Game devs starting to call out some of the *crazy* vitriol

[Gfted1]

We mods do not perform QA or better gun balance.

[alanschu]

Trolling is a human rights issue, that's pretty funny. As for constructive purposes, meh, a bunch of people armchair developing on a forum is a waste of time regardless so that's not a problem. Would hope developers don't actually lose work time due to some random person posting stuff on a forum.

 

 

Why do you choose to waste your time, then?

 

 

Developers do, however, waste their time filtering through the filth to get to the meaningful feedback.

[alanschu]

You honestly think doing something will stop it?  You think an impassioned cry for truth, fact or good behaviour will be rewarded with a change of heart?

 

I dislike fatalism.  Do nothing because we're helpless to stop it.  Especially when we see evidence that it can already work.  Some person comes onto this forum trash mouthing Obsidian and people speak up about how he's absurd.  Moderators edit and remove obstinately trolling posts.  I mean, why should they bother... it's not like it's going to make a difference.

 

I've seen this very board basically start mocking a poster that wanted to start thumping on BioWare for silly reasons, and that poster shut his trap.  But really, why should those people have bothered speaking up?  I mean, it's not like it would have made a difference.  Except that it did.  This forum is a better place for it too.

 

 

But why do you care? Would it really matter if I called you a 'lying scumbag'? Do you think anyone here would believe me? Or do you think that the common sense of the other posters here would win out?

 

Commonsense is overstated, and constantly debunked by empiricism time and time again.  Arguments are about exerting influence, and always have been.  After all, if it was truly pointless, you wouldn't be spending your time in here trying to convince me otherwise.  Why do you care? Presumably you're getting something out of it, even if it's just some level of entertainment.

 

 

Given I've seen this happen only to see the topic re-open several days later, I'm not seeing a big loss. Sorry. If the topic is wanted enough, interesting enough it will return. Debating the troll achieves nothing but your own continued frustration and wasted time. It also derails the thread even more.

 

I'm not suggesting debating the troll.  Though at this point, it's become clear that you don't actually understand my position.  I'm not suggesting giving the trolls what they want and actively engaging in a discussion with them.  I'm suggesting manning up and indicating to them that their actions are no longer going to be tolerated.  One way of doing this is continuing the discussion without responding to them.  Other ways are to deliberate state "Your behaviour is not acceptable."  I full on made a troll spaz out and leave a thread because I told him "You're being unreasonable, and I have no interest in discussing things further with you."  I'm not actively debating him.  I full on stated he wasn't worth the time.  He left the thread, though occasionally comes back when the topic comes back in, but he's already cemented his reputation in his response to myself and other people.  In later threads, people continued to call him on his BS tactics, rather than sittling idly by and doing nothing, or by actively engaging him in the discussion that he wanted.  Doing nothing would have been suboptimal.

 

 

Look at my link in my OP.  Is this an example of actively engaging in what the troll wants?  What the troll said, and who the troll is is not even acknowledged.  It's simply a call out that "This type of behaviour simply isn't acceptable anymore."  Tripwire just released a forum wide public message to their forum users stating straight up that being belligerent and attacking other posters is unacceptable, and that they will be far less lenient towards it in the future.  When I find myself having to moderate BSN (note: I'm not a moderator for the forums, but I do have to step in from time to time) I do start temp banning people and detail what it was that motivated the ban.  Further infractions of a similar variety starts to incur a penalty for aggravating circumstances, because frankly if those people aren't willing to change their behaviour I'm not interested in wasting any more of my time (or other people's time) by having them continue to post.

 

My most common action on this forum, in response to insults or overt trolling, is to click the report button.  I'm sure that's just the type of attention that the trolls are seeking though, so in reality I should just do nothing. Because it's fatalistic and never going to go away, right?

Edited July 26, 2013 by alanschu

[pmp10]

 

 

When a troll posts something, it's for a reaction. If you give them that, then your are encouraging them to continue. If you ignore them they will seek greener posters. Of course some people need to feel as though they 'won' the discussion and can't leave it alone, more power to them. But essentially it's a waste of time.

