Hopes on female armors design

[Lephys]

When you guys see real evidence to suggest the game is a flop feel free to post, but all we have up to now is some unknown "journalist" making iffy not even that bad comments based on a alpha.

True that. I wouldn't decide based on some comments about some cake batter that that cake wasn't going to deliver on some cake promise.

[Wombat]

To some extent, I understand attachment to familiar systems and I, too, hope the gameplay will stay within my liking.  However, at the same time, I cannot but wonder if our fixed ideas/presumptions are ruining potentially better game experience... 

 

Personally, so far, I'm happy with the provided info.  Even if some info doesn't match my images, there are almost always caliculated purposes for them, which is vital when I choose PnP games.  I don't let my expectation go skyhigh for any crowd-funding project, either.

[Elerond]

Bioware EA claims that DA:O is spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which is quite generally accepted to be true claim. As everything that I know about PoE points that game will be much closer to Baldur's Gate (and other IE games) mechanically, thematically, atmospherically and aesthetically than what DA:O is, so in my opinion claims that PoE isn't spiritual successor for IE games are bit extravagant, as they are mostly aimed towards some game mechanic changes that people feel to be inferior to mechanics in IE games, even though impact what these changes have towards gameplay is quite minor as they focus mainly to balancing different roleplay choices and trying to removing some loop holes that IE games have in their mechanics. IMO.

[tajerio]

Bioware EA claims that DA:O is spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which is quite generally accepted to be true claim. 

 

I don't think that claim is broadly accepted at all.  Certainly not in this community.  I'm very forgiving towards claims of spiritual succession, and even I don't buy that one.

 

I suspect also that all but the most committed skeptics would agree that the PoE apple is not going to fall nearly as far from the tree as the DA:O one did.

Edited February 5, 2014 by tajerio

[rjshae]

 

Bioware EA claims that DA:O is spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which is quite generally accepted to be true claim. 

 

I don't think that claim is broadly accepted at all.  Certainly not in this community.  I'm very forgiving towards claims of spiritual succession, and even I don't buy that one.

 

I suspect also that all but the most committed skeptics would agree that the PoE apple is not going to fall nearly as far from the tree as the DA:O one did.

 

If anything, DA:O was the spiritual successor to NWN2.

[Elerond]

 

Bioware EA claims that DA:O is spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, which is quite generally accepted to be true claim. 

 

I don't think that claim is broadly accepted at all.  Certainly not in this community.  I'm very forgiving towards claims of spiritual succession, and even I don't buy that one.

 

I suspect also that all but the most committed skeptics would agree that the PoE apple is not going to fall nearly as far from the tree as the DA:O one did.

 

 

Quite many reviews at time of it release were quite fast to proclaim that it is a worthy (spiritual) successor for BG series, even though it isn't BG3. And forum chats (in popular gaming sites and BSN) somewhat agree although there is no real consensus is it better or worse than BG games.

 

Spiritual successor is very difficult to actually specify accurately as for some it is enough that game has same thematic than game that it claims to be successor, some want mechanics to be same and similar thematic is only plus not necessary thing to include and some what both. And some goes to even further and want game to be about same in all aspects. Which it is important in my opinion that makers of spiritual successor always tell what they mean with term spiritual successor and what their goals are with their game that takes role of successor. In my opinion Obsidian was quite clear what they meant with term and what their design goals are during Kickstarter campaign and their idea of its meaning differentiate from meaning which some people use the term. 

[Monte Carlo]

@ Sawyer, I see what you're getting at, thx for reply etc but I still disagree. Make first aid a healing-lite skill and make alchemy / access to potions easier and problem solved IMO. Ditto access to regeneration abilities and enhanced damage reduction. All of this would mitigate need for a cleric / healer without having to drastically alter things. But that's by-the-by now.

 

As for DA:O, well it's not a bad game, I enjoyed it, but it's not a spiritual successor to the BGs. Hell, they said NWN was the successor to BG. If I made a game as wildly successful as the Bgs I'd be tempted to claim my new range of blueberry pop-tarts were the spiritual successor to the BGs.

[ManifestedISO]

downsides, such as lack of feeling, charisma penalties and a tendency to berserk when wounded, which grew more extreme as time went on.

 

Marriage?

[Karkarov]

As for DA:O, well it's not a bad game, I enjoyed it, but it's not a spiritual successor to the BGs. Hell, they said NWN was the successor to BG. If I made a game as wildly successful as the Bgs I'd be tempted to claim my new range of blueberry pop-tarts were the spiritual successor to the BGs.

I always find this stuff sort of funny.  You do know Dragon Age Origins is (unless ME3 topped it) the highest selling Bioware game to date...  I am willing to bet it sold more copies in it's first three months than Baldur's Gate did in it's first two years.

[obyknven]

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS. Do want realism.

 

In my personal point of view - Western holy war against sexism it's just yet another form of stupidity. For example we can remember last media attacks against Dragon's Crown.

