Is project eternity the best managed kickstarter game?

[BruceVC]

Considering they have failed to have the backer site up and running after 9 months and counting, they can not be considered to be the best managed by any measure.

 

 

 

To be honest I don't want to be part of a site that only has the input and views of backers. I want to chat to a wide range of people that support the concept of the game but didn't necessarily back it through KS. I feel this is more inclusive and will give me more opinions. So the fact the backer site isn't up yet isn't an issue at all for me

[Iyanga]

 

Considering they have failed to have the backer site up and running after 9 months and counting, they can not be considered to be the best managed by any measure.

 

To be honest I don't want to be part of a site that only has the input and views of backers. I want to chat to a wide range of people that support the concept of the game but didn't necessarily back it through KS. I feel this is more inclusive and will give me more opinions. So the fact the backer site isn't up yet isn't an issue at all for me

 

 

But what has this to do with the question whether the management is good or bad?

[oblomir]

They didn't even have an outline of what kind of game it was going to be and have been playing catch up since. 

 

^^

That's sort of my impression of DoubleFine Kickstarter.

 

 

In comparison inXile and Obsidian had their projects better prepared before going to KS so they do at least give off an appearance of a higher degree of competence in managing the business side of things, and I'm fairly certain it's not just appearance.

Edited July 8, 2013 by oblomir

[khango]

I am most impressed with the way PE is run out of the games I've backed on KS.

 

Star Citizen smells like a money grubbing scam. I was on their mailing list for a while and it was all about how you could pay more to start with bigger ships. Didn't back it.

I am OK with how Planetary Annihilation is going, though I find their backer site and communication methods a little frustrating. They really focus on live chats and streaming it seems like, though maybe I just don't go in their forums like I should or something.

 

So far as doublefine, I backed Massive Chalice, but not adventure. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of their games. Brutal Legend is really cool, but it's  a ***PAIN*** to play on a PC. costume quest and stacking are cute, but aren't really that fulfilling of games (I think). I'm not surprised at how things have been going for them, especially when there seemed to be no plan behind their first kickstarter. However, I think their new one seems more on the straight and narrow, and the concept of breeding heroes is pretty cool. In fact, I'd almost they skip the grid + turn based combat entirely and just focus on the hero breeding.

 

Torment I'm not thrilled with in terms of updates. About all they've got going besides vague world building is a 'vote for these features' thing that makes me deathly afraid that they're going to make it turn based. If they make it turn based, I'll be tempted to file a charge dispute over my backer money on the basis that they aren't fulfilling what they claimed. (I ********HATE******** turn-based cRPGs.)

Edited July 10, 2013 by khango

[tomimt]

Out of what I've backed I'd say Wasteland 2 is pretty well managed, as well as was Larry Reloaded, that was released some time ago. Replay pretty much delivered what they promised they would. PE seems to be doing good as well, so no complaints there. In all most of the projects I've backed seem to be doing okay, like Project Fedora, Shadowgate and Broken Sword, which all seem to be pretty much in schedule.

 

From the currently backed projects my biggest question mark at the moment is SpaceVenture. They've promised a demo, which should be out with their next update, so that will most likely have a big impact on how I feel about the project at the moment.

[nericen]

Let's see...I've backed about a 100 game-related Kickstarters.  The best managed would be Grim Dawn, Project Eternity, Star Citizen, Torment, Radio the Universe, Akaneiro, Godus, Tiny Barbarian DX, Shadowgate, Crea, Clang, Blade Symphony, Data Hacker, Pier Solar, Auro, and Party of Sin.  The worst managed would be Aleph, Orion: Prelude, The Last Sleeper, The Written World, Against the Wall, Forgequest, Rival Threads.

[Dream]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, outside of the obvious trainwrecks, the forums for each kickstarter are probably going to say that their kickstarter is the best managed so far.

[milczyciel]

Today's huge update from InXile proves to me, that Wasteland 2 (despite lack of often updates, that for some seems crucial for evaluation whether or not a specific project development is well) is one of the best if not THE best managed KS game I've backed, and the info it provides is nothing short of great and reassuring. My favorite part would be that, which covers random encounters. I can honestly say, that I didn't expected such complexity and "awareness of player's decision/builds" from this game. Right now I'm even more hyped than I was back then, at the time of KS campaign.

