Cosmology of P:E

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I very much enjoyed the cosmology of D&D. I liked the different planes (prime, elemental, negative, abyss, hell, etc.) and felt they really worked well in both constructing "the beyond", but explaining concepts of after-life, divinity and general frame work of existence. Given that these guys were largely responsible for Planescape: Torment, I imagine that some planar distinctions will exist, but how far will they deviate from prior/earlier concepts? I personally liked what Dragon Age:Origins attempted to do with "The Fade", but the delivery was awful.

 

Is there anything you guys want out of a certain cosmology or is it not particularly important to you? What kind of concepts do you guys have which might refine or go beyond convention, or break molds entirely?

[SophosTheWise]

I just hope that the whole soul-thing doesn't result in cheesy pseudo-philosophy. It has a lot of potential, but it's also easily ****upable. Wow, what a word.

[CaptainMace]

Well I don't mind what kind of parrallel universe (let's call it that way) they put or not in the game, I just hope it doesn't feel too overthought. This kind of stuff either has to be mysterious or shouldn't be at all.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I personally liked what Dragon Age:Origins attempted to do with "The Fade", but the delivery was awful.

 

To be fair, they've stolen the whole concept from WoD (the Umbra in Mage and Werewolf). Except it was multi-layered and all kinds of awesome there, while in DA... not so much. So, they can't really be commended for the idea, either

Edited November 25, 2013 by aluminiumtrioxid

[JFSOCC]

I love multiple planes of existence, but maybe for a sequel? there is still so much to explore on this newly created world

[Messier-31]

AFAIK souls in Eternity let you reincarnate.

 

But what about the increase in populace? I mean that there were never enough souls sufficient to cover it.

[Boox]

Based on what we've been told in updates, I've understood that people don't generally know all that much about how souls work, etc. So maybe the more fundamental aspects are still unknown. I think I'd prefer it to be a mystery. I heartily agree with what SophostheWise wrote.

[SophosTheWise]

AFAIK souls in Eternity let you reincarnate.

 

But what about the increase in populace? I mean that there were never enough souls sufficient to cover it.

 

Huh, maybe that's the plot of PE. A crazy euthanasia animancer who tries to keep the population down, that leads to an overpopulation in souls and then **** hits the fan. Or something like this.

[Lephys]

To be fair, they've stolen the whole concept from WoD (the Umbra in Mage and Werewolf). Except it was multi-layered and all kinds of awesome there, while in DA... not so much. So, they can't really be commended for the idea, either

Is it not possible that they simply "invented" the idea without the knowledge of the idea's prior (and superior) existence?

 

Anywho, in line with what Sophos said, with the whole soul thing at play, I hope the cosmology is kept relatively simple, overall.

[CaptainMace]

 

To be fair, they've stolen the whole concept from WoD (the Umbra in Mage and Werewolf). Except it was multi-layered and all kinds of awesome there, while in DA... not so much. So, they can't really be commended for the idea, either

Is it not possible that they simply "invented" the idea without the knowledge of the idea's prior (and superior) existence?

 

Anywho, in line with what Sophos said, with the whole soul thing at play, I hope the cosmology is kept relatively simple, overall.

 

 

It is possible indeed, especially for some really vague concept like this one.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

To be fair, they've stolen the whole concept from WoD (the Umbra in Mage and Werewolf). Except it was multi-layered and all kinds of awesome there, while in DA... not so much. So, they can't really be commended for the idea, either

Is it not possible that they simply "invented" the idea without the knowledge of the idea's prior (and superior) existence?

 

I find it *extremely* unlikely that nobody in the dev team (who are presumably seasoned RPG veterans, and it stands to reason that they have some familiarity with tabletop, too) would know about the 90s' most popular* horror gameline. I mean seriously, what are the chances of that?

 

*Well, technically, it was Vampire, but Wta/MtA are part of the same game world, and I've never met a Vampire player who didn't have at least a passing familiarity with the other lines.

[teknoman2]

on this matter, one thing i do not like about forgoten realms, where most IE games were placed, is that the gods and death are something trivial... and i do not talk about resurection magic. gods exist and is an indisputable fact, not a theoretical assumption to explain priest magic... also afterlife exists as a proven fact, so there is no real mystery in death. death as such becomes a trivial formality on the way to the afterlife. and since there is no mystery, there should be no fear either... it actually is stranger that the people bother to live at all

so what i'd like in the PE cosmology, is gods that are more like something you hope exists and not a proven fact, and the fear of death to be a question of faith

[BruceVC]

I very much enjoyed the cosmology of D&D. I liked the different planes (prime, elemental, negative, abyss, hell, etc.) and felt they really worked well in both constructing "the beyond", but explaining concepts of after-life, divinity and general frame work of existence. Given that these guys were largely responsible for Planescape: Torment, I imagine that some planar distinctions will exist, but how far will they deviate from prior/earlier concepts? I personally liked what Dragon Age:Origins attempted to do with "The Fade", but the delivery was awful.

 

Is there anything you guys want out of a certain cosmology or is it not particularly important to you? What kind of concepts do you guys have which might refine or go beyond convention, or break molds entirely?

