Non-romance dynamics in games

[BruceVC]

No, by  process of osmosis, you are absorbing some of my wisdom, padawan.

 

 

Could be

[Nepenthe]

 

 

Wals, I kind of hate you for making me watch that video blog.   

 

But yeah, I think it's an obvious sign that many game developers are now in their 30's and 40's and struggling with parenthood, where in the previous two decades they were mostly in their 20's.

 

Also I hope I don't die when my daughter is 15 because that might cause her to go get terrible tattoos that distract from her natural beauty.

While I don't mind a woman with tattoos, those do not look very good.

 

 

She is really pretty and clearly someone intelligent which is generally a must for me when I meet ladies when I am sober but those tattoos also don't do it for me at all.

 

And as Hurlshot said it does detract from her natural beauty

 

 

I've always liked ladies with a bit of ink, I suspect it's because I like to read in bed.

 

(Or it's because I'm a straight-laced **** with a thing for bad girls)

[LadyCrimson]

Themes of loyalty, love, loss, bonding, wanting to protect/cherish what you care for etc. are universal and not exclusive to blood familial relationships.

 

... I actually tend to find stuff like two enemies coming to grudgingly respect each other (or friends becoming enemies) or comrades-in-arms bonds/losses via their horrifying experiences a lot more interesting than the parent/child themes that get presented in most average entertainment.

 

Of course, that could be because I don't have any kids. Just cats.

[Monte Carlo]

FWIW I hope nobody thought I was playing some sort of asshat "I have kids therefore I am in some way morally and / or experientially superior" bollocks.

 

Because I know that is BS.

[LadyCrimson]

I certainly wasn't thinking that.

 

It's just that I've so often gotten the "how can you be so unsympathetic/and you're a gurrrl" type of comments in the past (in RL especially) that I have a tendency to over-explain why I don't often find stuff like child in peril or family-drama dynamic stuff in entertainment heart-tugging/interesting. Especially when it's inserted into the more action/thriller-oriented entertainment ... it can definitely be used effectively, but a lot of the time it just feels like a lazy device used by writers to garner instant sympathy.

[Hurlshort]

FWIW I hope nobody thought I was playing some sort of asshat "I have kids therefore I am in some way morally and / or experientially superior" bollocks.

 

Because I know that is BS.

 

I'm not sure it makes me superior to be a parent, but I do get emotional over a ton of stuff that never would have made me bat an eye before kids.  So in that respect, a father/daughter hook is going to have more of an emotional impact on me now than it did 10 years ago.  

 

Although that really just happens in books, movies, and TV.  I haven't had any real touching moments in a video game.  But I haven't played most of these example games. 

[BruceVC]

FWIW I hope nobody thought I was playing some sort of asshat "I have kids therefore I am in some way morally and / or experientially superior" bollocks.

 

Because I know that is BS.

No I also didn't think you being supercilious at all. Your point actually added to mine because it was important that a parent also explained why they felt the father\daughter dynamic isn't the relationship panacea of the future in games

[Gorth]

I liked the way it was handled in PS:T between TNO and Annah/FFG. If played the right way, no doubt about there being some kind of sexual tension, attraction even, but not a romance. More like the ties that binds people (un)naturally together when thrown into a situation where you have to survive as a team for a while.

[Nepenthe]

I am father to a marvellous son. I enjoy an excellent relationship with him and love him dearly.

 

This is why, in games, I couldn't give a toss about excellent relationships and want to drive tiger tanks, slay dragons, enslave nations with necromancy and lead mighty armies across continents.

 

Next.

 

Another example of this and "non-romance dynamics" (and romance dynamics, to a degree) were the needy friends and girlfriends from GTA. Simialr feelings with me, if I want to go out and cause mayhem with friends, I'll just do it in real life. If I want to beat people up with a purple ****, I'll buy saints row 3 (which I did).

[Calax]

I think it's easier for the devs to produce a relationship (and get it to work correctly) between parent/child (specifically father daughter) because there's that inherent desire to protect the kid.

 

I'm finding it interesting that most of the examples are Dad/Daughter, but upon ferther thinking, I think it's actually because it makes the connection that much easier due to society's expectation. The player is Dad, he runs around doing his best to protect his child, as is expected by almost everyone on the planet. The child character is almost always a girl because, as much as people protest, the population expects dad to be FAR more protective of his daughter, and the daughter is expected to be more passive than a son would. Consider that in a similar situation to Last of Us, the Son character would probably have been maligned by the players for being to passive in the game, simply because boys are supposed to be the more independant ones that go out and save themselves ("MAN UP BOY! QUIT BEING A WUSSAY!") while girls are generally expected to be taken care of and protected.

[Nepenthe]

In an attempt to move away from buxom beauties with hourglass figures, only the gaming industry could create a setup which is actually a lot more patriarchal than the original setup of attractive women kicking ass like a boss.

[Bos_hybrid]

enslave nations with necromancy

 

Alas, I have yet to see this.

[LadyCrimson]

I think, for me, games still have a sense of emotional disconnect most of the time simply because of the format. It's not the same as sitting on a couch all relaxed and staring at a TV (or reading a book), where you can be drawn, sometimes almost unwillingly, into the emotional pathos of a story because you're entirely an observer and can focus fully on such.

