Playing other Kickstarter funded games makes me nervous

[Terodemmah]

 

 

Yeah, MMX is an optimized piece of garbage. I'm on a SSD, high-end processor/gpu with plenty of memory -- load times are playstation 1 levels and the game stutters like crazy in certain places like the forest. Despite all of that I put in like 8 hours and enjoyed it ok despite the awful, senseless skill balance. Going to wait for modders to fix/balance the game before picking it back up

 

 

Seems like the problem with MMX is a bad case of over-ambitious developers going totally crazy. From the forum on Steam I've read that they basically overdid it with their graphics. Number of shadows in shops are extreme making it a laggy experience to go in shops. They used something like 1200 high poly assets for a simple floor-tile which is insane (just passing that knowledge. I'm such a noob when it comes to programming, I basically can't say wheter that's too much or not but from reading the Steam forum it's definetly not the best decision by the dev's). Looks like they made a game that would look great if all scenes were static and basic screenshots but doesn't work in actual gameplay. The memory leaks caused by that terrible programming are reported to be mind-numbingly extreme. 

 

As far as I remember some of the problems with Shadowrun Returns' audio stuttering were caused by Unitys problem with hyperthreading. I hope that it's something that has been solved by the latest version of Unity. 

 

As for waiting for a modder to save the MMX game I wish you good luck. It's 1500 bucks to buy the Unity program to do the modding needed but with the problems it seems it needs to basically be completely redesigned. Something tells me Limbic won't be doing another M&M game in the near future (if ever). 

 

As Scorpio stated I'm also putting my faith in this crew to make a truly remarkable crpg as they've shown time and again that they are capable of. But I still can't help wishing that they had built their own engine for it which would've been handy in future releases as well. I know it's expensive and timeconsuming but it would be so nice to see a new reboot of the Infinity Engine (there I go again...dreaming). 

[Infinitron]

MMX is a great game and a real labor of love. It doesn't need to be "saved". I don't understand the bizarre hatedom that it's attracted.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Infinitron

[Terodemmah]

MMX is a great game and a real labor of love. It doesn't need to be "saved". I don't understand the bizarre hatedom that it's attracted.

 

There's no hate on my behalf. But I would've expected a retro-style game with pretty low system requirements to run stable at least. That's not what people are reporting, though. The game seems to stutter like crazy when outside in the game. This is the same conclusion my friend came to after a few hours of play. Dungeons and towns work somewhat fine then outside it's pretty much unplayable with FPS dropping to around 10. 

 

If I had purchased a game that's so badly programmed it runs at 10 FPS I would be pretty negative too. 

[AwesomeOcelot]

...there is no reason why you should not be able to use WASD to move. 

There's no reason why you'd want to, and there are reasons why you shouldn't be able i.e. the way they've implemented pathing.

[Karkarov]

Well it looks like I gotta take back those words I said earlier about the Unity Engine. I just seen Blackguards being played and it looks pretty smooth running on Unity. I could argue that it's turnbased and so on but it looks as though Unity functions pretty well if games are programmed properly. Seeing Blackguards made me get my hopes back up for PoE. 

I was going to say you may be blaming bad coders/programming on the engine.  No engine has more respect out there than the Unreal Engine from Epic for example but that didn't help Too Human did it?  You want to look up a game with a crap reputation and terrible reviews look no further than that one.  It's problems definitely weren't from the engine.

 

In MMX land.... The people making those reviews must have crap PC's.  I see some drags in the heavy forest areas of the overworld that's about it.  I certainly get no lag in shops.  The worst bug I have run into at this point is fairly often now I will get in combat, with the fight, etc.... but the combat music just keeps playing.  That sort of gets annoying after a few minutes and sadly has to be fixed by quitting the game and rebooting from scratch. 

[Sheikh]

I have the opposite experience, all the Kickstarter projects I've played have done nothing but reinforce my hopes and expectations.  But I don't expect AAA titles from Kickstarter, I expect games that embrace different styles of gameplay and tell less traditional stories.  I expect games that let me reminisce about the classics while enjoying newer graphics and and modern UI's.  

 

I've gotten that out of Shadowrun Returns, FTL, Banner Sage, Expeditions: Conquistador...I think I might have forgotten a few, but you get the point.

