Obsidian partners with a publisher for PoE

[Gfted1]

From what I know physical copies and therefore shipment of them is limited to the people who pledged certain amount of $.

That's what I thought too ($65.00 and up tiers).

 

From everyone elses reaction I guess that's not the case. I wonder how much the box copy will cost retail. Has to be $65.00 or higher, right?

[sesobebo]

 

From what I know physical copies and therefore shipment of them is limited to the people who pledged certain amount of $.

That's what I thought too ($65.00 and up tiers).

 

From everyone elses reaction I guess that's not the case. I wonder how much the box copy will cost retail. Has to be $65.00 or higher, right?

 

 

it's from the eurogamer's article:

The partnership raises the possibility of boxed versions and special editions of the game, although "nothing is set in stone yet", Wester said.

[Elerond]

 

 

1. They want someone to market their game so that it has potential to sell more

2. They want also sell physical copies for people who didn't back the game. And they don't produce any physical goods by themselves, so they need to order them from someone else, so it is also quite reasonable that that someone else also handles packaging and posting of those goods for those who have ordered them.

3. They need also someone to handle localisation and localisation testing of the game, as they don't have expertise to do such things by themselves.

4. Major part of their backers are from Europe, so it is very reasonable to partner with some European company that can deliver goods there cheaper and who have knowledge how European markets works.

5. Partnership term is used because of nature of agreement between companies, where Obsidian don't pay fixed number, but instead Paradox get some percentage of sale revenue, which can mean that deal can be profitable or unprofitable for them. And Paradox and Obsidian have conversations of future co-operation.

 

So they partnered with Paradox because Paradox can offer most things that had to outsource, because lag of expertise or equipment, in one package.

 

 

Ad.1 

That is understandable. But They already have the media attention and so on. This is not GTA or Call of Duty. Will marketing cost pay off in sales increase? I think not. This is old school RPG, how many potential clients haven't heard about it already? What other things would Paradox do what the trade magazines and portals aren't already doing?

 

Ad.2

Are they? Sorry if I missed the information but outside of limited collectioners edition I was under the impression the game is Steam and GOG distributed only. Will there be actual physical copies in stores?

 

Ad.3

I was under the impression that localisations are already handled and will be made by other companies.

 

Ad.4

I don't follow, they still need to ship those to Sweden. Is it cheaper to ship Obsidian->Paradox->Backers than directly Obsidian->Backers? How so?

 

Ad.5

Interesting. And what CEO would invest his company money in publishing the product that the said company have no input in development? Are you that naive?

 

 

1. Marketing also includes things like producing trailers, posters, adds,managing those things, having someone constantly answering questions from press, selling product to stores to be sold (for example selling physical copies of games in stores actually take lot of effort and needs actual sales team to do so, Paradox has already has such team and other product that it also can sell so that team isn't dependent on only one product). With good marketing you can multiply potential of sales for even niches product, because most potential customer aren't actively seeking products to buy, so they don't usually read articles of products that they aren't interested in fist place, which is when adds come along, as their job is to rise awareness and interest to product so that people go seek more information about product.  So I would say that with Paradox marketing game has potential to found even 10-20 times more people than what it could find with effort that Obsidian could put in it's marketing. 

 

2. One outcome of this partnership is that there will be physical copies in stores.

 

3. They need someone to over watch and QA those localisations and I believe that responsibility of localisation moves to Paradox's partners that they use to localize their games.

 

4. Paradox produces the goods not Obsidian, so there is no shipping from Obsidian to Paradox. And shipping from USA to Europe is 10 times more expensive per packet than what it's to ship from Europe to Europe. So even if Obsidian ships all European goods to Paradox in one Packet and then Paradox distributes them Europe it would be cheaper than Obsidian to ship packets directly to backers.

