Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Hurlshort]

I'd actually say Martin is more ridiculous than Jordan, since at least Jordan was turning out books at a somewhat regular pace.  

 

This topic has taken an interesting turn, Mass Effect and Fantasy writers  

[NOK222]

Salvatore just did a thing on reddit. I think I was too late for him to answer my question. 

[Volourn]

"Mickey McMickey"

 

'Nough said. L0L

 

 

"My problem with the ending is that you're given 4 options, but no matter what you pick you get the same ending with negligible variations"

 

False.

[Sarex]

Sanderson does all that better than Salvatore though. And i don't consider Sanderson a great author either. Don't get me wrong, i kinda like Salvatore's novels, but in the same way someone likes fast food. Quick, simple, not taxing, entertaining... but not great in any strech of the word.

I cannot compair him with authors like Martin,Wolfe,Erikson etc.

 

Sanderson is an underrated writer, his newest series The Stormlight Archive is easily comparable to Jordan, Martin, Wolfe, Erikson in the quality of writing.

[Spider]

 

Sanderson does all that better than Salvatore though. And i don't consider Sanderson a great author either. Don't get me wrong, i kinda like Salvatore's novels, but in the same way someone likes fast food. Quick, simple, not taxing, entertaining... but not great in any strech of the word.

I cannot compair him with authors like Martin,Wolfe,Erikson etc.

 

Sanderson is an underrated writer, his newest series The Stormlight Archive is easily comparable to Jordan, Martin, Wolfe, Erikson in the quality of writing.

 

 

Agreed. I'n my mind he's top of the line among fantasy writers today. his world building is second to none (which is a good thing since he creates so many of them) and his characters are very well built (even though he reuses some personality type in most of his books).

[Sarex]

Agreed. I'n my mind he's top of the line among fantasy writers today. his world building is second to none (which is a good thing since he creates so many of them) and his characters are very well built (even though he reuses some personality type in most of his books).

 

Second to Tolkien, no one is ahead of him in world building. But he is dead and he only built one world.

[Zoraptor]

 

I think Sanderson is the one epic fantasy author working right now who actually outlines his multi-book epics beforehand releasing the first book. For that alone, I am grateful.

 

Steve Erikson

..

The riddiculous cases like Jordan and in a lesser extent Martin aren't so common.

 

Hang on there a minute, for a second I though you were implying the Erikson had a well planned series. Say it ain't so, Malekith. His series has some of the most massive continuity errors of all time! Of all time!

 

I'd be pretty certain that both Jordan and Martin planned their series as well, sticking to the plan on the other hand... Sticking to the plan is probably one thing the game story development process does better than the book process.

[Sarex]

Hang on there a minute, for a second I though you were implying the Erikson had a well planned series. Say it ain't so, Malekith. His series has some of the most massive continuity errors of all time! Of all time!

 

I'd be pretty certain that both Jordan and Martin planned their series as well, sticking to the plan on the other hand... Sticking to the plan is probably one thing the game story development process does better than the book process.

 

While I love Erikson's books to death, anyone can see what a mess the storyline became towards the end.

 

As for Jordan and Martin, they are both discovery writers so not much planning there, though Sanderson said that Jordan always had an idea of how the story was gonna go/finish.

[Malekith]

 

 

I think Sanderson is the one epic fantasy author working right now who actually outlines his multi-book epics beforehand releasing the first book. For that alone, I am grateful.

 

Steve Erikson

..

The riddiculous cases like Jordan and in a lesser extent Martin aren't so common.

 

Hang on there a minute, for a second I though you were implying the Erikson had a well planned series. Say it ain't so, Malekith. His series has some of the most massive continuity errors of all time! Of all time!

 

I'd be pretty certain that both Jordan and Martin planned their series as well, sticking to the plan on the other hand... Sticking to the plan is probably one thing the game story development process does better than the book process.

 

Yes. He knew the end from the start, he knew how to get there.  Malazan was a ten book series from the start, and he sticks to his plan admirably. Now, that the last five books should be 200-300 pages shorter, with tighter editing, and that Erikson forgets (or ignores on purpose) the details in his story are valid criticisms. But you cannot cut whole books from Malazan the way you can in Wheel of Time, which is a good six book series stretched to a bad 14 book one

[Malekith]

Sanderson is an underrated writer, his newest series The Stormlight Archive is easily comparable to Jordan, Martin, Wolfe, Erikson in the quality of writing.

Don't put Jordan in that company

 

As for Sanderson, too soon to tell, but he has the same weaknesses in all his works so far, and Way of Kings doesn't reverses the trent.

 

First of all he cannot write shades of gray to save his life.All his characters are always black and white.Brandon’s characters tend to go pretty emo as well. Either that, or they are tough as nails. There isn’t a lot of in-between. That is the reason that most of his characters seem similar between his works.

 

Second, his prose is nowhere near Wolfe or Erikson (when he is on form). The "invisible prose" he uses that is just there and doesn't get noticed by the reader is not a flaw per se, but it isn't "quality of writing" either. Salvatore does the same.

