me" or " I'm sick of hearing about this sexism issue " as if that makes any difference whatsoever to the reality of the situation

 

Well the good news is that there is an increased awareness, solutions and condemnation  from many circles of society around these types of social issues. So for those that are tired of hearing about sexism and misogyny my advice is " get use to it, its not going anywhere " 

 

 

And yet the solution you advocate is to have women artificially seperated from men and granted a superior status, if you want women to be accepted hiding them away and treating them differently is not the correct method, a five year old could reason that out Bruce. It will do nothing except exacerbate the problem.

 

 

No Nonek, I am not suggesting that now we automatically separate every female gamer from all men and they don't interact. I am saying if female gamers want there own space let them have it. But this should be optional.

 

 

Then men should have their own space also, this is simple equality Bruce, if they have paid an equal amount of money then they should be treated exactly the same in all matters. To do otherwise is inequality, something that should never be tolerated.

 

 

No Nonek, once again you don't understand the issue

 

The reason why these females want there own groups is they feel genuinely harassed by male gamers. As has been explained through numerous examples this is a real problem for many female gamers. This is not a subjective debate

 

Are you suggesting there are groups of male gamers who feel harassed by female gamers. Do you think you can find 10 male gamers that will tell you how they were discriminated against by lady gamers and they were victims of unacceptable sexual innuendo ? If so then yes...those male gamers should have there own groups

 

But we both know the issue of sexism doesn't exist for your average male gamer so the same considerations don't need to apply

[Calax]

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE!

[BruceVC]

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

 

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

[Gorgon]

Gender really shouldn't be an issue given that online no one knows yours. The problem, at it's core, is the sheer volume of idiots in MMO games. 

[Leferd]

 

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

 

 

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter.

[Azdeus]

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

 

AFAIK, in Sweden, saying, "She deserved to get raped" is an valid opinion, if stupid. Saying "Someone needs to rape her" is'nt ok, that's advocating for a crime to be commited.

Same stands for "[group of people] is inferior and sucks", that's ok. Saying "[group of people] is inferior and sucks and should be cleansed" is'nt.

 

Your feelings are'nt protected by law, but your right to live and remain unharmed is.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

 

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter.

 

 

Wow its funny you think that in the USA you can just say what you want with no consequences. What happened to Donald Stirling recently?

[Majek]

10 years ago we would have never had a topic like that on these forums, or old BIS and IPLY ones. Where have all the cool gaming women went?

[Hurlshort]

Yeah, if you send a pic of your weiner to someone unsolicited, you are definitely breaking a law.  The tricky part is enforcement, but I'd say that is getting better every day.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

 

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter.

 

 

Wow its funny you think that in the USA you can just say what you want with no consequences. What happened to Donald Stirling recently?

 

 

He didn't get arrested, that's for sure.  There are always consequences to open bigotry, the law doesn't need to get involved in everything.

[Leferd]

 

 

 

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

 

 

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter.

 

Wow its funny you think that in the USA you can just say what you want with no consequences. What happened to Donald Stirling recently?

The government had nothing to do with Donald Sterling. The NBA policed the matter on their own. First Amendment only protects individuals from government prosecution for voicing opinions/beliefs. The NBA is not the government.

 

US laws protect your right to free speech, but doesn't protect you from acting like a moron and not suffer the consequences from your community or employer should you be in violation of company rules. Any quibbles about such alleged violations can be settled in court.

[Nonek]

 

No Nonek, once again you don't understand the issue

 

The reason why these females want there own groups is they feel genuinely harassed by male gamers. As has been explained through numerous examples this is a real problem for many female gamers. This is not a subjective debate

 

Are you suggesting there are groups of male gamers who feel harassed by female gamers. Do you think you can find 10 male gamers that will tell you how they were discriminated against by lady gamers and they were victims of unacceptable sexual innuendo ? If so then yes...those male gamers should have there own groups

 

But we both know the issue of sexism doesn't exist for your average male gamer so the same considerations don't need to apply

 

 

No Bruce I understand the issue and simply disagree with your shortsighted ill thought out view, as Monte Carlo suggests the onus lies on the administrators to deal with disruptive elements, not trying to mask the problem through discrimination and apartheid. Those are short term goals that will exacerbate the problem, not help in any way, shape or form. This is so simple a child could grasp it. Furthermore women being accorded a special status to "shield" them will not help the integration of male and female gamers, it will just fuel division.

