Boko Haram and the kidnpping of the school girls

[Malcador]

Meh, taking pictures of one's self pouting with a sign holding a shell script comment on it isn't all that impressive to me. But whatever people do to make themselves feel better.   I'd argue that it is naive to expect a state to do something because it is moral and just, well at least any state with any significant power, all done out of interests.

 

Given Boko Haram doing this stuff for some time now, I can understand people's apathy.  

[Orogun01]

@Orogun01, Of course one is part of global campaign to raise awareness to help those girls. The other is a cynical use of their suffering for its own agenda...

 

But then I suppose that your post was just a kneejerk reaction to seeing America not in negative light.

You're telling me that the wife of the man they call "the leader of the Free World" has no better recourse than to launch a Twitter campaign. Its not cynical to doubt the veracity of their sentiment when a lot the decision they made resulted in the deaths of innocents. So I find it difficult to see it as anything more than a calculated political move, specially when all they've done is the bare minimum, which is to acknowledge the problem. What happened to the war on terrorism? Or are Boko Haram just "freedom fighters"?

[BruceVC]

 

@Orogun01, Of course one is part of global campaign to raise awareness to help those girls. The other is a cynical use of their suffering for its own agenda...

 

But then I suppose that your post was just a kneejerk reaction to seeing America not in negative light.

You're telling me that the wife of the man they call "the leader of the Free World" has no better recourse than to launch a Twitter campaign. Its not cynical to doubt the veracity of their sentiment when a lot the decision they made resulted in the deaths of innocents. So I find it difficult to see it as anything more than a calculated political move, specially when all they've done is the bare minimum, which is to acknowledge the problem. What happened to the war on terrorism? Or are Boko Haram just "freedom fighters"?

 

 

No Boko Haram are considered hard core Islamic fundamentalists. There are several groups like this is Africa, another one is Al-Shebaab in Somalia who are committing terrorist attacks in Kenya

 

But no Western country will just send troops into any African country unless they are invited or the UN backs a security mission, those days are long gone because of the fallout if something goes wrong, like Iraq. Western countries now work in partnership with African countries or they don't get involved at all. This is the correct and reasonable course of military action. So the Americans are doing what they can do in Nigeria and its a lot  more than most other countries have done. Lets give them some credit and be supportive

[Hurlshort]

Awareness is a pretty important step in rooting out any extremist groups, so I don't really get the cynicism.  Boko Haram was hardly on the mainstream radar before all this went down.  Now they are likely going to face immense pressure from many different organizations, and their days are pretty much numbered.  

 

Let's not forget that the Taliban spent 5 years doing terrible things in Afghanistan before it became a big deal, but once it became an international issue they were out of power relatively quickly, and they now struggle for legitimacy.

 

Al Qaeda has an even bleaker story, these groups aren't growing stronger under international attention.  Boko Haram is the new big thing and it will end badly for them.

[Orogun01]

 

 

@Orogun01, Of course one is part of global campaign to raise awareness to help those girls. The other is a cynical use of their suffering for its own agenda...

 

But then I suppose that your post was just a kneejerk reaction to seeing America not in negative light.

You're telling me that the wife of the man they call "the leader of the Free World" has no better recourse than to launch a Twitter campaign. Its not cynical to doubt the veracity of their sentiment when a lot the decision they made resulted in the deaths of innocents. So I find it difficult to see it as anything more than a calculated political move, specially when all they've done is the bare minimum, which is to acknowledge the problem. What happened to the war on terrorism? Or are Boko Haram just "freedom fighters"?

 

 

No Boko Haram are considered hard core Islamic fundamentalists. There are several groups like this is Africa, another one is Al-Shebaab in Somalia who are committing terrorist attacks in Kenya

 

But no Western country will just send troops into any African country unless they are invited or the UN backs a security mission, those days are long gone because of the fallout if something goes wrong, like Iraq. Western countries now work in partnership with African countries or they don't get involved at all. This is the correct and reasonable course of military action. So the Americans are doing what they can do in Nigeria and its a lot  more than most other countries have done. Lets give them some credit and be supportive

 

I thought the UN was pulling out of Nigeria this year? Has there been talks to get the US to stabilize the region? Because considering their history that might actually be a good thing.

[Malcador]

Awareness is a pretty important step in rooting out any extremist groups, so I don't really get the cynicism.  Boko Haram was hardly on the mainstream radar before all this went down.  Now they are likely going to face immense pressure from many different organizations, and their days are pretty much numbered.  

