Game devs starting to call out some of the *crazy* vitriol

[alanschu]

Not game dev, but I did get a laugh out of this story:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1563667-boxer-curtis-woodhouse-tracks-down-twitter-troll-shows-up-at-his-house

[Blarghagh]

 

 

People really need to stop being concerned by what some random person on the internet thinks of them. Think KaineParkers avatar.

 

 

 

Its easy to say that when you aren't the target of bigotry or abuse.

"Just ignore it " isn't a viable solution to dealing with most cases of bigotry

 

Actually on the internet it is, you just log off.

 

 

How is that ignoring? That is actively running away from.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

People really need to stop being concerned by what some random person on the internet thinks of them. Think KaineParkers avatar.

 

 

 

Its easy to say that when you aren't the target of bigotry or abuse.

"Just ignore it " isn't a viable solution to dealing with most cases of bigotry

 

Actually on the internet it is, you just log off.

 

 

How is that ignoring? That is actively running away from.

 

 

QFT

[Walsingham]

Logging off and leaving the forum means that bigotry has won. That's what it is FOR. To make you leave.

 

Most of my feelings on this have already been said. But I would add that at least in the UK being a troll is actually illegal and carries fines and jail sentences. Being needlessly offensive isn't a right I recognise, any more than the 'right' to flash old ladies with your winkie.

 

I'd repeat Raithe's reference to the (to me) surprisingly cool Will Wheaton. He stated that some people see themselves not winning, and feel bad in themselves, and just lash out. You don't have to feel sorry for them. But you certainly shouldn't let them make you feel sorry for yourself.

[Malcador]

What's the law's definition of a troll ?

Edited July 25, 2013 by Malcador

[Monte Carlo]

in the UK the most common offence is one under the Telecommunications Act although I know of prosecutions under Prevention of Harassment legislation. Making threats to kill is a specific offence in the UK and there is Public Order legislation for racially motivated offences. Facebook and Twitter, unsurprisingly, are the prime generators of offences.

[LadyCrimson]

How is that ignoring? That is actively running away from.

I thought one of the definitions of ignoring something was, in essence, that you're running away from a problem.

Assuming, of course, one thinks something is a problem. Not everyone thinks some troll comments towards themselves on the 'net is a problem. One can just not want to have to listen to it for a while, like one doesn't want to listen to a nagging spouse all day long.

 

Like most people, I occasionally get irritated by or tired of the shenanigans on the internet. But I also know I can go away, immerse myself in life that's not the over-reactive/no-brain-filters internet, and come back refreshed. That's not, imo, running away. That's knowing when to take a break to get perspective so you yourself hopefully won't let temper get the better of you, act the fool, and end up just adding to the problem.

 

Now, that's me talking about general internet trolling. If someone is "cyberstalking" you specifically and/or seems a serious threat to your/someone's actual person, that's a different thing and one should at least report it to the website/IP owner or the authorities.

[alanschu]

That works on a personal level.  Sometimes it's fine.  It does suck when it prevents you from doing something that you want to do, however (whether it be interneting or anything else).  It's actually part of the vicious circle of people that suffer from anxiety attacks (they avoid doing things that make them anxious, which frustrates them and causes anxiety in and of itself).

 

 

As to whether or not it solves the problem, I would consider it somewhat ineffective.  I am currently taking a break from the BSN because I got frustrated about some stuff that went on there.  Is that advantageous for those that (hypothetically) enjoyed interacting with me there?

 

If LadyCrimson gets annoyed at ObsBoards, don't we all lose!?

[Blarghagh]

 

How is that ignoring? That is actively running away from.

I thought one of the definitions of ignoring something was, in essence, that you're running away from a problem.

 

Someone calls you a name, and you don't respond to them. That's ignoring.

 

Someone calls you a name, and you leave because of it. That's running away.

[Orogun01]

 

 

How is that ignoring? That is actively running away from.

I thought one of the definitions of ignoring something was, in essence, that you're running away from a problem.

 

Someone calls you a name, and you don't respond to them. That's ignoring.

 

Someone calls you a name, and you leave because of it. That's running away.

 

What do you call when someone calls you a name and you leave so they don't call you more names?

[LadyCrimson]

Generally speaking I suppose I'm just the type who doesn't think much is going to be solved via responses on the internet. There's several factors going on (lack of brain-filter/real faces to stare into, cultural/social differences of what's "insulting" or "too far", blahblahblah). Now I don't mean one shouldn't speak one's own mind/put in their two cents if one wishes. I just mean ... it's going to take something more like what Hurlshot's classes are doing, perhaps. Building more awareness/tolerance outside of the internet so less people think it's "ok" to behave that way just because ... it's the internet.

 

The "I can get away with it, so I'm gonna do it" mentality...that's what you're fighting, really.

 

Edit: Also, the "words can never hurt me" thing we're often trained to believe. Which is a type of lie, because words definitely can hurt. It's just different people have different tolerances, like with anything else.

