Loot collection radius

[Cultist]

BG1 and 2 had this horrible pixelhunting feature when it comes to loot collecting. Two foes died near each other and here we are - enjoy a game of clicking loot piles that are a millimeter away from each other.

I have no idea if devs already changed loot system but in case they wish to stick with Infinity, here's my proposition of a simplest thing to do:

Make a radius for loot. So if your character sands near three piles of loot he could see them all as a simgle big pile. In a way Falloutdelt with the problem when several enemies ended up very close to each other.

[Lephys]

Also, I think if your character can Perception-check something lying about (for lack of a better term), it should be indicated to the player. Of course, the distance at which items/interactables are "spotted" like this could vary drastically. Some things (such as items/interactables on shelves/inside containers) would obviously never be indicated to the player outside of the loot interface. But, mainly, the player should never have to "pixel-hunt" just to find that loot pile from a dead Xvart just because the tree canopy is blocking the player's view of the ground, even though the characters' view of the object is completely unobstructed. If there's a sack of gems lying on the ground 5 feet away from my party, in broad daylight, it shouldn't matter that it can't be seen from the sky.

 

And the problem I have (even with things that aren't blocked from player view) with interactables being purely "find it with your cursor" is twofold:

 

1) The player can find something that your character would never be able to see, simply because the mouse cursor can be placed upon it.

2) The characters (even with extremely excellent perception) can't spot a little wall lever until the player hunts it down from a floating-50-ft-in-the-air perspective.

[JFSOCC]

BG1 and 2 had this horrible pixelhunting feature when it comes to loot collecting. Two foes died near each other and here we are - enjoy a game of clicking loot piles that are a millimeter away from each other. I have no idea if devs already changed loot system but in case they wish to stick with Infinity, here's my proposition of a simplest thing to do: Make a radius for loot. So if your character sands near three piles of loot he could see them all as a simgle big pile. In a way Falloutdelt with the problem when several enemies ended up very close to each other.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63145-small-suggestions-easily-implemented-ideas-quickfire-thoughts/?p=1356105

[rjshae]

Looting in ToEE was atrocious for that; after finishing off a room full of 20-30 baddies it would take forever to click through each of the corpses and weed out the useful gear. It was especially bad when multiple bodies got stacked up. Plus after a while you'd be guessing which ones you'd looked at and which you hadn't.

 

Either grouping the loot or giving us a looting dialog window would be an improvement.

[Greydragon]

I didn't mind the BG2 method which basically threw masses of average equipment at you that you had to sort through for the hidden treasures that were unique/rare items. If this process could be streamlined, perhaps some kind of perception skill that makes desirable/key items more obvious among the twenty or more piles of generic items?

Also I hated how item piles could obscure item piles immediately behind them; some kind of merging of nearby piles would be useful.

Alternately a single pile of loot for each combat scenario; representing a tally taken of all items by the party, skipping the individual corpse looting system. It meshes with the 'XP for goals achieved rather than kills' mechanic.  

 

An earlier post of mine referred to this issue. It may be rehashing but I do like the ideas. 

[Walsingham]

Curve-ball query: does looting give a useful cooling-down period between fighting? Without it would players get their rush in the right way?

[teknoman2]

mass effect had a nice way to deal with it. loot was automatic as soon as the enemy died and you didnt have to go pixel hunting. of course this cant apply to this game, since we will have limited inventory space, but the next best thing is visual range looting. so you dont have to click on each corpse, just press a button and a window will open, showing all loot currently on the ground (but not what is in containers) within visual range of the character. you choose what to get and what not and then close the window without having to search each pile 

[Walsingham]

I'm a wee bit tired so I may be oversimplifying. But my feeling is that tinkering a great deal with the looting is most likely to just alienate players.

 

I feel certain that the majority of games players will want as much goddamn looting as they can get their greasy paws around. It's what someone smarter than me has already called the 'pinata effect'. You whack the target, candy comes out.

 

I guess the really interesting point here is that, being a kickstarter the devs don't have to just go for the mass market. But whatever they do must still have a reliable orientation on what people will stretch to.

 

I therefore wonder if the correct approach wouldn't be to think WHY traditional looting makes for enjoyable play, and then see how far that can be developed or blended.

[HunterOG]

Just curious - do people prefer to loot from menus, or is more enjoyable to loot straight from the ground?  There's a part of me that thinks that, unless the menu/window that pops up provides any pertinent information beyond the item name, then what's the point really?