I dont play any "AAA" games at all and its nothing of the like that I expect from PE. I expect an "oldschool" game, though games like IWD2 and BG are very alive in my book. I still play them from time to time. If PE can be like one of those games Im already happy because its something new of the kind I like.

[devastat]

I have decided not to back another kickstarter funded game, since almost every project I have backed have not been able to keep up with their promises.. 

 

In almost all cases, the release date are (purposely?) way too optimistic and systematically every deadline is missed, and features are most often underwhelming to what have been promised in the beginning in the campaign.

 

I payed 100 pounds for the Elite Dangerous beta in the good faith of playing it on february, but the schedule is now way behind in the alpha and I don't expect to be taking part in the beta before April.

 

People are pouring lots of money into Star Citizen, and they couldn't even deliver a single dogfight module by christmas even that was promised early on.. (it is now likely to arrive on april).

 

Also I haven't been very impressed yet with the early beta versions of some games I've been able to play such as Wasteland 2 - but all in all offcourse what really matters is what the product will be in the end and I am hopful that they will deliver in the end..

[Printer]

SRR was okay(not great, just average) in my book and the second half of the game should be on the way along with more features. I'm slightly optimistic that Berlin will be more interesting than Seattle.

 

Obsidian received a much bigger KS funding than HBS, so that should help to create a better CRPG.

[Elerond]

Alphas and Betas are for testing tech, game mechanics, game balance, etc. and even more so in kickstarter projects than typical publishing models.

 

So they aren't actually meant to impress people and therefore they lack lot of polish that will be done after everything else is working satisfactorily. Which is reason why in typical publishing models most games don't do alpha and beta releases for public and when they do they are usually in last states of beta testing when they are testing server capacity requirements, looking final game balance issues and maybe getting some publicity for the game.

 

Star Citizen looks to me particularly difficult project as they have gotten so much money that in all probably many people except that even their tech tests are made with quality that people except from finished games, which I think is reason why they pushed their release date back, so that they can polish their art work and put features in that such tech test wouldn't normally have.

[Hassat Hunter]

Lol @ "The release dates!"

Give me one game that isn't delayed.

Does it suck? Is it crapridden with bugs?

Do you *want* that for the game you financed?

[Shadowmant]

FTL - Fantastic game.  I have nothing bad to say 

Star Command - They didn't deliver everything they hoped to but the game was still pretty fun.

Shadowrun Returns - They have only delivered half so far (and announced the second half).  Pretty fun, good story but linear.  Second half is supposed to be less linear.

Banner Saga - Had fun with their PvP portion.  Really great battle system.  Not tried the PvE version the kickstarter was for though.

Expeditions: Conquistador - I didn't even realize this was a kickstarter game when I bought it.  Had a lot of fun with it. 

Battleworld Kronos - Just didn't click with me and I didn't enjoy the game.   

 

So far I've been happy overall with the games I've played.  I haven't run into any situations of the developer just running off with my money or a game being significantly different than what was promised.  I'd say I've had much more disappointment with steam sale impulse buys and "official" pre-orders than I have with the kickstarted games I've gotten, but hey, millage may vary.

[Bryy]

 

...there is no reason why you should not be able to use WASD to move. 

There's no reason why you'd want to, and there are reasons why you shouldn't be able i.e. the way they've implemented pathing.

 

That's like saying there's no reason for fish to fly because they are meant to swim.

 

They had a discussion on movement, they made a choice, I, the individual customer, didn't like it. They were not forced via engine to use that movement mechanic.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Bryy

[AwesomeOcelot]

 

 

...there is no reason why you should not be able to use WASD to move. 

There's no reason why you'd want to, and there are reasons why you shouldn't be able i.e. the way they've implemented pathing.

 

That's like saying there's no reason for fish to fly because they are meant to swim.

 

They had a discussion on movement, they made a choice, I, the individual customer, didn't like it. They were not forced via engine to use that movement mechanic.

 

It seriously isn't, it's more like wanting to eat soup with chopsticks.

 

There's a difference between disgreeing with a design choice and saying there's no reason for something. There's plenty of reasons for why they made that decision, technical limitations aren't a requirement to being a reason.

[Bryy]

 

 

 

...there is no reason why you should not be able to use WASD to move. 

There's no reason why you'd want to, and there are reasons why you shouldn't be able i.e. the way they've implemented pathing.

 

That's like saying there's no reason for fish to fly because they are meant to swim.

