Almost a quarter of men 'admit to rape in parts of Asia'

[Nonek]

Many years ago I undertook surgery to have a small evergreen removed from my rectum, it worked and I now remain as ever the zany life and soul of the party.

[alanschu]

It makes much more sense now!

[Zoraptor]

she had on ocassion buttered his crumpets with flagrant abandon

I wish someone would butter my crumpets with flagrant abandon once in a while.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Perhaps it is just the fever, but I read the title as "Zoraptor admits to almost a quarter if rape in parts of Asia". I think I am in dire need of rest.

[Orogun01]

Perhaps it is just the fever, but I read the title as "Zoraptor admits to almost a quarter if rape in parts of Asia". I think I am in dire need of rest.

[Gromnir]

you folks is taking the wrong way. asian men see "rape" complete different. is gradations o' rape we just don't understand here in the west, and some rape is not crime so much as a display o' machismo.

 

sample question:  

 

when you hit the ski slopes, do you typically hit double black diamond runs?

 

now, ask men that question and we bet you get some inflation o' numbers. how many guys who rare do anything other than blue square is gonna thinks back to that one time they took wrong path and ended up the Devil's Tongue by mistake and use that to claims they is a black diamond skier? a braggadocio perhaps?  men in asia view certain kinds o' rape in a similar context. is more like reckless extreme sports than a crime. and don't ask us to explain how to distinguish rapes.

 

...

 

am not serious, but am not entirely joking neither... especially 'bout the gradations o' rape.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

you folks is taking the wrong way. asian men see "rape" complete different. is gradations o' rape we just don't understand here in the west, and some rape is not crime so much as a display o' machismo.

 

sample question:  

 

when you hit the ski slopes, do you typically hit double black diamond runs?

 

now, ask men that question and we bet you get some inflation o' numbers. how many guys who rare do anything other than blue square is gonna thinks back to that one time they took wrong path and ended up the Devil's Tongue by mistake and use that to claims they is a black diamond skier? a braggadocio perhaps?  men in asia view certain kinds o' rape in a similar context. is more like reckless extreme sports than a crime. and don't ask us to explain how to distinguish rapes.

 

...

 

am not serious, but am not entirely joking neither... especially 'bout the gradations o' rape.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I don't understand your skiing analogy in relation to rape? Can you explain it in normal English

 

Also I don't see how you can have different definitions of rape and how the Asians cannot believe what we believe as far as what is acceptable. Rape is not actually about the sex, its mostly about power and the thought of power over women. That doesn't change irrespective of where you live.

[Walsingham]

I'm not really clear how them treating rape as an extreme sport makes it less serious as a problem.

[HoonDing]

 

she had on ocassion buttered his crumpets with flagrant abandon

I wish someone would butter my crumpets with flagrant abandon once in a while.

 

 

[Meshugger]

What Gromnir is trying to say is that boundries between machismo and outright rape is much more diffuse in Asia, and at the same time being a rapist is an accidental effect due to said machismo.

 

I am not surprised either. Some languages do not even have the word 'rape' in their vocabulary (some african ones IIRC) and in other parts of the world the morality of rape is the same as having to eat cooked vegetables as a kid: Nobody wants it, but hey, you do not always get what you want in life anyway.

[TrashMan]

 

My colleague has been reading this and asked the question:

 

IF the woman can be so drunk that the law deems she is not responsible for her actions in giving 'consent'

 

THEN does it not follow that a man in an equal state of drunkenness cannot be held responsible for his actions in complying with that 'consent'?

 

Mmmm, that is an interesting view but the article for me talks about the word "yes" as being what is important . In other words if  a very drunk girl says " yes lets have sex" then the next day says she was raped the guy shouldn't be charged. But we also need to use our common sense. In all my years of partying myself and anyone I know have known has never been accused of rape as it is obvious when it is appropriate to proceed to the next level of the physical relationship. So I don't see the law as unreasonable or someone effecting our ability to have sex whether we are drunk or not?

 

 

If both people had sex and no one said anything - then there is no "blame" to be cast.

If both got drunk - both are to blame.

If you got so drunk you cannot even rememebr if you said yes or no - you are both to blame.

[TrashMan]

 

Also I don't see how you can have different definitions of rape and how the Asians cannot believe what we believe as far as what is acceptable. Rape is not actually about the sex, its mostly about power and the thought of power over women. That doesn't change irrespective of where you live.

 

 

Peopel from different cultures can have diffeent views? How is that surprising?

 

Also, rape IS about sex. TI's the entire point.

If rape was just about power, than anyone who is abusing his power over you is raping you.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Also I don't see how you can have different definitions of rape and how the Asians cannot believe what we believe as far as what is acceptable. Rape is not actually about the sex, its mostly about power and the thought of power over women. That doesn't change irrespective of where you live.

 

 

Peopel from different cultures can have diffeent views? How is that surprising?

