Armour & weapon designs (part V).

[W.MacKinnon]

That rondel dagger looks delicate, by that does the pummel serve a purpose other then decorative? Is it also good for smashing an opponent in the head? I understand the pictures are probably modern art pieces (letter openers/wall hangers) then actual weapons intended to stab someone, or knock an adversary across the head with them. Art wise they look pretty cool (agree on that point), just figure it should have a bit heavier pummel to use an impromptu blackjack. The third picture has daggers with pummels of a smaller profile but looks like they could do some damage. The first one looks the coolest but the pummel doesn't look like it'd stand up to being used that way.

 

I know all the rogues I rp'd would be to vain to ruin their dagger on a guy's head.

[Karranthain]

Some examples of nice ornamentations:

 

Plumes:

 

 

Mounts are out, but I reckon this picture, featuring a very nice caparison, is definitely worth sharing anyway:

 

[Jarmo]

I'll just throw a few simpler (than plate or similar) armor design out here, since not everyone can be wearing armor:

 

Light horseman armors

 

Footmen armor and half helms!

 

Some gladiator-ish armor (just ignore that ducks wear them)

 

 

King of the Dragon Pass! I love this game

 

As a much belated heads up to fellow fans, the original artwork of the game has been on sale for penuts for a good while.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/daviddunham?order=price_desc&page=1

 

Bought one about a mysterious swordsman. About A5 size.

[Suburban-Fox]

That pommel doesn't look much good for bashing, but I'd guess that it was so that you can push against it with your other hand. Either that, or it serves as a guard.

 

Rondel daggers were designed to be used against armoured knights (primarily to stab through the visor slit), so there must have been a reason for that pommel shape.

[Jarmo]

That rondel dagger looks delicate, by that does the pummel serve a purpose other then decorative? Is it also good for smashing an opponent in the head?

 

I think, as in rather than know, that it's for double handed use.

 

Once you got that armored fella wrestled down on his back, take a reverse grip with one hand and put the palm of the other hand on the pommel and then thrust down as hard as you can with all your body weight. The first two would seem to suggest this, but the third one not as much.

[Woldan]

Flemish arquebuses from the 1520's. The top one with the angled butt stock is really cool. Pretty amazing they already had that modern looking firearms at that time. Thats a whooping hundred years before the 30 years war. 

 

[quest1on]

About rondel daggers, and daggers in general - I don't think anyone intended to use the pommel as bludgeon because how small of a weapon they are. With sword, you sometimes happen to have your opponent out of reach of the blade, because he closed the distance, but daggers are generally close quarters weapon, so if you can use pommel, you can just stab as well. Moreover, reverse grip (with tip facing dwnward) is much more common in fechtbuchs, so it would be hard to smash someone in this configuration of hand-dagger.

[W.MacKinnon]

Thanks for the info on daggers guys. I never even thought of the idea of using the pummel to get additional thrust power in close quarters. Only type of blades I've handled have been replica swords, military service utility knifes, and my own utility knifes(hawkbill, boxcutter, and straight edge types). Reading about a dagger or knife in an rpg book is quite different then having any actual knowledge on them. Appreciate the comments - gives me understanding of the different designs at least.

 

On some interesting designs that interest me on an esthetic level are flails. Especially with newer graphic animations maybe we'll see a decent swagger/idle hanging chain, and possible animation of a flail striking over a shield. While they aren't as showy as swords or daggers, they do seem very much a business weapon. By that look to be a tool to maim and kill first, the art of the piece comes second. Something is to be said about a no nonsense weapon like that, not to say a rich man might not have a more decorative flail head like a skull or some such. Just seems more of a commoner weapon.

 

[Urthor]

 

That rondel dagger looks delicate, by that does the pummel serve a purpose other then decorative? Is it also good for smashing an opponent in the head?

 

I think, as in rather than know, that it's for double handed use.

 

Once you got that armored fella wrestled down on his back, take a reverse grip with one hand and put the palm of the other hand on the pommel and then thrust down as hard as you can with all your body weight. The first two would seem to suggest this, but the third one not as much.

 

 

err not quite. 

 

The Rondel is basically a medieval screwdriver.  If you want to kill someone with a screwdriver, you pick it up and you have to thrust it very quickly with a lot of force.  If you're thrusting a greasy medieval screwdriver with a pommel that's mostly metal with some cloth wrapped around it into someone as hard as you can, it's pretty easy for it to fly forward out of your hand like a javelin.   

 

The pommel is like that simply because it makes it much easier to hold and helps stop it slipping out of your hand when you're using the Rondel for what Rondel's do, which is ram them as hard as you can through some chain mail.  

 

If you pick up a normal knife, put your thumb by the hilt and have the blade coming out past your pinky pointing down, you're gripping pretty hard at that point simply so you don't drop the bloody knife.  

 

If you pick up a rondel with that disk hilt, put your thumb by the hilt and your pinky by the guard, it doesn't fall out of your hand very easily and it's much easier to hold.  

[Merlkir]

 

As a much belated heads up to fellow fans, the original artwork of the game has been on sale for penuts for a good while.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/daviddunham?order=price_desc&page=1

 

Bought one about a mysterious swordsman. About A5 size.

 

 

Well, since you brought it up... :D I'm also selling a few scenes I painted for the game. 

 

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JanPospisilArt

[Jarmo]

Well, since you brought it up... :D I'm also selling a few scenes I painted for the game. 