 

They had a discussion on movement, they made a choice, I, the individual customer, didn't like it. They were not forced via engine to use that movement mechanic.

 

It seriously isn't, it's more like wanting to eat soup with chopsticks.

 

There's a difference between disgreeing with a design choice and saying there's no reason for something. There's plenty of reasons for why they made that decision, technical limitations aren't a requirement to being a reason.

 

Did you read the part of my post where I said it was my personal opinion?

[Terodemmah]

 

Well it looks like I gotta take back those words I said earlier about the Unity Engine. I just seen Blackguards being played and it looks pretty smooth running on Unity. I could argue that it's turnbased and so on but it looks as though Unity functions pretty well if games are programmed properly. Seeing Blackguards made me get my hopes back up for PoE. 

I was going to say you may be blaming bad coders/programming on the engine.  No engine has more respect out there than the Unreal Engine from Epic for example but that didn't help Too Human did it?  You want to look up a game with a crap reputation and terrible reviews look no further than that one.  It's problems definitely weren't from the engine.

 

In MMX land.... The people making those reviews must have crap PC's.  I see some drags in the heavy forest areas of the overworld that's about it.  I certainly get no lag in shops.  The worst bug I have run into at this point is fairly often now I will get in combat, with the fight, etc.... but the combat music just keeps playing.  That sort of gets annoying after a few minutes and sadly has to be fixed by quitting the game and rebooting from scratch. 

 

 

Well wheter people have bad PC's or not I'll let you be the judge of. Here's a link for a thread on Steam where people complain that the game runs like crap despite their machinces living up to and far beyond minimum spec's for the game: http://steamcommunity.com/app/238750/discussions/0/558746089016714487/

Ubi's own forum>> http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/826475-Game-runs-like-crap-with-stuttering-amp-low-FPS-Settings-don-t-matter-High-end-rig?s=a2c301cd03018f9db94cfd0ea80a6458

 

Why you don't have any problems, at least in shops, where the dev's themselves acknowledged they went far over the top with shadows making it a jumpy as hell experience is something I don't understand (If you wanna read that statement from the devs about the "over-the-top-and-beyond" shadow issue in shops I'll gladly try and find it for you).

 

Still haven't seen an engine that heats your GPU like Unity though 

Edited February 2, 2014 by Terodemmah

[Terodemmah]

Well I got bored and started looking for that post about excessive shadows in shops in MMX and the developers acknowledgement of that and found this ....>> http://www.reddit.com/r/tabled/comments/1w1xae/table_iama_we_are_might_magic_x_legacy_team_we/ 

 

Look for it a few questions down. 

[Juneau]

Haven't read all of the pages and previous posts but for those that are.

I've back a couple of games, SR:R and W2 been two. Shadowrun was dull.. In the end I rushed through my play through and never went back. I was very VERY disappointed in how easy/linear and repetitive it was.

Wasteland 2 is in early access stage so still getting better but its UI is horrible, I can't get a resolution to work that makes the text readable on the inventory which when you wear glasses it result in me getting a headache if I play for too long and as much as its a survival, make you health and ammo count type thing, I find it too a little slow and dull. I've made my posts on the dev forum and will leave that game until its finished and hope they make it playable.

 

These two games have made me worry that this game is going to go down the same path and when you've spent around triple the price of a AAA game it is indeed a worry some thing. However, we're not some title, turnbased game where you press the same action to win everytime. so SAYING THAT. If this game has a story that is worth playing through and lasts more then 18hours I'll be happy, even if it's not as good as I hope it will be (which it probably won't be (pessimistic sad panda))

I'm really looking forward to seeing a small 2 minute section of gamepaly. Even in its early stage just to get an idea as to what one event plays like.

[Bryy]

These two games have made me worry that this game is going to go down the same path and when you've spent around triple the price of a AAA game it is indeed a worry some thing.

 

Good thing they've spent nowhere near the price of a AAA game.

[Shadowmant]

 

 

These two games have made me worry that this game is going to go down the same path and when you've spent around triple the price of a AAA game it is indeed a worry some thing.

 

Good thing they've spent nowhere near the price of a AAA game.

 

 

 

Or cost the same either.  SR:R is $20 and W2 is going to be $25 (I believe) on release.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Shadowmant

[DCParry]

Lol @ "The release dates!"