 

5. Paradox don't publish product, they only distribute and market it, so they don't have their company's money in making PoE, but instead they think that product looks so good that they are ready to market it with promise of future income form sales revenue instead of taking payment before hand. This also means that Obsidian has more money to produce game (or it expansion) as they don't need to allocate any of the funds towards marketing the game. Paradox trusts that they can get more from selling PoE than what they will put to testing, marketing and distributing it, because game is already quite well received in among gamers and gaming press. And I would ask you what kind of CEO you think Urquhart is if you think that he will relinquish Obsidian creative control over PoE for product which they already have funds to do when Paradox don't even give them payment of any kind for the product?

[nipsen]

I suppose that with the "finalize your pledge" setup, they've been receiving a lot of disk-orders they didn't have earlier. Which would make anyone have certain expectations for possible boxed sales when the time comes.

 

But you're right, they wouldn't need a publishing house to deal with those orders. At worst they could hire a small company to print the boxes and discs - for example to a non-standard size in non-standard material, which we would all appreciate, and so on. And which would very likely pay for itself as well as act as solid advertisement for the actual sales of the game, standard boxed or digital, once it turns up.

 

It's also worrying that they mention things such that Paradox is good at making games visible around launch. They are, in a sense. But they keep using ways to do it with youtube partnerships that are very.. let's say.. standard nowadays. With contracting people to have certain mentions and so and so much gameplay shown per word, etc. Not bad or evil stuff - but you could end up with a format for this that isn't really suited for presenting a role-playing game like this. It could be done carefully and openly, and everyone would possibly be happy with that. But, you know, Obsidian people really have to be part of that process, so they don't end up with a mention of DLC coming soon! In every review. Or that they'd get run over by "oh, the market wants this!!!" speeches.

 

I mean, my guess is that Paradox would be interested in first a cheap boxed copy release, and that they'd get that into lists that stores can order the games from. Which would be extremely easy with a name like Obsidian as the developer - much easier than with paradox' other partners. Then there'd be dlc distribution, and then collector's editions. And I can absolutely see that Obsidian would imagine that they might run into capacity problems that would make them lose initiative and possibly also sales for that if they had to deal with it themselves. It really makes sense to have a second company take care of that, and to take the initial hit on cost, in return for revenue on the actual sales. And it makes sense for the Kickstarter project, since Obsidian wouldn't want to transfer work-hours and money off that Kickstarter pool to cover distribution costs.

 

What I don't see is why Obsidian wouldn't want to be pretty much.. completely open about the details of this arrangement. So that we as backers understand their reasoning. Specially with the idea of planned content turning up in dlc. Does the original backer reward involve a certain amount of exclusivity with the boxed copies, etc. And along with more specific to what Paradox is actually going to be doing, and what they will choose for drm in the coming releases. Will there be a difference in the first and possibly second wave?

 

Is it still important for Obsidian to show that delivering a drm-free boxed or digital distribution can make money? Or will that part of the discussion be put dead once the publishing is handled over to a different company.

 

Then there's the q&a process. I've been part of too many Sony betas to not understand that q&a can ruin a game completely. By well-meaning suggestions from beta-testers who have an ear to the publisher's concerns, this can be a surprisingly quick and steady process. So as a backer, I'd very much like to know for certain that Sawyer and Urquhart, and so on, won't be sitting with a check-list where the're going to be, I don't know.. encouraged to slim down skill interferences to avoid complexity of gameplay hitting new players too soon. Or having to drop dialogue trees due to an inference commonly made in the "white privileged youth" segment that would cause unfavourable questions regarding their assumed world-view.

 

..you know.. "Hey, let's cut the planned branching ending tree and just make a cheezy cutscene that wraps the game up in a way that assumes the choices that our typical player would make. No one under 13 will notice!".

 

There are a lot of things here that can go wrong, even with the best of intentions. Individually they might not be huge issues. But put together it could be a disaster.

 

So I really don't see why the dev-team wouldn't take the opportunity to expose the specifics of how this partnership would play out. No one will lose anything, and potentially gain a lot, from doing that.

[Hassat Hunter]

Basically, this means that instead of being a pure-DD title it can now be found in stores for people to buy.