 

Versus a game, where *you* have to pause to make decisions, you have to click on the environment/people to make things go, etc. It just takes a lot more effort/work for a game to get us to fully fall into an empathic emotional state because while playing a game, our brain is also heavily engaged in the logistics of task-orientation. Thus the simpler sight/sound stimulation routes (boo-scare! sexy! gore! beautiful landscape!) tend to be more consistently effective at producing a reaction.

 

Some adventure type games do better at it tho.

[Walsingham]

 

I am father to a marvellous son. I enjoy an excellent relationship with him and love him dearly.

 

This is why, in games, I couldn't give a toss about excellent relationships and want to drive tiger tanks, slay dragons, enslave nations with necromancy and lead mighty armies across continents.

 

Next.

 

Monte I find myself agreeing with you 100%...is something wrong with me? 

 

 

Yes. The same thing that's wrong with all of us.

[Walsingham]

 

Wals, I kind of hate you for making me watch that video blog.   

 

But yeah, I think it's an obvious sign that many game developers are now in their 30's and 40's and struggling with parenthood, where in the previous two decades they were mostly in their 20's.

 

Also I hope I don't die when my daughter is 15 because that might cause her to go get terrible tattoos that distract from her natural beauty.

While I don't mind a woman with tattoos, those do not look very good.

 

 

What's wrong with the video? She says at the end she's posting half asleep.

 

Felt motivated to find a still that looks better:

 

[Monte Carlo]

She's a great-looking girl and I don't mind a little bit of ink... but that's not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

 

Everybody under forty seems to be covered in tattoos. I don't have any. Maybe as part of my mid-forties, mid-life crisis I need to get illustrated.

 

Any ideas?

[Hurlshort]

It's more unique to not have tattoos, at this point.

[Nepenthe]

It's more unique to not have tattoos, at this point.

Ditto, and my earlier reference was more along the lines of tribal wings or a tramp stamp, anyway

[Gfted1]

Pretty face (looks like Kirsten Dunst) but that chest tattoo is awful. Reminds me of people that get face tattoo's, good luck in life with that mess. 

[GhostofAnakin]

Now that they've covered the gay/lesbian angle to death, next up on BioWare's agenda: Daddy/daughter relationships that are romanceable options.

[Drowsy Emperor]

What do you guys think about a game, say a point and click adventure with a story that revolves around romantic love? It would still be a traditional adventure with puzzles,  purely story driven  - not goal driven - in the sense that its not a game of finding the right options to score with someone. Neither is it an extended wooing of an NPC through dialog/puzzles.

 

Rather, the romance is woven and integral to the plot as a platonic relationship that is a motivator behind the PC's actions and other events that transpire in the game.

 

In other words, no lengthy cringe worthy dialog, no forced interactions between the player controlled character and the object of story/romance - no gamifying of the relationship in any way. The gamey parts would be strictly puzzles in service to the plot, but not to the romance itself, which would be a non interactive part of the story, save for perhaps the existence of more than one outcome to the story itself. The outcome, as per P&C standards wouldn't be the result of a multitude of modifiers but a simple and appropriate dialogue choice.

 

To put it plainly: it would be a game, a story, about love that  would not feature what passes for romance in today's games.

[Tale]

So, half the adventure games I've played. From Monkey Island to Deponia.

[BruceVC]

What do you guys think about a game, say a point and click adventure with a story that revolves around romantic love? It would still be a traditional adventure with puzzles,  purely story driven  - not goal driven - in the sense that its not a game of finding the right options to score with someone. Neither is it an extended wooing of an NPC through dialog/puzzles.

 

Rather, the romance is woven and integral to the plot as a platonic relationship that is a motivator behind the PC's actions and other events that transpire in the game.

 

In other words, no lengthy cringe worthy dialog, no forced interactions between the player controlled character and the object of story/romance - no gamifying of the relationship in any way. The gamey parts would be strictly puzzles in service to the plot, but not to the romance itself, which would be a non interactive part of the story, save for perhaps the existence of more than one outcome to the story itself. The outcome, as per P&C standards wouldn't be the result of a multitude of modifiers but a simple and appropriate dialogue choice.

 

To put it plainly: it would be a game, a story, about love that  would not feature what passes for romance in today's games.

 

Interesting idea but it wouldn't be my cup of tea

[Drowsy Emperor]

So, half the adventure games I've played. From Monkey Island to Deponia.

 

I didn't mean it that way. The romance is second fiddle to whatever passes for the main storyline in those games. And its mostly juvenile. 

 

I meant a game where the theme is love and relationships between mature (or maybe not so mature) individuals - the adventuring elements of the story are secondary to it, not the other way around.

[Tale]

 

So, half the adventure games I've played. From Monkey Island to Deponia.

 

I didn't mean it that way. The romance is second fiddle to whatever passes for the main storyline in those games. And its mostly juvenile. 

 

I meant a game where the theme is love and relationships between mature (or maybe not so mature) individuals - the adventuring elements of the story are secondary to it, not the other way around.

 

Have you played Tales of Monkey Island?