 

Let's not forget that the Taliban spent 5 years doing terrible things in Afghanistan before it became a big deal, but once it became an international issue they were out of power relatively quickly, and they now struggle for legitimacy.

 

Al Qaeda has an even bleaker story, these groups aren't growing stronger under international attention.  Boko Haram is the new big thing and it will end badly for them.

Eh, I wouldn't hold out on their days being numbered. Taliban is still around, after all.

[Hurlshort]

The Taliban are a shadow of what they once were.  

[Malcador]

Yep, but they may grow back once the West leaves and their eyes move elsewhere. Same might happen with Boko Haram. Hm, US can maybe get a reason to station some troops in Chad or Nigeria.

[Meshugger]

I know of a non-lethal way to undermine and finally cause Boko Haram to implode.

 

- Use drones to distribute Porn leaflets. Everywhere.

- Highjack their communication channels and replace everything with Wrestling and 80's rock

- Enjoy the show

 

#Western_Rules

#WWE

#PornHub

Edited May 23, 2014 by Meshugger

[BruceVC]

https://za.news.yahoo.com/nigeria-says-reaches-deal-boko-haram-over-abducted-152326480.html

 

So some good news, and its rare around these types of events in the African context

 

It looks like Boko Haram is going to give the school girls back, I wonder what they are getting in return? Apparently they will get some of there captured leaders  back?

[Malcador]

https://za.news.yahoo.com/nigeria-says-reaches-deal-boko-haram-over-abducted-152326480.html

 

So some good news, and its rare around these types of events in the African context

 

It looks like Boko Haram is going to give the school girls back, I wonder what they are getting in return? Apparently they will get some of there captured leaders  back?

Meh, big deal, Boko Haram still lives.

[Walsingham]

I know of a non-lethal way to undermine and finally cause Boko Haram to implode.

 

- Use drones to distribute Porn leaflets. Everywhere.

- Highjack their communication channels and replace everything with Wrestling and 80's rock

- Enjoy the show

 

#Western_Rules

#WWE

#PornHub

 

The jifs don't object to porn for the 'true Islamic Warrior'. Special exceptions for the martyrs is part of how they keep morale up.

[Malcador]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

 

Well now, this just incenses me.

[licketysplit]

The Taliban are a shadow of what they once were.  

 

Their dogma has survived quite nicely

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

 

Well now, this just incenses me.

 

Good lord. Makes me sick. Torch those f*ckers. Burn them like weeds.

Edited January 10, 2015 by licketysplit

[BruceVC]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

 

Well now, this just incenses me.

 

 

 

The Taliban are a shadow of what they once were.  

 

Their dogma has survived quite nicely

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

 

Well now, this just incenses me.

 

Good lord. Makes me sick. Torch those f*ckers. Burn them like weeds.

 

 

Yes it is utterly reprehensible

 

And what frustrates me even more is the AU is completely disinterested in resolving this problem despite the fact this is an African problem. And people wonder why the continent doesn't reach its full potential  

[Walsingham]

So... just in case I missed a meeting...

 

Islamists slaughter thousands, make rape slaves out of little girls, and murder journalists for drawing pictures of their mental pinups

 

...and the internet is still divided over who are bigger ****, them or Americans.

 

F*** you, internet.

[Malcador]

So... just in case I missed a meeting...

 

Islamists slaughter thousands, make rape slaves out of little girls, and murder journalists for drawing pictures of their mental pinups

 

...and the internet is still divided over who are bigger ****, them or Americans.

 

F*** you, internet.

Well, both have done bad things. Just one is done as part of the games States play. Big deal.

[BruceVC]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-30761963

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

 

Both these links have been posted but I wanted to repost them just to highlight how completely out of control this situation in north-eastern Nigeria is

 

Over 2000 thousand people massacred and we don't hear anything from the AU around how there is going to be a consolidated campaign from Africa  to address this military threat from Boko Haram

 

20 people die in the Paris attacks and  the whole of Europe is united in condemnation and outrage. When will the African continent actually start addressing its own problems in a meaningful way ?

[Valsuelm]

20 people die in the Paris attacks and  the whole of Europe is united in condemnation and outrage. When will the African continent actually start addressing its own problems in a meaningful way ?