 

What's bad about that? What's evil bout that? What's NOT beneficial of that?

[Blarghagh]

Can anyone confirm that there will be boxed copies in stores?

 

Since I don't have access to any trustworthy method of payment to back it (read: no credit card and I don't trust paypal) and I like boxes. I figured I'd get it on Steam when it comes out, but a boxed copy would be best.

Edited March 20, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Hassat Hunter]

No.

And if, probably very limited in a few countries... read: probably not the Netherlands...

[Blarghagh]

Aw, boo. I hope I'm not going to have to bite the bullet and get a paypal account. Thanks though.

[Gfted1]

Aw, boo. I hope I'm not going to have to bite the bullet and get a paypal account. Thanks though.

Since you want to deal in cash, perhaps your local gaming store offers Steam gift cards? You can buy one and then get the game off Steam.

[Blarghagh]

Oh no, I have access to payment methods on Steam. But ideally, I'd like to have a boxed copy.

[rjshae]

Will the boxed versions become collectors items? Maybe some will leave their mint copy unopened and just use the digital download?

[Elerond]

Will the boxed versions become collectors items? Maybe some will leave their mint copy unopened and just use the digital download?

 

I probably don't open my signed collector's edition box, as I also get four digital copies of the game.

[LordCrash]

Oh no, I have access to payment methods on Steam. But ideally, I'd like to have a boxed copy.

Don't give up hope. Paradox is still looking into the possibility to offer boxed copies and even collector's editions of PoE.

[Lephys]

Imagine you are a dev of fan funded game that was funded without the "bad" publishers sticking their noses in it. Now you run out of money because you didn't finish on time (PoE was delayed from original date - fact). What do you do? You find a publisher and sell out. But you are aware that your fanbase would riot. So, now what you do? You tell the fanbase that it's ok, that you have all the cards in your hand, but in reality you have only the printed portrets of us presidents and the card deck is in publishers pocket.

To be honest haven't we heard that before? Devs and publishers claiming that devs have all creative freedom, but later we learn that publishers practically reviewed and had to accept every aspect and every part of the game. Could it be every time? Lets be honest the big publishers company is run by accountants and shareholders and they dont give decisive decisions to someone else.

Now lets think why would Obsidian need publisher.

1. The game is published digitally only. So do you need publishers to upload game ob steam and gog? I think not.

2. The physical copy is sent to a very limited group of people. Not all of 76.000 backers gave enough to hold a physical copy and goods. So do you need a publisher to send so little amount of physical goods? I was an intern in a company and we managed to prepare and send over 100.000 products in a week. There was 5 of us. So is Obsidian telling us they hired a publisher company to do something a few cheap interns could do? Really?

3. If not for above then whats would be the reason to get a publisher?

4. Note that nowhere they use a word hire, they use partnership. Really? Do any of us "partner" with delivery service company to distribute something? Or do we hire them? Partnership is a description of different kind of business agreement.

I'm willing to donate extra money for Sharp_One to get a Jump To Conclusions mat added to his physical rewards package.

 

It's a mat with conclusions on it... that you jump to. 8D

 

(Office Space reference, for those who are boggled here).

 

Seriously though... again I say, at the start of this project, you say "Yeah, Obsidian, I totally trust you to competently make this game. Have my money via Kickstarter." But now, you suddenly feel they're horribly incompetent, and probably actually ran out of money and sold their souls to an evil publisher and are lying to us about it?

 

Gyah. Reality. It's here. Accept it. You either trust them or you don't. You can't do both. And you already made that decision when you pledged. Assuming they're actually some horrible, incompetent group now and are liars, to boot, isn't really going to change reality. They either are, or they aren't. Just sit tight and find out, like everyone's going to have to do. Unless you can somehow divine the future.

 

Ad.5

Interesting. And what CEO would invest his company money in publishing the product that the said company have no input in development? Are you that naive?