 

The important thing is, do you think it will stop if people do nothing?  Do you think it's plausible for everyone to not react?  If not, is it still a productive thing to allow it in some capacity?

 

You honestly think doing something will stop it? 

Of course.

People threatened by bans suspensions and ostracization are perfectly manageable and can be made to obey social standards that you set.

But it does takes continuous action and consequency which is more than most devs are willing to do.

[Malcador]

Why do you choose to waste your time, then?

 

 

Developers do, however, waste their time filtering through the filth to get to the meaningful feedback.

It's entertaining for me, I don't really see a forum as much more than that. Fair enough for feedback, but how long do they have to spend looking at 'filth' to determine that it's not necessary and move on to the next comment. Becomes even easier if you have volunteer moderators to handle that stuff and remove it. Of course they still get useless feedback that isn't abusive, but can't hope for none of that.

 

Moderation is what achieves something, as it's an action. Jawing about it is just useless.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Malcador

[alanschu]

It's entertaining for me

This is the answer that I figured you'd give. As such, I'd argue that, if you're getting something out of it (entertainment), it is not a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

but how long do they have to spend looking at 'filth' to determine that it's not necessary and move on to the next comment.

 

Any non-zero amount of time adds up.  Especially if I feel a need to discern "is he just venting a legitimate point in an emotional manner?"

 

If it's an entire page (say 15-25 posts) of junk, several minutes probably.  Plus the additional risk that I may just not even bother continue reading the thread, completely skipping potentially good feedback.

 

 

At this point I have abstained from the forum entirely.  So while I'm not wasting any of my time with it at the moment, it means that those that actually enjoy interacting with devs have been denied.  I liked talking with devs back in the KOTOR days.

Edited July 26, 2013 by alanschu

[Malcador]

Well, entertainment is a waste of time if you're talking about constructive activity, maybe. But a good guess on your part.

 

It does depends what that junk is though - can be abusive posts, off topic talk, bantering rather than any post on "Patch 2.3 introduced these bad things...", etc. I guess this is looking for feedback in an official sense, which I'd imagine one wouldn't quit from and just slog onward, rather than quit if you're just looking at it on your own time - in that case leaving threads like that stuff in the PE forum is perfectly fine.

 

But then again, I suppose this is a waste of time

Edited July 26, 2013 by Malcador

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Honestly, if someone is being a real ****, you should just ignore them. 99% of the time, they're doing it to get attention and feeding them will only make it worse. That isn't to say you should brand all criticism as vitriol or anything, just that you should ignore the (empty) death threats and other internet toughguy bull****.

 

 

People really need to stop being concerned by what some random person on the internet thinks of them. Think KaineParkers avatar.

[NOK222]

"Hey David Gaider, I think the writing in this paragraph was a bit off and with too much prose."

 

"Well I don't expect a witty internet warrior like you to understand this level of art."

 

"You're an ****, David Gaider"

 

"YOU SEE WHAT I PUT UP WITH, I HAVE TO STOP POSTING ON THE FORUMS."

 

*proceeds to continue posting anyways* 

 

(It's not a thread about internet misconduct without actual internet misconduct) 

Edited July 27, 2013 by NKKKK

[Meshugger]

Has the dev told those loonies to go **** themselves yet?

[Walsingham]

Companies have a serious reluctance to just tell people to **** off. Which is weird, because some people really need to be told that.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Companies have a serious reluctance to just tell people to **** off. Which is weird, because some people really need to be told that.

Oh **** off Wals

[Orogun01]

"Hey David Gaider, I think the writing in this paragraph was a bit off and with too much prose."

 

"Well I don't expect a witty internet warrior like you to understand this level of art."

 

"You're an ****, David Gaider"

 

"YOU SEE WHAT I PUT UP WITH, I HAVE TO STOP POSTING ON THE FORUMS."

 

*proceeds to continue posting anyways* 

 

(It's not a thread about internet misconduct without actual internet misconduct) 

In this particular case I'm going to side with the customer, he had a legitimate criticism and Gaider's response was basically telling him that  he is better than him.