Give me one game that isn't delayed.

Does it suck? Is it crapridden with bugs?

Do you *want* that for the game you financed?

 

I understand this thinking, but often it goes too far and people think automatically more time equals better game. If you mismanaged or made too many promises for 8 months, another 2 months isn't magically going to fix your product. Sometimes, longer development can help a developer create a more stable, overall better game. More development time does not guarantee a more stable, overall better. 

 

Sometimes, no matter how much you polish a turd....

[Juneau]

 

 

These two games have made me worry that this game is going to go down the same path and when you've spent around triple the price of a AAA game it is indeed a worry some thing.

 

Good thing they've spent nowhere near the price of a AAA game.

 

 

 

Or cost the same either.  SR:R is $20 and W2 is going to be $25 (I believe) on release.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting a AAA game, I backed the amount I did because of past games that are still my favourite (I replayed NWM and IWD last year... again) and I'm looking forward to a rich story, in depth magics and a desire to lead a group of adventurers on a mighty quest.

 

I'm basing how this game was sold to me on Kickstarter as a comparison to those games.

 

SRR and W2 have let me down so far and those games I only backed minimal amounts because I was always worried they wouldn't be great. Because of how they turned out/are currently I understand is concerns and I do worry, I backed a decent amount for a game that won't be AAA  in terms of gameplay, graphics etc.. but I do hope gameplay wise it is as good as it can be and that the story and the world itself are worth it and not some 8 hour stomp through....

 

Also W2 is the same as a AAA priced game ( £34.99 on Steam, I bought CoD Ghosts for £29.99 )

Edited February 4, 2014 by Juneau

[Infinitron]

W2 is not going to be $25.

[Bryy]

 

 

 

These two games have made me worry that this game is going to go down the same path and when you've spent around triple the price of a AAA game it is indeed a worry some thing.

 

Good thing they've spent nowhere near the price of a AAA game.

 

 

 

Or cost the same either.  SR:R is $20 and W2 is going to be $25 (I believe) on release.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting a AAA game, I backed the amount I did because of past games that are still my favourite (I replayed NWM and IWD last year... again) and I'm looking forward to a rich story, in depth magics and a desire to lead a group of adventurers on a mighty quest.

 

I'm basing how this game was sold to me on Kickstarter as a comparison to those games.

 

SRR and W2 have let me down so far and those games I only backed minimal amounts because I was always worried they wouldn't be great. Because of how they turned out/are currently I understand is concerns and I do worry, I backed a decent amount for a game that won't be AAA  in terms of gameplay, graphics etc.. but I do hope gameplay wise it is as good as it can be and that the story and the world itself are worth it and not some 8 hour stomp through....

 

Also W2 is the same as a AAA priced game ( £34.99 on Steam, I bought CoD Ghosts for £29.99 )

 

 

Oh. You meant the price at market. I thought you meant that AAA games were all made for $10-$20k.

 

Even in that case, people need to eat. Rent needs to be paid. You price items at what you think would net you a profit, or at least break even. And especially for Kickstarter games, where they already are giving away a boatload of free product. We're not Obsidian's accountants. We're not any of these game companies accountants. 

 

The idea that only "AAA games" need to be/should be priced high is a fallacy. $70 games are $70 for a reason. $500 iPads are $500 for a reason. These prices are not arbitrarily slapped on the product by some evil, shadowy suit in a dark room.

[Bollockoff]

I finished The Banner Saga yesterday. It was rather good.

[Spike Spiegel 28]

To be honest for me it is actually the other way around. I am even looking more forward to PoE now. FTL was and still is very enjoyable to play. Shadow Run Returns does have a couple of minor issues (the most annoying one beeing the missing save system which they will finally fix with the next patch) and was a little to linear but it still was a good game which I had and still do have resonable fun with. Have not played the Banner Saga but I have heard nothing but good things about it. Wasteland 2 is in its early beta stage so judging it would feel a tad silly to say the least (so from what I have played sofar it seems they are on a good path). Hex is still in Alpha but like Wasteland 2 it seems to be getting better and better with each patch. And from all I heard Divinity Original Sin will be a great game aswell. And last but by no means least War for the Overworld. This game is shaping up to become a wet dream come true for every fan of the Dungeon Keeper franchise from everything I have played sofar. So yeah all of those games make me rather more excited than nervous for PoE.