 

 

The newish ipad iphone version? My hat's off to you.

The style is the same but I'm sure I haven't seen any of those in any of my plays.

[Merlkir]

Yep, there's a big update coming. There's also an outsourced Android port in the works!

[Karranthain]

The classic - targe and a broadsword, a great fit for a lightly armoured skirmisher (from what we've read about PE, it would seem it'll be a viable approach, fingers crossed!).

 

[Greensleeve]

The classic - targe and a broadsword, a great fit for a lightly armoured skirmisher (from what we've read about PE, it would seem it'll be a viable approach, fingers crossed!).

 

-snip-

 

Nice sword and shield. The sword looks as though it's from a bit later an era than the early 16th century (17th century British perhaps?), but the shield is beautiful. 

 

Given the prominence of cut-and-thrusts with rotella shields in Italy (I think the Bolognese manuscripts speak extensively of it. Might be misremembering) I'm really looking forward to some viable sword and shield action in PoE. I'm strongly considering a saber/sword and shield using rogue for my first character. 

[Jarmo]

That targe and shield reminds me...

 

One thing which is a rather teeny bit late to point out now,

is how weapons and armor adopted, is not in isolation of the probable opponents.

 

So a country that's mostly fighting light skirmishers probably wouldn't wield super heavy

armor or weapons designed to combat pierce heavy armor.

 

While a frontier village where the significant threat is attacks by wyverns and trolls,

would probably use stuff that's effective against them, halberds, spears and stuff,

not likely flimsy dueling swords.

 

Not sure how this works in Poe, I hope it does but usually fantasy worlds

don't pay much attention to stuff like that.

[Suburban-Fox]

Yeah, this is one thing that fantasy RPGs almost never get right. In reality, if you're fighting a huge bug-like creature with thick chitinous armour, single-handed swords aren't going to be much use against it. You'll need long handled beaked hammers, and things like that, to break the shell.

 

Personally, I think it'd be interesting to see the appearance of weapons designed to fight specific foes - maybe a heavy cleaver type sword would be used against treants, while they'd have fire arrows to kill trolls, and some special kind of extra-long awlspike for use against giant spiders and scorpions.

 

Of course, the problem with that is that RPGs tend to feature the heroes fighting many different enemies, and can't really be expected to carry a golf-bag full of weapons because they never know whether they're going to face a troll, or a wyvern, or a gorgon, so while it'd be nice to have this flavour, normal weapons should still do something - they won't be as effective as weapons designed with that function in mind, but it'd be horrible if the only weapon that could hurt this particular monster just happens to be the one weapon you forgot to buy.

[Lephys]

Of course, the problem with that is that RPGs tend to feature the heroes fighting many different enemies, and can't really be expected to carry a golf-bag full of weapons because they never know whether they're going to face a troll, or a wyvern, or a gorgon, so while it'd be nice to have this flavour, normal weapons should still do something - they won't be as effective as weapons designed with that function in mind, but it'd be horrible if the only weapon that could hurt this particular monster just happens to be the one weapon you forgot to buy.

I just got the most vivid image of an adventurer traveling around with a caddy:

 

"Cedric! Fetch me my 9-Mithril!"

[Jarmo]

 I just got the most vivid image of an adventurer traveling around with a caddy:

"Cedric! Fetch me my 9-Mithril!"

 

 

I think, back in the day a caddy was called a squire.

[Karranthain]

That targe and shield reminds me...

 

One thing which is a rather teeny bit late to point out now,

is how weapons and armor adopted, is not in isolation of the probable opponents.

 

So a country that's mostly fighting light skirmishers probably wouldn't wield super heavy

armor or weapons designed to combat pierce heavy armor.

 

While a frontier village where the significant threat is attacks by wyverns and trolls,

would probably use stuff that's effective against them, halberds, spears and stuff,

not likely flimsy dueling swords.

 

Not sure how this works in Poe, I hope it does but usually fantasy worlds

don't pay much attention to stuff like that.

 

So much this. Culture should also play a role. It's an often overlooked detail, but one that does wonders for verisimilitude.

 

By the way, I'm rather surprised this topic hasn't been flooded by spear related pictures and artworks yet

[Suburban-Fox]

By the way, I'm rather surprised this topic hasn't been flooded by spear related pictures and artworks yet

 

 

 

Just for you! ;-)

 

Although this does actually illustrate what we were talking about, with weapons designed for a specific purpose. The idea behind the boar spear is that the guard behind the spear head helps to stop the boar running down the shaft and goring the person behind it.

[lolaldanee]

i do not want to be hit by any of those

Edited June 6, 2014 by lolaldanee

[HoonDing]

Someone post more hawt chicks in armour kthxbai

[Lephys]

I think, back in the day a caddy was called a squire.

 

Po-tay-toh, po-tah-toh. A helper lad (or lass, though historically improbable) carrying a golf bag full of weaponry is a hilarious image, if you ask me.

[Tsuga C]

i do not want to be hit by any of those

Nor did the barbarians against which the Legions fought. Those pilums could not only punch through people with aplomb, they also functioned as dandy shield removers. Once a shield was impaled by the heavy pilum (note weight between metal fore-shaft and wooden after-shaft), the shield's owner was forced to dump it and fight the legionary without his first (and frequently only) line of defense.

 

Clever guys, those Romans.

[Lephys]

Clever guys, those Romans.

Such high cell phone bills, though. 'Cause they were always Roman...