 

As for current state of PE, for me it seems very well managed, keeping me sound about it's development and shape of the end product, though I find it kinda weird, that it's the fan base, not Obsidian itself, that provides me with additional information like various interviews or "reveal" events that keeps happening almost monthly. Couldn't we get at least some major ones from official channels?

But aside from that I, as few before me, must mention 2 issues I have with PE in overall.

Most importantly: backer site. Sure I understand every single argument explaining why we should keep our expectations low here (not promised in the ks campaign, one man project* etc and so on). But I'm a man that takes promises very seriously, and it's almost 4 months since I (and I assume few others) got answer from Obsidian saying "our backer portal should be going live in the next few weeks" (yes I can read, and I understand what "should" means). After checking calendar I can tell you, that in these particular case few weeks equals 23. Even not mentioning updates that promised basically same thing, it makes one such as me slightly uneasy. But that fades in comparison of information blackout about backer site issue from Obsidian side, which is the second aforementioned "problem" I have with PE development (and we can argue if this falls into category all day).

I would like to point out, that (obviously) lack of information leads to imagination of those uniformed going wild. For example I was let to believe (aforementioned email) that "backer site" will allow me to upgrade up to collectors edition, which I was unable to secure, back in a day. But with the passing weeks I'm more and more worried that I won't get this chance and from here I would like to point out to those, who are not concerned about the matter, that (at least in my case) "backer site" is a crucial way for blue collars, to secure their dream(s) and in the process grant additional funds for development of given title. Sure, one can say that we have banks for that, so my point is invalid, but given the choice, I would gladly avoid taking the loan and as an example InXile gave me that opportunity. Plus on a side note: according to Brian Fargo their "back catalog sale" is one of the three prime reasons continuous development of W2 is secured so I really can't see why Obsidian seems so hesitant about reaping the benefits.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from whining or spitting hate. Far from that, and if my worries turns out to be justified, I'll handle it without going mental, because I'm a quite reasonable guy, even if it sounds different from what I've just wrote

I'm just tad impatient and slowly but steadily more and more worried, that there is more to the "problem of backer site" than meets the eye and that some promises were nothing more, than vague marketing I should be aware off (remember that thread about dropping stretch goals after Double Fine problems came up?).

 

* - Larian made one man responsible for creating pledge management, and he did it in a month despite having other responsibilities, so...

 

PS

I can't find who said that, but I totally agree with opinion he / her posted in this forum, that Obsidian well... failed... however harsh it sounds, when they didn't used the hype and interest spike caused by update #49 to launch backer site. Benefits were there, within reach. Hopefully they will come up with something just as jaw dropping again and this time, with some fulfillment / tier upgrade system up and running.

I'll keep my fingers crossed

Edited July 20, 2013 by milczyciel

[Tick]

On the note of the backer site, does anyone know why it's taken so long for PE to get its own? Is it possible some won't get a copy of the game, even if they pledged enough?

[Ignatius]

I've always been pleased with Wasteland 2's progress and their updates. Not a ton of them, no, but when they give an update it's always thorough. =/

[anonaccount1251223]

In terms of what I know and as far as I have researched I do think P:E is in a very good area compared to others including double fine and planetary Annihilation, but keep in mind this is our side of the story so we should take this with a grain of salt. 

[Wolfenbarg]

I think it's a little early to say whether or not Eternity is well managed. It's not until production is in full swing that any potential problems will pop up. 

[Agiel]

I think there is definite cause to be concerned (and I say this independent of Obsidian's track record). The Double Fine Kickstarter was among the most successful in money raised, even if it was blown out of the water by P:E and T: ToN. As someone not enormously fond of point-and-click adventure games (quite the opposite, so I'm biased), that form of games don't strike me as being even nearly as difficult to develop as a sprawling cRPG as Obsidian and inXile are making. Engine development wasn't really a factor with Double Fine, and compared to many AAA games asset creation isn't nearly as time and resource intensive, and trigger and scripting issues aren't terribly difficult to resolve as point-and-click adventure games to my untrained eye are relatively binary in that respect. Playtesting isn't that high of a priority (if it was, then I'd like to know what the QA team for Funcom was smoking when they were making the Longest Journey). Yet Schafer has disclosed that despite the Kickstarter blowing his expectations out of the water. , Double Fine was only able to make 25% of the game they wanted to make, which in my mind puts its prospects of having the rest of the development being funded by post-release sales seriously into doubt.