 

Just typical non-educated religious fools.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

@ Sawyer, I see what you're getting at, thx for reply etc but I still disagree. Make first aid a healing-lite skill and make alchemy / access to potions easier and problem solved IMO. Ditto access to regeneration abilities and enhanced damage reduction. All of this would mitigate need for a cleric / healer without having to drastically alter things. But that's by-the-by now.

 

I like how healing is done in Warhammer 40K and Traveller being First Aid skills. Both games are set in Earth's future so there's a certain realism to it. And it can take some time to get back to full health. This is okay because at times you're travelling vast distances and taking weeks to get from one place to another. Something you can't really do in D&D. In D&D you can be back at full health with a couple of spells.

 

When it comes to D&D a lot of the realism is thrown out, especially Divine Power and I wonder if taking part of that divine power from classes like Clerics and turning it into a First Aid skill for any class is the right choice. Then what does the Cleric become when part of that Divine Power is gone? Or are you suggesting the Cure Light wounds spell be replaced by a First Aid skill and the more powerful Healing spells are still handled by the designated healers? I don't think that's going to get around the bigger battles where the more powerful healing spells are required and First Aid won't be as effective. It's okay for low level games like BG1, but when you get up to level 10+, I rarely used Cure Light when more powerful healing spells are available. And First Aid would be the same. I have no answers.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Monte Carlo]

When it comes to D&D a lot of the realism is thrown out, especially Divine Power and I wonder if taking part of that divine power from classes like Clerics and turning it into a First Aid skill for any class is the right choice. Then what does the Cleric become when part of that Divine Power is gone? Or are you suggesting the Cure Light wounds spell be replaced by a First Aid skill and the more powerful Healing spells are still handled by the designated healers? I don't think that's going to get around the bigger battles where the more powerful healing spells are required and First Aid won't be as effective. It's okay for low level games like BG1, but when you get up to level 10+, I rarely used Cure Light when more powerful healing spells are available. And First Aid would be the same. I have no answers.

 

 

 

Clerics and divine spellcasters should be your primary healers, but not the sole owners of the ability to heal. In much the same way that the primary melee killer is normally your fighter, but all characters can use weapons and be effective. Just not as effective. However, mass healing, the ability to raise the dead and cure the most serious wounds and curses should be the preserve of the cleric and / or equivalents. Removing this thing to implement an entirely new system is what irks me.

 

How?

 

* First aid or healing skills - maybe tribal, maybe scientific but these should scale from a rough D&D cure light wounds to cure moderate wounds level.

 

* Other class abilities - Monks and Ciphers look very interesting classes in PoE. They use psionics and sheer force of will. I'm sure it isn't beyond the bounds of credibility for those energies to be focussed, if the player decides to develop their character in that direction, as healers. Maybe a Cipher can share his powers with a third party to force fast healing. Maybe a monk can donate hit points in a sort of reverse-vampiric blood-rite. All interesting ways of developing your characters and configuring a party. Imagine a monk you develop as a hit point donor or a cipher who becomes a living reservoir of healing will-power for his party, enabling a hive-mind that restores health?

 

* Technology and alchemy - maybe characters can make poultices, potions, ointments and drugs. These could range from Fallout style healing-with-risks to pseudo-scientific combat drugs with a range of benefits at higher levels. Developing a mage or wilderness character in this direction would be interesting. Thud the Barbarian, when not cracking skulls, is a dab hand at that tribal healing gunk that makes you as high as a kite whereas Brains the Mage is basically Walter White and makes drugs that do all sorts of ****, including healing.

 

* Regeneration and high-level bad-assery - this includes healing surge type powaz, for say paladins who by virtue of their discipline begin to self-heal. Thud the Barbarian gets a high level wolf curse that enables him to regenerate while beserk but lose strength afterwards. Bob the Ranger, on the other hand, can donate / leech hitpoints from Fido the giant badger animal companion.

 

This is on-the-fly stuff. It's different from D&D but still supports a simple HP / healing paradigm that's easy to understand.

 

Sorry about the character names. It's early.

[Wombat]

The alternatives don't sound too far from making each class self-sufficient or shifting them into more like skill system with another axis of choosing high or low magic tones, which has been suggested quite a few times already.  Personally, I prefer a skill system and wouldn't mind such direction but...

[Merlkir]

 

Just typical non-educated religious fools.

 

Obyknven, I assume you're talking about yourself?

Fertility deities have never had anything to do with necromancy, the "life giving" aspect refers to the natural cycle of life and death (raising livestock and growing crops). Raising a zombie is hardly natural, right? Now, we'd have to ask the designer of those characters what he thought and that would settle this particular dispute. But without any actual examples of necromancy in fertility cults, I'm calling bull**** on your "educated" hypothesis.

[PrimeJunta]

It's funny how different people latch onto different things as essential to the IE experience. Many of these are in fact the things I don't like about them. Some that have come up are grinding for XP, hard counters, obvious dump stats, rogues as relatively useless combatants, clerics as required healers.