 

Also, rape IS about sex. TI's the entire point.

If rape was just about power, than anyone who is abusing his power over you is raping you.

 

 

Rape in almost all cases is not about sex and anyone who has spent just a little time researching the reasons behind it would be aware of that. Consider this a free education Trashman. And they say you can't learn anything on the gaming forum 

 

http://www.articlesbase.com/womens-issues-articles/rape-is-about-power-control-and-anger-not-sex-1345819.html

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/29/rape-about-power-not-sex

 

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/rape-is-about-power-learn-to-wield-it-to-fight-rape/20130823.htm

Edited September 12, 2013 by BruceVC

[Zoraptor]

 

 

she had on ocassion buttered his crumpets with flagrant abandon

I wish someone would butter my crumpets with flagrant abandon once in a while.

 

 

Ah, yes. Truly tragic how she ended up, but the girl did have more daddy issues than a Bioware game so what can you really expect.

[kgambit]

 

 

 

she had on ocassion buttered his crumpets with flagrant abandon

I wish someone would butter my crumpets with flagrant abandon once in a while.

 

 

Ah, yes. Truly tragic how she ended up, but the girl did have more daddy issues than a Bioware game so what can you really expect.

 

 

From the BBC House of Cards series I presume?

[Tale]

My colleague has been reading this and asked the question:

 

IF the woman can be so drunk that the law deems she is not responsible for her actions in giving 'consent'

 

THEN does it not follow that a man in an equal state of drunkenness cannot be held responsible for his actions in complying with that 'consent'?

Theoretically yes.

 

But all I can see on a practical level is "never get that drunk." Because when you're at a place with drunk people, something bad is going to happen and someone has to be level headed enough to take people to the hospital, take them home, or call the police. And it's better to be the problem solver than the problem.

 

Maybe that's why I'm so boring. But I like being boring.

[Volourn]

"Rape is not actually about the sex, its mostly about power"

 

This isn't completely true. Rape is ofyen about sex. This idea that rape is only about power is myth.

 

 

"and the thought of power over women."

 

That explains all the males that get raped. Did you hear that people? Men get raped because it is about the thoguht of power over women.

[JFSOCC]

 

This is disturbing, but it also utterly ridiculous this op/ep piece is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-miley-cyrus-steubenville-and-culture-run-amok/2013/09/02/1cecafa6-11af-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html

Ah, tasty outrage will ensue from that. Hopefully at least I see one 'trembling with rage' though.

 

so I read that, all of it. I got to say, what Miley Cyrus does is not wise, but it's not entirely her fault. I've found that child starlets pushed by Disney(Or Fox and Warner) have a notoriously poor track-record. Not one of them is undamaged. When you see Miley "twerk", Blame Disney's lacking care and education. When you see Lindsay Lohan battle a drug addiction, blame Disney. Christina Ricci acted in movies she was technically too young to watch. Macaulay Culkin and his drug troubles, another child starlet unprepared by those who were responsible for preparing him.

Britney Spears, AND her sister, both left with no protection against those who would exploit them, one of them a teenage mother, the other one also cut her career short because of children.

 

Disney tends to put forward a misogynist and old-fashioned world view in which women are objectified. This child starlets are as unprotected and exploited as any victim is. No wonder then that they help perpetuate such foolishness.

 

I have trouble believing that it was Miley's own idea to "twerk", but she was surrounded by people who knew what she was going to do on stage, and no-one told her it was a bad idea. From a financial point of view, it wasn't a bad idea, sex sells, after all, and who cares that it exploits women in the process.

 

I echo the sentiment Richard Cohen that Miley Cyrus could benefit from learning about the Steubenville rape case, I also believe it's not entirely her fault that she objectified herself so readily for the MTV (who also did nothing to stop it, and must have been present at rehearsals) performance. The greatest evils in this world are born from ignorance, not malice.

 

People make mistakes in their lives, I believe mistakes are essential for learning, instead of ruthlessly punishing mistakes, we should change them into teachable moments. Let's not make definitive statements about someone's character, as character evolves over time, that's called growing up.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

To be a misogynist for a moment, I think that there are some people more than willing to be exploited to stay in the spotlight. For example, that girl who was a reality star(for being a teenage mother IIRC) did a porno to stay in the spotlight/drum up media attention. Call me what you will, but I think people like that are simply attention whores willing to do anything to stay relevant. In Cyrus' case, she is a young performer in an industry* where stars are lucky to have a year of relevance before they are replaced by the next sensation, so doing what she did was likely her attempt to stay in the spotlight instead of fade away. In any case, I don't see much of a connection between self debasement and the rate of rape in Asia, or in the case of my feverish misreading, Zoraptor's extreme sexual predation in Asia.