[Bos_hybrid]

 

 

 

People really need to stop being concerned by what some random person on the internet thinks of them. Think KaineParkers avatar.

 

 

 

Its easy to say that when you aren't the target of bigotry or abuse.

"Just ignore it " isn't a viable solution to dealing with most cases of bigotry

 

Actually on the internet it is, you just log off.

 

 

How is that ignoring? That is actively running away from.

 

 

 

Logging off is not running away.

 

When a troll posts something, it's for a reaction. If you give them that, then your are encouraging them to continue. If you ignore them they will seek greener posters. Of course some people need to feel as though they 'won' the discussion and can't leave it alone, more power to them. But essentially it's a waste of time.

 

Logging off and leaving the forum means that bigotry has won.

 

Or it's finding something better to do with your time. It's a forum/twitter/facebook troll, and has no meaning to the outside world.

 

That's what it is FOR. To make you leave.

 

Actually it's more often then not there to get a rise out of people. A troll is not being genuine, they are being deliberately controversial/annoying etc. You can not reason with it, you can not educate it. Watching your squirm, getting annoyed, arise in your white horse are things it enjoys seeing.

 

You can not win the discussion, you can only lower yourself to it's level.

[alanschu]

 

 

When a troll posts something, it's for a reaction. If you give them that, then your are encouraging them to continue. If you ignore them they will seek greener posters. Of course some people need to feel as though they 'won' the discussion and can't leave it alone, more power to them. But essentially it's a waste of time.

 

The important thing is, do you think it will stop if people do nothing?  Do you think it's plausible for everyone to not react?  If not, is it still a productive thing to allow it in some capacity?

 

 

 

 

Or it's finding something better to do with your time. It's a forum/twitter/facebook troll, and has no meaning to the outside world.

 

I am able to do this.  But it also means that I'm no longer taking part in the discussion with other people that I was enjoying.  I certainly have some people on ignore on this forum, but it can still be hard seeing quotes in other posts of the person misconstruing what I am saying and so forth.  My lack of response to that individual often doesn't stop them.  Especially if it's the type of argumentative chap that does so because he's not trying to convince me to change my position, but because he's trying to convince others about the merits of his position.  If I see that someone is calling me a liar and attempting to discredit me, it takes a strong will to do nothing about it.  I don't always have that.  Should I be the one to do so?  Is it better for that to happen?

 

 

 

 

Actually it's more often then not there to get a rise out of people. A troll is not being genuine, they are being deliberately controversial/annoying etc.

 

There are very much trolls who intend to derail topics of discussion simply to close them.  I have seen them on BSN, and I have seen it happen on threads on this forum as well (some of them I even started).  By derailing a thread, they effectively stop discussion because everyone decides to move on.  This is not a good thing, and it's precisely what they want.

[Blarghagh]

 

 

 

 

People really need to stop being concerned by what some random person on the internet thinks of them. Think KaineParkers avatar.

 

 

 

Its easy to say that when you aren't the target of bigotry or abuse.

"Just ignore it " isn't a viable solution to dealing with most cases of bigotry

 

Actually on the internet it is, you just log off.

 

 

How is that ignoring? That is actively running away from.

 

 

 

Logging off is not running away.

 

When a troll posts something, it's for a reaction. If you give them that, then your are encouraging them to continue. If you ignore them they will seek greener posters. Of course some people need to feel as though they 'won' the discussion and can't leave it alone, more power to them. But essentially it's a waste of time.

 

 

Ignoring is continued presence without acknowledgement. You continue your discussion, your video game, your web presence in spite of these trolls and do not acknowledge them. That would be ignoring. Logging off is leaving because of a troll. Leaving because of a troll is a reaction, which you have just given them and will encourage them to continue as you have just said reactions will because you have just given them the power to chase people away. Someone leaving has never stopped a troll.

 

Even if ignoring is the best thing to do, which I highly doubt, this is not it. This is, without a shred of doubt, fleeing.

 

EDIT: Hah, quote tunnel!

Edited July 26, 2013 by TrueNeutral

[Fighter]

Is this one of those things where they saw a handful of loud idiots and generalized that onto "gamers"?

[Blarghagh]

Yes, because the vocal minority acts as ambassador. If the regular gamer would speak up, that would not happen.

[Mamoulian War]

But, but, I am speaking up, but no one listens to me

 

/sadpanda

[Blarghagh]

Sounds like you're the vocal minority.

[Malcador]

Can't see a situation when you'd need to leave to silence a person, most things have ignore support and there's always the will to just ignore chat.

[Fighter]

Yes, because the vocal minority acts as ambassador. If the regular gamer would speak up, that would not happen.

 

If you have the intelligence to know what vocal minority means you should not generalize. It's done for the sake of a provocative headline and not objectivity. Regular gamers speak up all the time in the thousands of gaming message boards. But no one will make an article about that, would rather post a few tweets form angry 12 year olds and claim gaming culture is "racist/fascist/sexist".