I dunno... how many people are naive enough to invest their money into a game project purely on the developers' word and description of intent, before the production has even started?

 

Oh, that's right... 75,000, give or take. Are we really that naive?

 

Is it that preposterous that a publishing company would stake their time, effort, and resources on a cut of some profits from a game project that's being developed by a proven-competent team, with a solid year-and-a-half worth of game to show them?

 

It's not like they're blindfolded. They sure as hell have a lot more assuring evidence than we 75,000 backers did, and we gave them 4 million dollars. Paradox isn't even giving them money. They're just performing a service, and getting compensated for it.

 

Insane, I know...

Edited March 20, 2014 by Lephys

[rjshae]

 I'm willing to donate extra money for Sharp_One to get a Jump To Conclusions mat added to his physical rewards package.

 

Mmm, I'll bet Jump to Conclusions is a first level spell that you can enchant into your keyboard. Material components: a thread and a post.

[Bryy]

 

Will the boxed versions become collectors items? Maybe some will leave their mint copy unopened and just use the digital download?

 

I probably don't open my signed collector's edition box, as I also get four digital copies of the game.

 

I'm assuming most collectors did this.

[Hassat Hunter]

But... the goodies.

 

Not that I get a box, the shipping cost to the EU being what they were...

[nipsen]

 

 I'm willing to donate extra money for Sharp_One to get a Jump To Conclusions mat added to his physical rewards package.

 

Mmm, I'll bet Jump to Conclusions is a first level spell that you can enchant into your keyboard. Material components: a thread and a post.

 

..Not sure what I'd call the entire.. "everything will be fine, and rainbows and unicorns exist!" line some of you seem to like. But "carefully considered and logically thought out based on observation and available facts" probably isn't it.

[illathid]

 

Just to be clear, Paradox Development games do not require any connection to Steam other than to download, update, or use multiplayer. I could link posts from Paradox devs describing exactly how to  get one thier games running on your computer without it ever having it used Steam or Steam getting any information about you. Granted this requires a friend with steam on thier computer and creating a false steam account and paying with Steam gift card. Regardless, the point is that Paradox is generally very anti-DRM still, even with thier adoption of Steam.

 

As I previously said, Paradox keep a no-steam.exe, but they stick to Steam online activation, what is just a move from other web services online activation, like the Vicky 2 addon - a House Divided - IIRC, which needs an online activation at their own website during the install. There was controversy IIRC when they released the boxed version of Vicky 2 + a House Divided, and the DVD setup only installed the original game, you should go register to their website to have a House Divided. So basically, the boxed version was useless. That didn't happen for Vicky 1 and its addon Revolutions, since boxed Victoria Complete Pack doesn't have any DRM at all. Again regarding boxed copies, if you compare to the other series, Crusader Kings II or Europa Universalis IV need Steam to be installed, but Europa Universalis III Chronicles and Crusader Kings Complete Pack didn't have any DRM just like Vicky Complete Pack.

 

They now require a Steam online activation at install for every boxed game they make and/or produce for few years. Even though they can provide a no-steam.exe, Paradox still use Steam as an online activation DRM. Thus, they aren't anti-DRM anymore, no matter what they can say.

 

 

Ummm... Paradox Development doesn't do boxed copies for thier games anymore. The only way to get CKII, EUIV, or HoI4 (when it is released) is by downloading it. There are no boxed copies. With CKII do you could either download it from Steam or Gamersgate. They eventually stopped the Gamersgate version because it was causing too much trouble maintaining two version and only 2% of all copies were from Gamersgate. It is disengenuos to say that they require online activation if the only way to get it is online. So, yes they can say they are Anti-DRM.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Paradox aren't risking their jobs or anything. They're acting as distributors and marketing the game. That's it. And the 10K+ orders they have to fulfil from the Kickstarter has been paid for by the Obsidian. So for the initial 10K or so orders, it's risk free. And a company like Paradox who want to make money will market this game to get more distribution profits. That's also good for Obsidian to get the game marketed for them, to get it out there and royalties in return. 