 

BG1 and 2 had this horrible pixelhunting feature when it comes to loot collecting. Two foes died near each other and here we are - enjoy a game of clicking loot piles that are a millimeter away from each other. I have no idea if devs already changed loot system but in case they wish to stick with Infinity, here's my proposition of a simplest thing to do: Make a radius for loot. So if your character sands near three piles of loot he could see them all as a simgle big pile. In a way Fallout dealt with the problem when several enemies ended up very close to each other.

 

I like the idea of a loot radius, and would even be happy if it went so far as to extend to an entire room or decently-sized exterior area (within reason).  Maybe party makeup/stats or other triggers could determine what would be dug up in a room - then the player clicks the 'search room' button and is greeted with a screen that shows them everything they've found and can take.

 

On the other hand, to take this sort of mechanism to that kind of extreme could detach the player from the area's geography.  I'd be curious to know how much the 'grounding' of loot to the physical floor of an area helps to establish the player within the space.

 

One touch from Diablo II that I liked a lot was the 'looting' of environmental elements: how you could click on a mummy and it would sort of crumble at your touch, and the items would pop out and drop onto the floor.  This sort of device, when applied to slain enemies, might serve to act as a graphic signifier as them having been 'looted' while also giving players something to click on that wasn't too small.  When such a device is applied to corpses, it also reminds you as the player that 'hey - this guy is dead' instead of the body looking like a cardboard cutout.  Maybe some enemies would simply drop their loot (small monsters) while other would have to be activated (humanoids).

 

 

Curve-ball query: does looting give a useful cooling-down period between fighting? Without it would players get their rush in the right way?

 

Good question.  When one considers the level of specificity in games like BG2 - how that one pixel could matter when shooting off your fireball or trying not to be spotted - then having to differentiate between two tiny piles of stuff is almost an extension of that game mechanic.    Maybe it is the rush (no, I refuse to believe it!).

 

 

I'm a wee bit tired so I may be oversimplifying. But my feeling is that tinkering a great deal with the looting is most likely to just alienate players.

 

I feel certain that the majority of games players will want as much goddamn looting as they can get their greasy paws around. It's what someone smarter than me has already called the 'pinata effect'. You whack the target, candy comes out.

 

I think Blizzard might've had it here - or at least the most pleasing implementation of looting up to this point.  Loot pops out of enemies and onto the floor, carpeting it in a satisfying glitter and behaving very much like a pinata.  A button press brings up the names of loot and provides the player something to click on that isn't too small, while also identifying the item's value via color.  I haven't played D3 so I don't know if they changed it at all but it felt 'right' at the time.

 

The one thing that I sort of missed in this system was the iconography, the little symbols of the items - which I think really builds a connection between the player and the item.  However, armor would flip up and land on the ground with a satisfying 'clunk' - a sort of sight/sound design choice that was easily understood and engendered Pavlovian response.

 

The downside is it might make the process overly procedural, and the ultimate effect is pretty cartoonish.  It fits in the arcade stylings of Diablo but may feel out of place in IE games.

[Gfted1]

Since we have unlimited inventory, I vote for an auto loot system that just sucks up everything thing around you as you walk past it.

[Elerond]

Since we have unlimited inventory, I vote for an auto loot system that just sucks up everything thing around you as you walk past it.

 

I think that would cause some problems as that would mean that everything would be thrown in the stash, which you can only access in safe places.

[rjshae]

If you're going to pool the loot, then some type of gathering animation would be nice. For example, upon clicking the loot button, streaky blurs move from the source creatures to a single pile.

 

A drawback to pooling the loot in this manner is that notable finds may get lost in the mix. Stuff that is interesting should move to the top of the pile.

[motorizer]

I'd rather the inventory screen just showed stuff that was nearby or on nearby bodies and you can pick them up from there, as in jagged alliance 2.

It did annoy me a bit on baldurs gate that all the dead bodies had a pile of loot on top, I hope they don't go that route, I 'd rather search the bodies than that, but  something in the style of JA2's sector inventory would be best for convenience

[jamoecw]

Also, I think if your character can Perception-check something lying about (for lack of a better term), it should be indicated to the player. Of course, the distance at which items/interactables are "spotted" like this could vary drastically. Some things (such as items/interactables on shelves/inside containers) would obviously never be indicated to the player outside of the loot interface. But, mainly, the player should never have to "pixel-hunt" just to find that loot pile from a dead Xvart just because the tree canopy is blocking the player's view of the ground, even though the characters' view of the object is completely unobstructed. If there's a sack of gems lying on the ground 5 feet away from my party, in broad daylight, it shouldn't matter that it can't be seen from the sky.