 

Often when people try to, they are murdered. The powers that be generally want the African continent subjugated under a friendly to them tyrant or in turmoil if a friendly tyrant can't be found. Robbing it of it's resources is much easier that way. And there are numerous players on the African chessboard. Many of them heartless and ruthless. Not to mention there's a lot of racism still out there. Ugly as it is, to many, black lives don't matter.

 

Edited January 11, 2015 by Valsuelm

[BruceVC]

 

20 people die in the Paris attacks and  the whole of Europe is united in condemnation and outrage. When will the African continent actually start addressing its own problems in a meaningful way ?

 

Often when people try to, they are murdered. The powers that be generally want the African continent subjugated under a friendly to them tyrant or in turmoil if a friendly tyrant can't be found. Robbing it of it's resources is much easier that way. And there are numerous players on the African chessboard. Many of them ruthless.

 

 

The AU is the organisation responsible for the stewardship of Africa and its member countries

 

This whole " western countries are robbing Africa of its resources"  is so 1960's and really irrelevant to the obvious problems the continent grapples with. These problems are corruption, lack of governance and a failure of the AU to enforce its own manifesto within its member states 

 

But just for record who has been murdered in Africa by Western powers in order to gain some economic benefit  in the last 20 years?

[Darkpriest]

well Africa never really developed civilization, even though it is arguably a cradle of humankind, aside of the Egypt, who are were more like arabic mediterranean people in sculptures, and Carthage, who was phoenician descendant. If not for colonizaton and exploration era, they would most likely still live in huts as some tribes did even 50 years ago. Although there was something in the area of current Ethiopia, but I never really dug into that part. I would be more curious why it failed to spread and sustain itself.

 

They are simply at this point not able to come to some conclusions. I have opinions that might come as a bit racist, but the facts and thousands of years of evolution and adaptation speak for themselves, the modern era of last 50-100 years won't change that just because someone might not like it.

 

it might be shocking for us, but for them it's been history for thousands of years of tribal warfares. Only the tools of war have changed, and mainly due to external influence.

 

In Europe it took two World Wars, major damages and depopulation, to develop the idea of moving conflicts and disagreements from military solutions to diplomatic ones.

 

In USA it took the civil war and involvement in two wars to get some idea of diplomacy foremost, although they are still very militant, as they never sustained major damages and depopulation on their homeland as a result of a major conflict.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Darkpriest

[BruceVC]

well Africa never really developed civilization, even though it is arguably a cradle of humankind, aside of the Egypt, who are were more like arabic mediterranean people in sculptures, and Carthage, who was phoenician descendant. If not for colonizaton and exploration era, they would most likely still live in huts as some tribes did even 50 years ago. Although there was something in the area of current Ethiopia, but I never really dug into that part. I would be more curious why it failed to spread and sustain itself.

 

They are simply at this point not able to come to some conclusions. I have opinions that might come as a bit racist, but the facts and thousands of years of evolution and adaptation speak for themselves, the modern era of last 50-100 years won't change that just because someone might not like it.

 

it might be shocking for us, but for them it's been history for thousands of years of tribal warfares. Only the tools of war have changed, and mainly due to external influence.

 

In Europe it took two World Wars, major damages and depopulation, to develop the idea of moving conflicts and disagreements from military solutions to diplomatic ones.

 

In USA it took the civil war and involvement in two wars to get some idea of diplomacy foremost, although they are still very militant, as they never sustained major damages and depopulation on their homeland as a result of a major conflict.

 

Yes you raise some valid points and I don't disagree with everything you are saying

 

Africa hasn't had the same economic evolution events that European countries had, like the Industrial Revolution, or major wars that united the continent under a certain ideology. Also the early colonial states  that the Europeans established were about the abuse and extraction of economic resources in some countries  at the expense of local people 

 

 But the reality is most colonial control ended in the 1960's especially amongst the British and French colonies, these colonies were handed over to new African governments to govern by themselves. And the new African leaders were all educated in excellent Western universities and  they did understand economics and what good governance was. They just decided not to follow it  and rather enrich themselves and their supporters and tribe. So by the 1980's almost every single African country was bankrupt and needed loans from the IMF

 

There are several African countries that do a relatively good job at trying to maintain government institutions so that they can provide important services to their population, like healthcare and education,  but there are more countries that have failed miserably and this is a direct result of the actual governments and their disinterest in good governance. If you look at Zimbabwe this is an excellent example of how an African country can effectively destroy its economy through government policies and also its a good example of how the AU has failed to condemn Robert Mugabe and allowed him to continue to rule his country as a dictator. So the AU in its current form needs to be challenged for not enforcing its own policies around the principles of Democracy and what its says it stands for 