 

His strengths are the creativity in worldbuilding and magic systems and inserting "cool" cinematic moments in his books. Strenghts that i realy like and are things that drew me into Malazan as well. But (for me at least) Sanderson's worlds give me a "video game" vibe. They don't feel "real" if that makes any sense. The simplistic morality plays a role in that.

 

But Way of Kings was better than his other works i give you that.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Malekith

[Gromnir]

 

 

I think Sanderson is the one epic fantasy author working right now who actually outlines his multi-book epics beforehand releasing the first book. For that alone, I am grateful.

 

Steve Erikson

..

The riddiculous cases like Jordan and in a lesser extent Martin aren't so common.

 

Hang on there a minute, for a second I though you were implying the Erikson had a well planned series. Say it ain't so, Malekith. His series has some of the most massive continuity errors of all time! Of all time!

 

I'd be pretty certain that both Jordan and Martin planned their series as well, sticking to the plan on the other hand... Sticking to the plan is probably one thing the game story development process does better than the book process.

 

typically we disagree with zor, but am finding our self in his camp, so-to-speak, in this instance. Most writers we has met develop detailed outlines for their novels and series.  is a very useful mental exercise.  before real writing starts, the author gots a goodly notion of the who, whats, wheres, why and hows o' just about everything they is gonna put onto paper. 'course once writing starts, the author is hoping for the kinda transcendent experience o' having the characters and story write themselves. some authors will stick to their outlines, but such authors is actual a minority. build an outline, but follow the story is far more common.

 

game development, on the other-hand... well, we cant imagine Not following the outline. gots too many other resources (and dollars) involved in crafting game to let story evolve organic. heck, got too many writers to let story develop organic. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

 

Hang on there a minute, for a second I though you were implying the Erikson had a well planned series. Say it ain't so, Malekith. His series has some of the most massive continuity errors of all time! Of all time!

 

I'd be pretty certain that both Jordan and Martin planned their series as well, sticking to the plan on the other hand... Sticking to the plan is probably one thing the game story development process does better than the book process.

 

While I love Erikson's books to death, anyone can see what a mess the storyline became towards the end.

 

As for Jordan and Martin, they are both discovery writers so not much planning there, though Sanderson said that Jordan always had an idea of how the story was gonna go/finish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Sanderson is the one epic fantasy author working right now who actually outlines his multi-book epics beforehand releasing the first book. For that alone, I am grateful.

 

Steve Erikson

..

The riddiculous cases like Jordan and in a lesser extent Martin aren't so common.

 

Hang on there a minute, for a second I though you were implying the Erikson had a well planned series. Say it ain't so, Malekith. His series has some of the most massive continuity errors of all time! Of all time!

 

I'd be pretty certain that both Jordan and Martin planned their series as well, sticking to the plan on the other hand... Sticking to the plan is probably one thing the game story development process does better than the book process.

 

Yes. He knew the end from the start, he knew how to get there.  Malazan was a ten book series from the start, and he sticks to his plan admirably. Now, that the last five books should be 200-300 pages shorter, with tighter editing, and that Erikson forgets (or ignores on purpose) the details in his story are valid criticisms. But you cannot cut whole books from Malazan the way you can in Wheel of Time, which is a good six book series stretched to a bad 14 book one

 

 

Guys I'm currently reading the last book, The Crippled God, and even though I am loving the series I agree with Zor that there are certain inconsistencies. Also I find they bring concepts into the series that aren't explained probably. So how are are you suppose to know why something is happening? For example the K'Chain Nah'Ruk intercepting Tavore and decimating the Bonehunters.  It just seemed random? Anyway the series is still good

[Oerwinde]

"Mickey McMickey"

 

'Nough said. L0L

 

 

"My problem with the ending is that you're given 4 options, but no matter what you pick you get the same ending with negligible variations"

 

False.

 

Yes, I'm sorry that was false. You're given 3 options, not 4.

[Sarex]

Don't put Jordan in that company

 

Are you implying that, those writers/stories are somehow better then Robert Jordan/Wheel of Time. If so let me tell you this, by writing alone, he blows Wolfe and Ericson out of the water and for me personally Wot is superior to Asoiaf.(I got bored at book 2 and couldn't finish the series(I don't like Dirty Fantasy))

 

Edited August 23, 2013 by Sarex

[Nepenthe]

"Probably."

 

Not even close. Salvatore has written some damn good books. It's not his fault 9well.. in some ways it is) that some people have gone extreme in their Drizzt love. The Dark Elf and Icewind Dale trilogies are damn good reads.

Probably not to what salvatore was during those days, but the last two efforts by him I read sucked hard vacuum.

[Guest Slinky]

 

"Mickey McMickey"

 

'Nough said. L0L

 

 

"My problem with the ending is that you're given 4 options, but no matter what you pick you get the same ending with negligible variations"

 

False.

 

Yes, I'm sorry that was false. You're given 3 options, not 4.

 

Didn't the free dlc thingy add a fourth option? No idea what color that was though.