 

 

*Well, pop music. While performers in other music genres also tend to fade from relevance, it seems that they stay relevant to their genre for a longer period of time. I would hypothesize that this is due to pop music being influenced almost solely by public opinion, and is thus more mercurial than other genres that maintain a general set of qualities.

[Gromnir]

I'm not really clear how them treating rape as an extreme sport makes it less serious as a problem.

 it is not less of a problem. is just a Very different cultural perspective. we spent only a small time in Japan and even less in Singapore. our time in middle-east was even more brief.

 

...

 

who is the victim in a rape?  here in the west the answer is simple and obvious: the woman who was raped. in other cultures the answer is not so clear. first response may be the "family" of the woman raped, or her husband, or father. ask these intelligent and educated folks, "what about the woman who was raped?" and they agree immediately that, yes, there is no excuse for assault of a woman. even so, their first reaction does not have them seeing the woman as the primary victim. some "rape" is viewed analogous to, at worst, theft or vandalism... and even here in the west we has romanticized various acts/actors o' theft and vandalism in movies, books and songs. here in the west it can be kewl or manly in some situations to be a vandal or thief... but not a rapist. 

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

ps  the crime of rape typically have no specific intent requirement for the defendant, so drunkenness is no defense... save in EXTREME unlikely circumstances. the victim can consent to intercourse, so that is why her/his state o' mind is almost always at issue. 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lexx]

We could slowly fade the topic into the direction of male victims of women who lie about them beeing raped / sexually assaulted. It's a pretty big problem, as men are kind of guilty from the go. Even if they manage it to fend off a possible lawsuit / conviction - at least in germany - they have a very slim chance of taking the women to court and win. In many (if not pretty much all) cases, this will just end in "well, we can't prove that you have raped her, so you are free due to lack of evidence" - the damage still being done, the man might have lost the job, family, friends and whatnot, while the woman does not have to fear any conviction unless she confesses by herself (which doesn't happen very often, if at all...).

 

Let the woman be young, pretty and start crying in the courtroom with the judge being a male and you have pretty much lost the case.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

We could slowly fade the topic into the direction of male victims of women who lie about them beeing raped / sexually assaulted. It's a pretty big problem, as men are kind of guilty from the go. Even if they manage it to fend off a possible lawsuit / conviction - at least in germany - they have a very slim chance of taking the women to court and win. In many (if not pretty much all) cases, this will just end in "well, we can't prove that you have raped her, so you are free due to lack of evidence" - the damage still being done, the man might have lost the job, family, friends and whatnot, while the woman does not have to fear any conviction unless she confesses by herself (which doesn't happen very often, if at all...).

 

Let the woman be young, pretty and start crying in the courtroom with the judge being a male and you have pretty much lost the case.

 

Shame Lexx, how did you get over it? What did your family and friends say...I assume they believed you?

[Lexx]

Heh. Well, such a thing didn't happened to me. It's still pretty common, though. The most prominent one in recent time (in germany) being the case of Jörg Kachelmann, where two women accused him of rape (it's interesting that in such cases it is often two women, not just one - good to have a witness).

Edited September 12, 2013 by Lexx

[alanschu]

 

 

We could slowly fade the topic into the direction of male victims of women who lie about them beeing raped / sexually assaulted. It's a pretty big problem, as men are kind of guilty from the go.

 

How big of a problem is it, actually?  I'm curious about over-representation in the media as well.

 

 

There was an ad campaign in Edmonton that was posters that would say "Don't be that guy" with messaging along how if she is too drunk to consent, it's not okay.  A Men's Rights group put up posters with similar imagery, pointing out "Don't be that girl" with messaging about how just because you regret it doesn't mean you're consensual.

 

 

It's also interesting because the Steubenville case, as well as one in Nova Scotia (which ultimately ended with the girl killing herself) did not really give me the impression that men are seen as guilty from the get go.  In both situations I think there was a lot of support for the young men and in the case of the Nova Scotia girl, plenty of "**** shaming" as news of her exploits went around.  I think part of the problem for this is that people over state the notion of "cry rape because you regret it" and in these cases, so there's still incidents of "women are vindictive."

 

 

A large problem, in that even if it doesn't happen very much, definitely ARE situations where women falsely cry wolf.  Some overly inebriated women (3 of them) in Edmonton wanted to take a taxi, and when they were belligerent the taxi driver kicked them out of the cab.  In response, they started accusing him of touching them and called the police on him.  Fortunately, the cab driver had it all on video and no charges were laid, but man oh man did those women ever do something that is very serious and should never be done because it only undermines the capabilities of legitimate victims to seek help.  Was so frustrating.  I am worried, however, that these incidents while rare get great exposure, leading them to happen more often than not.

 

Especially among later teens and young adults, however, I definitely get the impression that a lot of people feel that rape accusations come from women with regrets/vindictiveness, rather than actual victims.  I don't know if this is a fair interpretation based on actual behaviour, but my gut tells me that it's probably not.