 

That said, there have certainly been quite a few very professional products released via Kickstarter funding, and Obsidian's transperency and willingness to share its progress to all and not just to "hardcore backers" is definite heartening. I guess what I'm saying is that constructive criticism to Obsidian on their design process can only help them, even if they have so far demonstrated a great deal of professionalism. Though someone may remind me that Obsidian has given my admittedly poor memory, but I dearly hope that they budgeted all the stretch goals before they had that Kickstarter up (which given how the DA Kickstarter took everyone by surprise makes Schafer's situation a *little* more excusable).

Edited July 21, 2013 by Agiel

[C2B]

but I dearly hope that they budgeted all the stretch goals before they had that Kickstarter up (which given how the DA Kickstarter took everyone by surprise makes Schafer's situation a *little* more excusable).

 

They didn't. But, they set the stretch goals according to their own experience working on said stretch goals. (They also refused to make the companion/class pool bigger at a certain point and the 4 million stretch goal (500'000 from the previous) was for polish and live instrumentation)

 

Double Fine on the other hand, invested a large part of their money into a documentation (which backers have backed for, but still) and didn't exactly show a desire to control scope.

[Lephys]

Technically they are behind schedule (not necessarily a bad thing, because they've been conservative with their team size) but I would say they are up there.

Schedules... They're more like guidelines anyway!

 

 

Name that reference, and win a prize!

[Tick]

 

Technically they are behind schedule (not necessarily a bad thing, because they've been conservative with their team size) but I would say they are up there.

Schedules... They're more like guidelines anyway!

 

 

Name that reference, and win a prize!

 

...Pirates of the Caribbean?

[Lephys]

...Pirates of the Caribbean?

You win a free pun... at the opportune moment.

[Bill Gates' Son]

 

Kind of relevant to the discussion.  TB goes over the risk of donating to kickstarter.

[alanschu]

I have always told people "Only contribute to Kickstarter what you are perfectly comfortable never seeing a return on."  Further, only contribute to a Kickstarter that has sufficiently convinced you that the chances of this actually happening are small.

 

I've seen some people talk about how they'll eat conservatively and whatnot, in order to contribute some larger amounts, and while that's their prerogative, I do find it concerning and a relatively high risk play.

 

I have only contributed to 3 things (one of which I actually sort of regret, though I'd likely still purchase the game regardless).

 

 

Although Total Biscuit is off when he talks about how "you don't support the developer more because you get a discount."  In a lot of cases, it's better to get a bit less money earlier than a bit more money later.  If preorders were not considered advantageous for developers/publishers, they wouldn't be done.

[Commitment Tissues]

Stoic Studios seem to have done a great job with The Banner Saga, but their PR appears to be somewhat dysfunctional. A lot of people were upset about the early pvp release (despite Stoic making clear from very early on what would happen) and there were many complaints about it being "pay to win" even though it's just about the least "pay to win" a free to play game could possibly be.

 

Their updates have been infrequent but now they're gearing up for the single player release some reassuringly forthright write ups have been published by the developers. The game mechanics and art design choices have been intelligent and focused thus far, it's these things which speak most about the competence of the developers rather than how many bullshots they can send to hack games journos. I'm not entirely convinced that there will be much in the way of sophisticated game play during the traveling caravan periods but as far as the turn based strategy element is concerned they've shown that they have completely the right approach.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if torment failed to live up to expectations given how long they seem to be procrastinating about quite fundamental game play mechanics (eg. do we even know whether it's going to be turn based or real time with pause?). And some of the early fluff seems as though would be very hard to turn into real game play. How many games promise super reactivity and how many actually deliver?

 

Star citizen appears fairly unfocused and makes lots of promises but have, by far, the largest budget. I have no idea how that will turn out.

 

Faster than light has probably been the best managed, though there have been a few other releases I'm not really familiar with.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Commitment Tissues

[moridin84]

I've only been following a few kickstarters but from what I've seen Wasteland 2 is definitely the best. They already have release date and I don't think they've cut any features. How many updates they are releasing is a different thing.

 

Project Eternity seems to be pretty high up as well.  

Edited July 30, 2013 by moridin84

[C2B]

I've only been following a few kickstarters but from what I've seen Wasteland 2 is definitely the best. They already have release date and I don't think they've cut any features. How many updates they are releasing is a different thing.

 

Project Eternity seems to be pretty high up as well.  

 

They have a release date? I thought they will make a new one during/after the beta.