[Huinehtar]

Ummm... Paradox Development doesn't do boxed copies for thier games anymore. The only way to get CKII, EUIV, or HoI4 (when it is released) is by downloading it. There are no boxed copies. With CKII do you could either download it from Steam or Gamersgate. They eventually stopped the Gamersgate version because it was causing too much trouble maintaining two version and only 2% of all copies were from Gamersgate. It is disengenuos to say that they require online activation if the only way to get it is online. So, yes they can say they are Anti-DRM.

 

Well, so what are these:

 

 

-Europa Universalis IV DVD

-Crusader Kings II Gold Pack DVD

-Mount and Blade Collection DVD

 

 

 

And I'm sorry, but one can't dismiss online activation even though you have to buy the game on a website. Because on each install, the game requires to be online to activate it. That's the whole point of DRM-free webstores like GOG or DotEmu: yes you have to be online to purchase and to download but that's it. You can install your games on a offline machine, no need to install another software, no need to have a web connection. Burn DVDs or transfert on a HDD, and install into the offline machine. You could say that the no-steam.exe allows you to copy the installed files to transfert them manually, but it's a workaround, and in the first place, again, Steam is used as an online activation DRM. So again, I disagree.

 

For someone like me, using a Linux PC only to go online to purchase goods, to browse the web, etc... and using another offline Windows PC to play Windows games, and using another PC which is a data server (where I store my backups, installers, saves) in a local network, well it's important.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

From what Obsidian stated Paradox is not paid anything beforehand, they will share profits. That means they have to invest their money for marketing and distribution. That means if there are no profits or profits will not cover the expenses some people will lose money and some will lose jobs as an outcome.

 

You guys may think what you like, but I find it really hard to believe that a game that was crowdfunded because no publisher would see profit in making it finds a publisher now and one that would invest time and money without influencing the game in any way.

 

 

There will be profit for Paradox for the initial 10K+ orders from the Kickstarter. That's guaranteed whether their paid upfront or not by Obsidian. Paradox would have worked out how much it would cost to produce 10K+ boxes of the game. They've been in the game for 15 years? If there was too much risk, a company with years of experience would have said, 'no thanks, too much risk or no money for us'. 

 

On the contrary, they were more than happy to strike a deal with Obsidian and negotiations would have been taking place over months to finalise this. Months that Paradox would have worked out how much this is going to cost them. This is not some fly by the seat of your pants deal. Companies don't operate like that. This would have taken months of negotiations, of going back and forward, to work out distribution, marketing, cost of producing boxes, manuals, pressing discs for the game, audio cd, etc. It would've been very in depth with something like this. And both parties are more than happy. Both make money. The backers get their game. The game gets marketed and sells, and overall it's good for both Paradox and Obsidian. What distributor wouldn't want to make money by distributing the game? It's good business sense to make money.

[Huinehtar]

 

 

I will add that concerning their excuses to stop support for the Gamersgate version since they were claiming that "5% are negligible", why are "wasting" time and money to port CK II on Linux in that case? Why are they making niche video games? Why are they making video games at all? Counting on percentages and trying to legitimate that decision don't seem reliable to me. Even if Obsidian have control on their IP, will they try to dissuade them to make, long term support real DRM-free or/and Steam-free versions? Because their "statistics" show that "only 5%" don't use Steam for their games, and they found that it is "negligible"? And why none of their games are on a real DRM-free store like GOG?

 

I am pretty sure that there wouldn't be "only 5%" to play their games if they were sold there on GOG, but it would be much more than "5%". But maybe, Paradox just don't want it to happen, so they can jump on the Steamwagon, and people who disagree would be outvoiced by Steam-fanboys? Here, I am just supposing that, but it seems too obvious to me.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hiro: Precisely. It's a carefully prepared business decision that is for the long term, the aim being a win-win partnership with Paradox.

[Bryy]

No, it's an evil conspiracy.

 

Everything in the world is horrible all the time.