 

I also enjoyed  the way D&D presented the concept of the planes, gods and the afterlife. I still have my Manual of the Planes by Jeff Grubb

 

But we need to be realistic, the cosmology of D&D took years to develop and had several iterations. PE is a new fantasy IP so I don't expect too much detail when PE is released. I imagine the cosmology will become more complex as time goes on

[motorizer]

Every fantasy CRPG seems to have some sort of different planes of existence.

I'm not completely against the idea, but if it's just another rehash of the same old same old, then I'd rather they didn't bother.

 

I sometimes feel it's just an excuse to add crazy stuff that doesn't really fit in the actual gameworld, I'd rather they just made it all coherent.

Edited November 26, 2013 by motorizer

[nikolokolus]

I will say one thing about the old "official" D&D pantheon and cosmology, it was way too "on the nose" if you know what I mean? Mortals should NEVER have absolute certainty what the gods are like and what their ways and means are, or if they're even real. I think the way the supernatural is handled in a lot of fantasy novels and games is just plain dumb.

 

I don't know how Obsidian plans to tackle this stuff, but my own preference is that the forces of the Outer Dark remain ineffable and mysterious as much as possible. Servants of a god or goddess should always have a certain sense of unease or a gnawing doubt at the back of their mind about the aims, whims and plans of the divine.

[Karkarov]

I will say one thing about the old "official" D&D pantheon and cosmology, it was way too "on the nose" if you know what I mean? Mortals should NEVER have absolute certainty what the gods are like and what their ways and means are, or if they're even real. I think the way the supernatural is handled in a lot of fantasy novels and games is just plain dumb.

I think you are confusing D&D on the whole with the Forgotten Realms.  Plenty of D&D campaign worlds had very mysterious deities, or were totally unclear about their existence, powers, or motivations.  Ravenloft for example.

[nikolokolus]

 

I will say one thing about the old "official" D&D pantheon and cosmology, it was way too "on the nose" if you know what I mean? Mortals should NEVER have absolute certainty what the gods are like and what their ways and means are, or if they're even real. I think the way the supernatural is handled in a lot of fantasy novels and games is just plain dumb.

I think you are confusing D&D on the whole with the Forgotten Realms.  Plenty of D&D campaign worlds had very mysterious deities, or were totally unclear about their existence, powers, or motivations.  Ravenloft for example.

 

 

By official, I mean the handy little chart detailing the names and ordering of the planes in the back of the PHB for 1st ed. AD&D. Greyhawk was also pretty much bog standard fantasy and it was definitely the "official" setting for quite some time, Krynn was much the same too.

[drake heath]

*Double Post*

Edited November 29, 2013 by drake heath

[drake heath]

 

 

I will say one thing about the old "official" D&D pantheon and cosmology, it was way too "on the nose" if you know what I mean? Mortals should NEVER have absolute certainty what the gods are like and what their ways and means are, or if they're even real. I think the way the supernatural is handled in a lot of fantasy novels and games is just plain dumb.

I think you are confusing D&D on the whole with the Forgotten Realms.  Plenty of D&D campaign worlds had very mysterious deities, or were totally unclear about their existence, powers, or motivations.  Ravenloft for example.

 

 

By official, I mean the handy little chart detailing the names and ordering of the planes in the back of the PHB for 1st ed. AD&D. Greyhawk was also pretty much bog standard fantasy and it was definitely the "official" setting for quite some time, Krynn was much the same too.

 

Well, they'd kinda have too, and it's more for the DM anyways than for the players.

Some people can't make up entire planar existences on their own very well.

[TrashMan]

 

 

To be fair, they've stolen the whole concept from WoD (the Umbra in Mage and Werewolf). Except it was multi-layered and all kinds of awesome there, while in DA... not so much. So, they can't really be commended for the idea, either

Is it not possible that they simply "invented" the idea without the knowledge of the idea's prior (and superior) existence?

 

I find it *extremely* unlikely that nobody in the dev team (who are presumably seasoned RPG veterans, and it stands to reason that they have some familiarity with tabletop, too) would know about the 90s' most popular* horror gameline. I mean seriously, what are the chances of that?

 

*Well, technically, it was Vampire, but Wta/MtA are part of the same game world, and I've never met a Vampire player who didn't have at least a passing familiarity with the other lines.

 

 

 

Warhammer (40K) wants to say hi.

The Warp? The Psykers?

 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Warhammer (40K) wants to say hi.

The Warp? The Psykers?

 

Yupp, it's mostly a W40K-WoD mashup, as in "mages are all kinds of dangerous and a ****up leads to Nasty Things" (W40K), but the Fade itself is fairly hospitable, albeit dangerous (WoD).

[Calidor85]

It would be nice if "Torment: Tides of Numenera" is a part of the PE Cosmology .

 

Just wishful thinking  .

[hangedman1984]

It would be nice if "Torment: Tides of Numenera" is a part of the PE Cosmology .

 

Just wishful thinking  .

I don't know, I think it would be cool if there was some easter egg connecting the two settings, but nothing concrete and official.

[teknoman2]

i did mention in a very old thread that they could have easter eggs like: a character portrait from PE will decorate the wall of a house in torment or a mosaic in an old church in PE will show a landscape of torment and such. so mostly decorative stuff that you may or may not spot as you play, but no concrete interaction... it just doesn't fit