Amentep Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 "They're not AFAIK liable for damages. As I understand it by contract, they either have to give you what is promised in your tier or refund your money. (That doesn't mean one couldn't sue, but damages aren't inherent in the Kickstarter contract)." Trust me. They are obligated to live up to what they offered. You can't take x from someone while promising y in return and not be expected to be legally liable for it. Refund would be a reasonable way to deal with it legally. But, no way, can they legally take your money and run. That's left and the courts would cruficy them if it ever got ebfore a judge. Ah, you're using damages different from how I initially took it. Yes they are liable for restitution of what you paid (if you can track the entity down and it has assets). I imagine you'd be hard pressed to prove them liable for anything beyond that though (which is why I think Kickstarter added the refund caveat to their contracts). I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'm curious how it works if there's a good faith attempt to deliver a product, and it fails and the company goes bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 "Are you sure about them being liable? I thought one of the legal caveats when you pledge is that a product isn't guaranteed. I don't know the whole legal bull around it." Of course, they're liable. They offering a product and/or service in return for money. They state you pledge x amount of money (in my case it was $250) and you get y in return. It's like business transanction. If I was told I'd pledge $250 and get nothing I'd never have pledge. That is also true with the vast majority who donated. Otherwise it is fraud. It is not a charity but even a charity has uphold their promises whatever they may be. " Yes they are liable for restitution of what you paid (if you can track the entity down and it has assets)." Which is why I'd never fund a KS that be impossible to do. Of course, Obsidian is a legit business who can easily be tracked down, so they can't really hide. L0L They ain't some two bit loser crew so I doubt it would ever get that far. " I imagine you'd be hard pressed to prove them liable for anything beyond that though " It would depend why they didn't uphold the deal.If it out and out fraud, they'd definitely be punished like all frauds who get caught do. Huge punishments including potential jail time since fraud is a criminal offence. In most cases, they'd have to refund at minimum. KS 'rules' do not ever trump the law. "I'm curious how it works if there's a good faith attempt to deliver a product, and it fails and the company goes bankrupt." Well.. you can't get money from someone who has no money. This is true no matter what. If I owe you money, you sue me, and you win the court case, but I have no money.. well, grats on your victory but still no money for you. Plus, official legal bankruptcy comes with protection and a cost to the one declaring it. Thankfully, none of us here, need to likely worry about this stuff with obsidian. *fingers crossed that I didn't just jinx it now heh* DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bester Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Companies with limited responsibility can simply file bankruptcy after paying themselves the salary for 2 years and doing nothing, and voila. And this is like the most obvious excuse, I'm sure there are other more subtle ones. Or they can just keep saying "yeah yeah, we're still working on it'... for decades... Come on. Kickstarter means 0 guarantees. IE Mod for Pillars of Eternity: link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManifestedISO Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Wow, the Ignore Button is a fantastic feature, greatly improving thread continuity and tone. Also, I heard Killzone: Shadowfall will be a 50GB download. I think I'll buy the disc. All Stop. On Screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Is file compression already lost knowledge? "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Ok, so Kickstarters are only contractually obligated to fulfill pledge rewards, if the reward states "a copy of the game when it is released" but its never released, would that wording be enough to get them out of having to provide refunds? The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bester Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Wow, the Ignore Button is a fantastic feature, greatly improving thread continuity and tone. Also, I heard Killzone: Shadowfall will be a 50GB download. I think I'll buy the disc. This button doesn't exist in here. I never found it. IE Mod for Pillars of Eternity: link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 There is no ignore button per se. You'll have to go to your profile settings and check ignore preferences from there. Stuff should be here. "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Is file compression already lost knowledge? Well, ps3 users have been complaining for the whole generation about how they had to suffer FMVs packed for DVD size, instead of using the full available storage space on blu-rays. Imagine if digital downloads were more heavily compressed than disc releases, or even worse, they'd start compressing the whole release more heavily to make the digital download smaller? If you don't have the bandwidth, buy the disc. Simple. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 GTA Online launches -- right into an 'online' roadblock. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Is file compression already lost knowledge? Well, ps3 users have been complaining for the whole generation about how they had to suffer FMVs packed for DVD size, instead of using the full available storage space on blu-rays. Imagine if digital downloads were more heavily compressed than disc releases, or even worse, they'd start compressing the whole release more heavily to make the digital download smaller? If you don't have the bandwidth, buy the disc. Simple. Such rationale requires a level of technological proficiency which console users seem adamant about not learning. If you have a console its very likely that you're trying to avoid technical issues and learning. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 GTA Online launches -- right into an 'online' roadblock. So, the same thing that happens to pretty much every multiplayer online game when it launches. RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Yep. Although somewhere on some forum Im sure theres a full blown nerdrage apocalypse going down. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Is file compression already lost knowledge? Well, ps3 users have been complaining for the whole generation about how they had to suffer FMVs packed for DVD size, instead of using the full available storage space on blu-rays. Imagine if digital downloads were more heavily compressed than disc releases, or even worse, they'd start compressing the whole release more heavily to make the digital download smaller? If you don't have the bandwidth, buy the disc. Simple. Such rationale requires a level of technological proficiency which console users seem adamant about not learning. If you have a console its very likely that you're trying to avoid technical issues and learning. I find your methodology suspect, especially since I don't feel like I fit your profile myself. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Bravery Default trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEOcMXcsojI Yet another awesome looking game to play on my mighty little portable from Big N. This game harkens back to a time when Final Fantasy games were still charming and fun, and Square was still Square and had not yet been gobbled up by Squeenix and had the soul sucked out of it. I'll be playing the **** out of this next year. Edited October 1, 2013 by Keyrock RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Is file compression already lost knowledge? Well, ps3 users have been complaining for the whole generation about how they had to suffer FMVs packed for DVD size, instead of using the full available storage space on blu-rays. Imagine if digital downloads were more heavily compressed than disc releases, or even worse, they'd start compressing the whole release more heavily to make the digital download smaller? If you don't have the bandwidth, buy the disc. Simple. Such rationale requires a level of technological proficiency which console users seem adamant about not learning. If you have a console its very likely that you're trying to avoid technical issues and learning. I find your methodology suspect, especially since I don't feel like I fit your profile myself. Then you may be the exception, I've met some. Still most console owners I know aren't tech savvy and when the inevitable PC vs Consoles debate starts one of the main arguments seems be the convenience of a machine exclusively for playing games. Which seems to be a common response around the web, alongside the fact that consoles (allegedly) don't have to deal with as many technical issues as the PCs. Of course I chalk that up to general ignorance surrounding PC gaming, hell I used to believe that myself before I got into it. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labadal Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Bravery Default trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEOcMXcsojI Yet another awesome looking game to play on my mighty little portable from Big N. This game harkens back to a time when Final Fantasy games were still charming and fun, and Square was still Square and had not yet been gobbled up by Squeenix and had the soul sucked out of it. I'll be playing the **** out of this next year. I'll play it this year, with Japanese voices. The game isn't actually developed by Square themselves by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 http://www.shacknews.com/article/81377/amnesia-creator-teases-sci-fi-scares-in-soma Okay. Interested. 1 Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bester Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) God, what a waste of time. 5 minutes I waited for something to happen and nothing did. If you're reading this, just scroll to 10 seconds before the video ends to see what it's about. Edited October 1, 2013 by Bester IE Mod for Pillars of Eternity: link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 God, what a waste of time. 5 minutes I waited for something to happen and nothing did. If you're reading this, just scroll to 10 seconds before the video ends to see what it's about. You just don't get it. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 God, what a waste of time. 5 minutes I waited for something to happen and nothing did. If you're reading this, just scroll to 10 seconds before the video ends to see what it's about. You just don't get it. I don't get it either. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 http://www.shacknews.com/article/81377/amnesia-creator-teases-sci-fi-scares-in-soma Okay. Interested. SOMA = System Shock 3? RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Valve trademarks Half-Life 3 Company files trademark application for long-awaited game; no comment from studio regarding what it may mean. Valve has filed a trademark application for Half-Life 3. The trademark application (via NeoGAF) was filed September 29 with the European Union's Office of Harmonization for the Internal Market (OHIM). It covers "computer game software; electronic game software, downloadable game software via a global computer network and wireless devices; and video game software," among other things. A Valve representative was not immediately available to comment regarding what this news may mean for the future of Half-Life. A trademark application does not necessarily indicate that Half-Life 3 is in development. Last week, Valve announced SteamOS, Steam Machines, and a Steam Controller. The announcements did not win everyone over, as Gearbox Software CEO Randy Pitchford said Valve needs to introduce a killer app to display why the new initiatives are compelling. He specifically said a product like Half-Life 3 would accomplish this. In August, Half-Life series voice actor John Patrick Lowrie said Half-Life 3 is not in development, though he admitted he has "no idea" what Valve may be planning in the future. Last April, Valve boss Gabe Newell said the studio had gone through numerous "twists and turns" to bring Half-Life 3 to market. He explained that Valve's silence is in the best interest of gamers because elaborating on the game's development "would probably drive people more crazy." The most recent Half-Life game was 2007's Half-Life 2: Episode Two. That game advances the story of previous entries Half-Life 2 and Half-Life 2: Episode One. A third episode was planned, but has not seen the light of day. A listing for Half-Life 3 was recently spotted in a Valve project tracker. It would be hilarious if this was just GabeN trolling everybody. Edited October 1, 2013 by Keyrock RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 God, what a waste of time. 5 minutes I waited for something to happen and nothing did. If you're reading this, just scroll to 10 seconds before the video ends to see what it's about. You just don't get it. I don't get it either. Same here. Is there anything more about this? Right now I can't even see if this is a game or not. "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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