Unless i'm missing something important from the context.

[licketysplit]

Gaming media and certain devs aggravate the issue when they get snarky and condescending themselves. Many go out of their way to perpetuate stereotypes. I get tired of being labeled a pirate by Ubisoft because I game on PC. I'm annoyed by EA's condescending PR speech whenever gamers speak out. Then there's MS who lately has had a run of embarrassingly bad PR spins. 

[Guest Slinky]

Indie game developer cancels sequel for their apparently well received game because of vocal internet idiot: http://kotaku.com/twitter-blowup-leads-to-sudden-cancellation-of-fez-ii-934548588

 

Ehhh.. couldn't the guy just put the wanker on ignore or something? Why oh why take anything so personally on internet of all places.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Slinky

[babaganoosh13]

The thing about Fez 2 is, they could just throw it up on PSN, GOG and Steam, do no real pub or advertising for it, and it would probably still sell like hotcakes assuming it is anywhere near as good as the first one.

 

EDIT: Also, I can't stop laughing when I see that gif.

 

Edited July 28, 2013 by babaganoosh13

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

"Hey David Gaider, I think the writing in this paragraph was a bit off and with too much prose."

 

"Well I don't expect a witty internet warrior like you to understand this level of art."

 

"You're an ****, David Gaider"

 

"YOU SEE WHAT I PUT UP WITH, I HAVE TO STOP POSTING ON THE FORUMS."

 

*proceeds to continue posting anyways* 

 

(It's not a thread about internet misconduct without actual internet misconduct)

 

In this particular case I'm going to side with the customer, he had a legitimate criticism and Gaider's response was basically telling him that  he is better than him.

Unless i'm missing something important from the context.

I agree, but Gaider is a oversensitive **** so it is pretty much a given that he would act like a prick.

[NOK222]

Indie game developer cancels sequel for their apparently well received game because of vocal internet idiot: http://kotaku.com/twitter-blowup-leads-to-sudden-cancellation-of-fez-ii-934548588

 

Ehhh.. couldn't the guy just put the wanker on ignore or something? Why oh why take anything so personally on internet of all places.

Wow, does he need me to hold his hand?

[Malcador]

Indie game developer cancels sequel for their apparently well received game because of vocal internet idiot: http://kotaku.com/twitter-blowup-leads-to-sudden-cancellation-of-fez-ii-934548588

 

Ehhh.. couldn't the guy just put the wanker on ignore or something? Why oh why take anything so personally on internet of all places.

Isn't Phil Fish a douchebag himself ?

[Fighter]

He is an eccentric crazy artist. If he'd be a character in a movie people would like him

[Nordicus]

Isn't Phil Fish a douchebag himself?

Quite right.

 

It's kinda amazing how he's managed to make Johnathan Blow look like the silent busy worker type in this situation

[Orogun01]

He is an eccentric crazy artist. If he'd be a character in a movie people would like him

The thing about characters is that you only like them in small dosages in RL, at some point you become fed up with their bull**** and just want them to go away.

Also, Howard Hughes was an eccentric crazy artist, Phil Fish is just a drama queen.

[NOK222]

If Howard was anything like Robert House is portrayed, I'd probably punch him in the face.

Edited July 28, 2013 by NKKKK

[Maria Caliban]

It's probably the best way to do so, so maybe calling out "these guys are being stupid" helps paint a light? Does it just make the devs seem like whiners? Should he just "suck it up?" (If so, why? Note, I *will* follow up with further questions if someone does feel this way) I think forums tend to self-police relatively well. They tend to have a hegemony that will push out overly contrary posts, doubly so if they are hostile.

Gamers that issue death threats should have their forum account permanently suspended and should have their game account banned for about a month.

 

Gamers that personally insult developers (suggesting you should have been aborted) should get a month long ban from the forums.

 

As this happened on twitter, I would suggest they pass it onto twitter and hope they do something about it.

[Nonek]

Sorry to interrupt but what exactly is a game account? Something like ones Steam library?

Edited July 28, 2013 by Nonek