 

And the problem I have (even with things that aren't blocked from player view) with interactables being purely "find it with your cursor" is twofold:

 

1) The player can find something that your character would never be able to see, simply because the mouse cursor can be placed upon it.

2) The characters (even with extremely excellent perception) can't spot a little wall lever until the player hunts it down from a floating-50-ft-in-the-air perspective.

well normal intractable stuff was highlightable wit the tab key, which is a huge boon to bg2 over bg1.  path of exile lets you 'auto highlight' things, or you can set it to hitting a key, either toggle or held down (highlights while pressed).  building this in so that non highlightable objects are needed for things like levers and such would be the road i would take.

[Lephys]

well normal intractable stuff was highlightable wit the tab key, which is a huge boon to bg2 over bg1.  path of exile lets you 'auto highlight' things, or you can set it to hitting a key, either toggle or held down (highlights while pressed).  building this in so that non highlightable objects are needed for things like levers and such would be the road i would take.

True, but it's typically highlightable even on the other side of a wall and such. Thus allowing the player to go "Ha-HAH! The characters can circumvent their own perception restrictions via MY birds-eye view! MUAHAHA!". Of course, once they've seen it, that's fine, I suppose, to show you "where they remember it being." Especially with switches and the like -- things that you need. I was just thinking, in terms of the "let's walk around and then search around with the mouse-cursor to find spiffy lootable things" system. "Let's just highlight everything in this room that I haven't even walked around fully yet" just seems kind of self-defeating. I mean, why aren't all the lootables just blatantly placed if you can just find them no matter what? Why are some of them kind of hidden?

 

So, I was just thinking that actually not being able to find non-blatant things until you specifically search for them would be interesting. And, simply waltzing your person around so that their search radius covers everything feels mildly silly, as well. It's not dumb or anything. It just... I dunno... feels really gamey? I just thought it might be interesting to have some sort of "your character is looking, with a vision/search cone, in the direction that your mouse cursor is pointing" system (or something similar) might be kinda neat. Often when playing these games and not using the "highlight all things" button (or when that isn't available), I find myself thinking "if I were really that character, in that room, wouldn't I be able to simply scan that corner, with my eyes, rather than have to walk 10 feet closer to detect something hidden?". You know, just stuff you wouldn't notice unless you were actually looking for it. Not something you had to necessarily actively search for, by digging through stuff/very closely examining an object/wall, etc. I just know there were some games that actually had the "search" check, and I think it worked in a radius around you. But that felt a bit silly and slow, compared to simply walking around and searching, in some kind of search/focus mode. You're not looking for hidden things on the open floor that surrounds your character on 3 sides. You suspect there might be something hidden in that pile of what looks like junk, though.

 

And, I think it would be cool if, once a character with sufficient perceptive abilities detects something lootable, it would be indicated/highlighted in some fashion, regardless of whether or not you were pointing at it (or maybe just if you were pushing the "show me where things I know of are" button.)

[Cultist]

I'll be happy with any loot system as long as I don't have to do idiotic things, like positioning my character to be exactly at (X,Y) spot because on (X+1,Y+1) you can't access loot on the ground.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Cultist

[JFSOCC]

 

well normal intractable stuff was highlightable wit the tab key, which is a huge boon to bg2 over bg1.  path of exile lets you 'auto highlight' things, or you can set it to hitting a key, either toggle or held down (highlights while pressed).  building this in so that non highlightable objects are needed for things like levers and such would be the road i would take.

True, but it's typically highlightable even on the other side of a wall and such. Thus allowing the player to go "Ha-HAH! The characters can circumvent their own perception restrictions via MY birds-eye view! MUAHAHA!". Of course, once they've seen it, that's fine, I suppose, to show you "where they remember it being." Especially with switches and the like -- things that you need. I was just thinking, in terms of the "let's walk around and then search around with the mouse-cursor to find spiffy lootable things" system. "Let's just highlight everything in this room that I haven't even walked around fully yet" just seems kind of self-defeating.

 

I think it's probably fairly easy to only mark loot or levers or buttons which have been "detected" Just add a boolean to denote it.

I too think a key to mark detected loot seems a fine solution.