[Serrano]

The forth option was shooting the annoying hologram kid which leads to the destruction of all sentient life in the galaxy. You didn't miss much though, I think it's just one line from StarChild and then a scene of that time capsule Liara was working on with a voice-over speech.

[AGX-17]

Hold up there, chums, why is this suddenly a civil discourse on fantasy novelists and not an argument over the homogay homosex in the video games? Won't somebody please think of the children? The children.

[Malekith]

 

Don't put Jordan in that company

 

Are you implying that, those writers/stories are somehow better then Robert Jordan/Wheel of Time. If so let me tell you this, by writing alone, he blows Wolfe and Ericson out of the water and for me personally Wot is superior to Asoiaf.(I got bored at book 2 and couldn't finish the series(I don't like Dirty Fantasy))

 

 

Taste is subjective and all that, and it's nothing wrong with liking WoT more than Asoif if you don't like the "grimdark" fantasy.

But Jordan's writing of all things??? It is mediocre.Not bad, but still... I will never understand you in that so there is no point to discuss it.

But WoT, regardless of if you like it or hate it (and i don't hate it) you have to admit it's the most flawed of all the series we mentioned so far. The plot is a mess, with a good 1/3 of the books being complete filler, and the characters are some of the worst i have the misfortune to read about. I was firmly in the Saitan's camp because i wanted every single character to die a horrible death. Except every major character had plot armor.

In my opinion WoT works best if it is one of your first fantasy series and grew up with these books. Most of WoT fans i have talked are in this category. I read it for the first time a few years back, and i found it ...meh. Some good ideas, interesting worldbuilding, but not ten top material.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Malekith

[Sarex]

 

Taste is subjective and all that, and it's nothing wrong with liking WoT more than Asoif if you don't like the "grimdark" fantasy.

But Jordan's writing of all things??? It is mediocre.Not bad, but still... I will never understand you in that so there is no point to discuss it.

But WoT, regardless of if you like it or hate it (and i don't hate it) you have to admit it's the most flawed of all the series we mentioned so far. The plot is a mess, with a good 1/3 of the books being complete filler, and the characters are some of the worst i have the misfortune to read about. I was firmly in the Saitan's camp because i wanted every single character to die a horrible death. Except every major character had plot armor.

In my opinion WoT works best if it is one of your first fantasy series and grew up with these books. Most of WoT fans i have talked are in this category. I read it for the first time a few years back, and i found it ...meh. Some good ideas, interesting worldbuilding, but not ten top material.

 

 

Watch some interviews from fantasy writers, whenever someone mentions prose and good writing, they will count Robert Jordan among the best. So it's not like I'm talking out of my ass. Another thing to add, is that Jordan had unparalleled "fight" scenes, which was down to him having war experience. As for you talking about plot being a mess, I don't see it personally, there where no contradictions in the plot and it flowed nicely to the end. As for 1/3 of the books being filler (not true), people think that because they only want to read about Rand and thus any book that he is not in they consider it a filler. Wot has the largest amount of named characters and thus is very complex and comprehensive, so yeah it's not everyone's cup of tea, but in no way does that make it filler.

 

I think you are being very biased. What you have to consider is that Wot is an old book and the people who didn't pick it up as their first fantasy probably read a lot of books that followed in the vein of Wot, thus thinking "nothing new" when in fact it was the first to do it. The new books will always refine what the old ones did, but that in no way makes them better.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Sarex

[Spider]

 

Second to Tolkien, no one is ahead of him in world building. But he is dead and he only built one world.

 

 

Yeah, Tolkien created an amazing world, I'll give you that. I meant Sanderson is second to none among currently active fantasy writers though, historically there are others that rival him. Like Michael Moorcok (damn language filter) although in a very different way...

[Raithe]

Eh, I have to admit, while I am deeply impressed with the details and depth of the world that Tolkien created..  I find his actual writing to be only so-so. The ideas are good, the concept is interesting, but it rarely seems to be a "fun" read.

 

Jordan, for all the stick that he gets, I tend to rate at some better. The characters were generally more balanced, and you actually had a feel for them evolving over time and the world actually changing and the ripples of various actions spreading as the books went on. Yes, there were books that weren't up to the same standards of some in the series, but as an overall effect, they showed how well a world can be created and grown throughout a series and not just left in stasis around the bubble of a core group of "adventurers".

[Zoraptor]

Jordan needed a jackbooted editor more than anything, someone willing to tell him when things weren't necessary, if not actively counter-productive. I actually think he planned the series out decently enough, there were very few inconsistencies and plenty of stuff set up in early books that came to fruition in later ones, all signs of good planning. But from the beginning he used about 20% more words than necessary, and from about book 6 he also had about 20% more plotlines than necessary and that really messed with the pacing something terrible because the extra plotlines tended to compound rather than resolve- so the whole thing got hugely unwieldy.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Seriously, guys, no love for Miéville? I think he's at least on par with Sanderson in almost every respects. 

[Sarex]

Seriously, guys, no love for Miéville? I think he's at least on par with Sanderson in almost every respects. 

 

Had to google him, never read anything from him.