Edited July 26, 2013 by Fighter

[Blarghagh]

You say vocal minority, I place emphasis on vocal minority. The very term means that the others are not vocal in comparison - maybe you should question your own understanding of the term instead of mine. The minority is the loudest, and that's why the articles are about them, and that's why they act as ambassador for gamers. Regular gamers speak up all the time? I call bull**** on that claim. Just in this thread alone, how many people just told everyone to ignore it?

Edited July 26, 2013 by TrueNeutral

[Lady Evenstar]

First world problems.

I disagree. Objectifying those with whom we disagree--and subsequently feeling entitled to mistreat them--are human, not first world, issues. 

 

Even when it's just words, "grow a thicker skin" translates into a community where we're putting energy into deflecting ugliness that could be put to more constructive purposes--like QA or better gun balance.  As for threats of real world violence, obvious jokes aside, there need to be consequences, because if there aren't folks think they're OK. You know, because it's the Internet.

[Bos_hybrid]

 

When a troll posts something, it's for a reaction. If you give them that, then your are encouraging them to continue. If you ignore them they will seek greener posters. Of course some people need to feel as though they 'won' the discussion and can't leave it alone, more power to them. But essentially it's a waste of time.

 

The important thing is, do you think it will stop if people do nothing?  Do you think it's plausible for everyone to not react?  If not, is it still a productive thing to allow it in some capacity?

 

You honestly think doing something will stop it?  You think an impassioned cry for truth, fact or good behaviour will be rewarded with a change of heart?

 

I am able to do this.  But it also means that I'm no longer taking part in the discussion with other people that I was enjoying.  I certainly have some people on ignore on this forum, but it can still be hard seeing quotes in other posts of the person misconstruing what I am saying and so forth.  My lack of response to that individual often doesn't stop them.  Especially if it's the type of argumentative chap that does so because he's not trying to convince me to change my position, but because he's trying to convince others about the merits of his position.  If I see that someone is calling me a liar and attempting to discredit me, it takes a strong will to do nothing about it.  I don't always have that.  Should I be the one to do so?  Is it better for that to happen?

 

But why do you care? Would it really matter if I called you a 'lying scumbag'? Do you think anyone here would believe me? Or do you think that the common sense of the other posters here would win out?

 

And what do you think you could say to stop me trolling you?

 

There are very much trolls who intend to derail topics of discussion simply to close them.  I have seen them on BSN, and I have seen it happen on threads on this forum as well (some of them I even started).  By derailing a thread, they effectively stop discussion because everyone decides to move on.  This is not a good thing, and it's precisely what they want.

 

Given I've seen this happen only to see the topic re-open several days later, I'm not seeing a big loss. Sorry. If the topic is wanted enough, interesting enough it will return. Debating the troll achieves nothing but your own continued frustration and wasted time. It also derails the thread even more.

 

Ignoring is continued presence without acknowledgement. You continue your discussion, your video game, your web presence in spite of these trolls and do not acknowledge them. That would be ignoring.

 

Which is also a valid method of dealing with them.

 

Logging off is leaving because of a troll. Leaving because of a troll is a reaction, which you have just given them and will encourage them to continue as you have just said reactions will because you have just given them the power to chase people away.

 

It's called not caring. It's realizing this is the internet and someone isn't worthy of your time. This isn't an e-peen contest. Nor is it a crusade for something, it's a damn forum/twitter feed.

 

Someone leaving has never stopped a troll.

 

Neither does debating them, they leave because they get bored or banned. Not because of some crushing argument delivered.

[Fighter]

You say vocal minority, I place emphasis on vocal minority. The very term means that the others are not vocal in comparison - maybe you should question your own understanding of the term instead of mine. The minority is the loudest, and that's why the articles are about them, and that's why they act as ambassador for gamers. Regular gamers speak up all the time? I call bull**** on that claim. Just in this thread alone, how many people just told everyone to ignore it?

 

Ambassadors to the ignorant by choice journalists nothing more. They are a minority, as in most gamers are not like that. Period. If someone forms their opinion by listening to the loudest person in the room then they are stupid. This will never ever change in any environment or in any mass culture where speech is completely free.

 

People say 'ignore it' because everything that needs to be said has been said many times ad nauseum. And everyone knows it. The opinion on shrill internet trolls is known without unnecessary words. You want to go 'deal' with them fine. But don't paint everyone with the same brush.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Fighter

[Malcador]

 

First world problems.

I disagree. Objectifying those with whom we disagree--and subsequently feeling entitled to mistreat them--are human, not first world, issues. 

 

Even when it's just words, "grow a thicker skin" translates into a community where we're putting energy into deflecting ugliness that could be put to more constructive purposes--like QA or better gun balance.  As for threats of real world violence, obvious jokes aside, there need to be consequences, because if there aren't folks think they're OK. You know, because it's the Internet.

 

Trolling is a human rights issue, that's pretty funny. As for constructive purposes, meh, a bunch of people armchair developing on a forum is a waste of time regardless so that's not a problem. Would hope developers don't actually lose work time due to some random person posting stuff on a forum.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Malcador