 

Inequality is wrong, everybody should be treated equally if they have made the same contribution.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

 

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter.

 

Wow its funny you think that in the USA you can just say what you want with no consequences. What happened to Donald Stirling recently?

The government had nothing to do with Donald Sterling. The NBA policed the matter on their own. First Amendment only protects individuals from government prosecution for voicing opinions/beliefs. The NBA is not the government.

 

US laws protect your right to free speech, but doesn't protect you from acting like a moron and not suffer the consequences from your community or employer should you be in violation of company rules. Any quibbles about such alleged violations can be settled in court.

 

 

Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

[BruceVC]

 

 

No Nonek, once again you don't understand the issue

 

The reason why these females want there own groups is they feel genuinely harassed by male gamers. As has been explained through numerous examples this is a real problem for many female gamers. This is not a subjective debate

 

Are you suggesting there are groups of male gamers who feel harassed by female gamers. Do you think you can find 10 male gamers that will tell you how they were discriminated against by lady gamers and they were victims of unacceptable sexual innuendo ? If so then yes...those male gamers should have there own groups

 

But we both know the issue of sexism doesn't exist for your average male gamer so the same considerations don't need to apply

 

 

No Bruce I understand the issue and simply disagree with your shortsighted ill thought out view, as Monte Carlo suggests the onus lies on the administrators to deal with disruptive elements, not trying to mask the problem through discrimination and apartheid. Those are short term goals that will exacerbate the problem, not help in any way, shape or form. This is so simple a child could grasp it. Furthermore women being accorded a special status to "shield" them will not help the integration of male and female gamers, it will just fuel division.

 

Inequality is wrong, everybody should be treated equally if they have made the same contribution.

 

 

Okay, well my advice is contact the Star Citizen developers and tell them you disagree with how they are addressing the complaints and issues of female gamers. I support and understand why they are doing it so there is no outrage from my side.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think we are all aware of your distaste for freedom Bruce.

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

 

 

Bruce thinks the answer to issues of social justice is to order people to do stuff and lock them up if they don't. He's the Social Justice Commissar.

 

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK  justice department? Let me know what they say

I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter.

 

Wow its funny you think that in the USA you can just say what you want with no consequences. What happened to Donald Stirling recently?

The government had nothing to do with Donald Sterling. The NBA policed the matter on their own. First Amendment only protects individuals from government prosecution for voicing opinions/beliefs. The NBA is not the government.

 

US laws protect your right to free speech, but doesn't protect you from acting like a moron and not suffer the consequences from your community or employer should you be in violation of company rules. Any quibbles about such alleged violations can be settled in court.

 

 

Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

 

which is why leferd said he were glad he lives here... 'cause while every democratic and "westernized" nation claims they got freedom o' speech, only the USA gots something that resembles what we would consider freedom o' speech. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

So you're okay with the state tossing people into jail for hurting people's feelings ?

[BruceVC]

I think we are all aware of your distaste for freedom Bruce.

 

No, no, no that's completely wrong. I believe in freedom absolutely but not if that freedom means it offends or hurts someone else

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So the only way freedom is acceptable is if they don't do anything you disagree with? Afraid that isn't freedom.

[Malcador]

This is some expert trolling.

[Gromnir]

don't blame bruce for this. 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11254419

 

we got a bbc series o' stories on our work laptop that we always gives to euro clients as it does a fantastic job o' explaining fundamental differences 'tween US Constitutional protection o' free speech and what most o' the rest o' the world recognizes as free speech. maybe we access it later as it is informative for both non-Americans and Americans alike.  is some things we take for granted here in the USA that other nations has decided is... wrong.

 

HA! Good Fun!