 

I suppose that's quite human. When we develop an attachment to something, we often become especially attached to the flaws. I remember a Top Gear episode where that obnoxious older guy was complaining that the Abarth 500 just isn't the same as the old, great Abarths because it's not completely stupid, as in, it's possible to get into the back seat, there's room in the boot for things, and the engine doesn't overheat so bad they would have to leave off the cover. There really is something to that.

 

Maybe the IE games were like British sports cars of yore where having two out of oil pressure, temperature, and electricity working at the same time is pretty good really. If PoE turns out to be a Toyota, will it be as lovable? 

 

I sure hope so, because demanding that games be worse to be better seems like a dead end to me.

[Agremont]

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS. Do want realism.

 

 

In my personal point of view - Western holy war against sexism it's just yet another form of stupidity. For example we can remember last media attacks against Dragon's Crown.

 

 

Just typical non-educated religious fools.

 

What's that got to do with armor?

[JFSOCC]

I think there should be a golden platemail codpiece. It devastates foes with bolts of pure sexy.

the magical version can also pick locks.

[milczyciel]

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS. Do want realism.

In my personal point of view - Western holy war against sexism it's just yet another form of stupidity. For example we can remember last media attacks against Dragon's Crown.

 

 

Just typical non-educated religious fools.

Well... that's... stunning

 

I'm not religious at all, but I'll admit I'm not educated. As for being fool - I can't decide.

But following the logic of that picture - male necromancers should be blessed with huge penises (life giving) and to fit the "art style" should all wear spandex leggings so we could all bask in the glory of their juggling "class attributes"?

 

No thanks... I rather stay an ignorant, non-educated fool.

[Merlkir]

I would pledge additional money to get an NPC of a fertility god's paladin/cleric with a massive metal **** on his armour.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Looks like Oby got a few; hook, line, and sinker.

[Wombat]

rogues as relatively useless combatants

Just for clarification, in my personal case (as if you mind), I'd like the rogue to be useful in combat but not as a heavy-hitter.  That said, I understand the designers have to decide both weaknesses and strengthes of each class and that expecting every single trait they choose for it fits our own personal image on it is plain unrealistic.  We backers decided to let the team "DM" our game and, basically, I trust Sawyer and his team on that.

[PrimeJunta]

@Wombat I think it's largely a matter of terminology. Some of the words in PoE don't mean what we're used to them meaning, if you get my drift. There was a lot of anxiety about that in the attribute thread. There is something odd about a heavy-hitting rogue, or a Mighty wizard for that matter.

 

Personally I don't care all that much. It's largely a matter of what you're used to. Int, Wis, and Cha don't really make much sense either, and there are plenty of rogue fantasy archetypes who excel at dealing death in melee -- the Gray Mouser comes to mind, and as a swordsman he was second to none, even Fafhrd. I can see how it would bother some of the more conservative-minded amongst us though.

[Wombat]

Yeah, it's just my personal preference/fantasy in which I would like, at least, a possible rogue build to be indirect and manipulative even in combat.  However, I have no intention of being obsessed by the notion and I agree that quite many things are inexplicable in RPG systems in general.

[Oneiromancer]

 

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS. Do want realism.

In my personal point of view - Western holy war against sexism it's just yet another form of stupidity. For example we can remember last media attacks against Dragon's Crown.

 

 

Just typical non-educated religious fools.

Well... that's... stunning

 

I'm not religious at all, but I'll admit I'm not educated. As for being fool - I can't decide.

But following the logic of that picture - male necromancers should be blessed with huge penises (life giving)

 

I'm not sure there is any truth in Obyk theory (especially considering how much George Kamitami loves to draw big breasted women whether or not the characters are necromancers) but you're confusing genitals with breasts and procreation with feeding.

While huge male genitalia (especially erect ones) can be a fertility symbol they would also not fit the nurturing theme Vanillaware's necromancers have.

A necromancer with a constantly erected huge **** summoning undeads through the "life-giving" powers of said sexual organ would be quite amusing to play as, though I guess it would also be more controversial than a big breasted sorceress.

 

edit

for the record I wrote "peni s" not sure why it was censored

Edited February 5, 2014 by Oneiromancer

[Karkarov]

I'm not sure there is any truth in Obyk theory (especially considering how much George Kamitami loves to draw big breasted women whether or not the characters are necromancers) but you're confusing genitals with breasts and procreation with feeding.

While huge male genitalia (especially erect ones) can be a fertility symbol they would also not fit the nurturing theme Vanillaware's necromancers have.

A necromancer with a constantly erected huge **** summoning undeads through the "life-giving" powers of said sexual organ would be quite amusing to play as, though I guess it would also be more controversial than a big breasted sorceress.

I like Dragon's Crown as much as the next guy, hell was playing it not two hours ago.  That said I cant be the only person who is mildly perturbed by the direction this thread has taken?  Let's stick to armor instead of idiotic arguments trying to justify why a Japanese guy likes draw chicks with big breasts.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Karkarov