 

If you are interested in why Africa is in the state its in I recommend reading the book  " The State of Africa " by Martin Meredith. Very interesting and relevant 

[Rostere]

well Africa never really developed civilization, even though it is arguably a cradle of humankind, aside of the Egypt, who are were more like arabic mediterranean people in sculptures, and Carthage, who was phoenician descendant. If not for colonizaton and exploration era, they would most likely still live in huts as some tribes did even 50 years ago. Although there was something in the area of current Ethiopia, but I never really dug into that part. I would be more curious why it failed to spread and sustain itself.

 

What the **** are you talking about?

 

The ancient Egyptians were as African as you can get. They spoke an Afro-Asiatic language which is distinct from the Semitic branch (which developed in the Middle East), which can be said to be wholly African in origin.

 

The Carthaginians were Semites though, you are correct on that point.

 

The highlands of Ethiopia is a site where you can find very ancient evidence of agriculture. It would be completely wrong to say that "civilization never developed there".

 

And this is without delving into the civilizations which has existed at other points in time in Africa. Sure, they might have been a few hundred years behind, but it would be contradictory to not call it "civilization" since that would pretty much disqualify a great deal of other cultures I'm betting you define as "civilized".

 

If you are interested in anthropology and the rise of civilizations I recommend the book "Guns, Germs and Steel".

 

European civilization has only been prominent for about 400 years. The Romans and the Greeks had their time but it would be deeply unfair to say that they were clearly above the level of the Persians and the Chinese (for example). If things had turned out differently and the Chinese would have come to Europe instead of the other way around, they would also have described European medieval history as consisting of ridiculous and pointless tribal wars, religious superstition and so on. It is only because of our subconscious image of civilization that we regard living in a house of stone as inherently more civilized than living in a "hut" as you implicitly mean to say is so uncivilized.

[ShadySands]

There were several major African civilizations not named Egypt and I think the one in Ethiopia that you're thinking of was either Axum/Aksum or Abyssinia

[BruceVC]

There were several major African civilizations not named Egypt and I think the one in Ethiopia that you're thinking of was either Axum/Aksum or Abyssinia

 

 

 

 

well Africa never really developed civilization, even though it is arguably a cradle of humankind, aside of the Egypt, who are were more like arabic mediterranean people in sculptures, and Carthage, who was phoenician descendant. If not for colonizaton and exploration era, they would most likely still live in huts as some tribes did even 50 years ago. Although there was something in the area of current Ethiopia, but I never really dug into that part. I would be more curious why it failed to spread and sustain itself.

 

What the **** are you talking about?

 

The ancient Egyptians were as African as you can get. They spoke an Afro-Asiatic language which is distinct from the Semitic branch (which developed in the Middle East), which can be said to be wholly African in origin.

 

The Carthaginians were Semites though, you are correct on that point.

 

The highlands of Ethiopia is a site where you can find very ancient evidence of agriculture. It would be completely wrong to say that "civilization never developed there".

 

And this is without delving into the civilizations which has existed at other points in time in Africa. Sure, they might have been a few hundred years behind, but it would be contradictory to not call it "civilization" since that would pretty much disqualify a great deal of other cultures I'm betting you define as "civilized".

 

If you are interested in anthropology and the rise of civilizations I recommend the book "Guns, Germs and Steel".

 

European civilization has only been prominent for about 400 years. The Romans and the Greeks had their time but it would be deeply unfair to say that they were clearly above the level of the Persians and the Chinese (for example). If things had turned out differently and the Chinese would have come to Europe instead of the other way around, they would also have described European medieval history as consisting of ridiculous and pointless tribal wars, religious superstition and so on. It is only because of our subconscious image of civilization that we regard living in a house of stone as inherently more civilized than living in a "hut" as you implicitly mean to say is so uncivilized.

 

 

Sure, but how this is relevant to the current state of Africa? I hear the perspective often on this radio talk I participate in  " Africa use to have very advanced civilizations ", I agree with that, its part of the history of the continent. But how do we get the AU  to realize that the only way to uplift the continent meaningfully in an economic and social way is for the AU to actually enforce its own policies, like no fraudulent elections and no abuse of human rights that is given tacit support by many African countries. Like the rise of homophobia we see in certain African countries?

 

Its great that Africa had previous civilisations but how does that help us now?