Fear of women body in modern videogames

[Amentep]

Isabela has some moments of epiphany with the rivalry romance.  That's not to say her friendship romance is a poor one, but I enjoyed her character coming to the realization that she can do more and be better than she has been.

I was under the impression that Isabela will come to the same revelation in the romance with the right dialogue choices regardless of whether its a friendship romance or a rivalry romance?

[Chaz]

 

Game companies sure were a lot looser back in the 90s.

 

 

I guess they got old, or married, or both.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

This thread sure does bring the crazy out.

Isn't that common with Oby threads?

[Malcador]

I guess they got old, or married, or both.

Got bigger, got more corporate. Do miss the days of lots of publishers.

[Chaz]

 

Got bigger, got more corporate. Do miss the days of lots of publishers.

 

 

If they took a picture like that today Kotaku would make it a scandal, they would all be labeled misogynists

[Furiku]

1992?

1999, the heyday of the CRPG.

 

If they took a picture like that today Kotaku would make it a scandal, they would all be labeled misogynists

 That's because Kotaku are a bunch of talentless hacks out for hits nobody should be paying any ****ing attention to: https://soundcloud.com/ben-kuchera/jaffe-confrontation

Edited June 13, 2013 by Furiku

[Nonek]

Isn't that the dictionary definition of "game journalist?" My mistake your description doesn't include corrupt.

[Meshugger]

 

1992?

1999, the heyday of the CRPG.

 

If they took a picture like that today Kotaku would make it a scandal, they would all be labeled misogynists

 That's because Kotaku are a bunch of talentless hacks out for hits nobody should be paying any ****ing attention to: https://soundcloud.com/ben-kuchera/jaffe-confrontation

 

 

Context on the soundcloud sample please?

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

How the heck is Isabella a "middle-ground"? That lady doesn't even wear pants! She's firmly on the scantily-clad side, and proud of it!

 

Isabela is created as a juxtaposition.  Her appearance is meant to illicit a stereotypical reaction.  The thing about Isabela, however, is that her presence in the game is much more about female empowerment than female fan service.  In fact, she's utilized in a variety of ways to throw the gamer off kilter somewhat.

 

If you listen to Isabela's conversations, she is very much about empowering not only herself, but the other females of the group.  She recognizes Merril's naivety, and takes her under her wing.  Her and Aveline don't get along at all, but in the end she's still about smacking sense into Aveline for some of the absurd preconceptions and reservations that she has - and does so in her decidedly crude and Isabela sort of way.  Yes Isabela fits a common trope, but her creation was done so in a way to challenge the stereotype, as opposed to simply being an attractive woman that exists solely to serve male love interests.  She initially rejects Hawke, and ultimately isn't actually interested in any sort of maturing, serious relationship unless you happen to be rivals with her, a position that many gamers are unwilling to take (especially since most assumed Rivalry = bad).

 

In my anecdotal experience, Isabela is typically a character that resonates quite strongly with female gamers actually.  First impressions were typically not very favourable, but I think that is why many ended up really enjoying her as a character.  At least in the discussions I have had.  /shrug

 

That said, I actually agree that BioWare can make much bigger steps in this direction and I hope they continue to do so.  I don't doubt that Isabela was used in marketing because of her appearance rather than her character, and stuff like that is much less interesting and I'd like to see us be more bold in the ways that we approach appearance and marketing, rather than falling on the safe and easy tropes.

 

 

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

And here I thought it was a sort of subconscious thing that worms itself in through no fault of your own, how naive of me. 

 

By all means, empower away.

 

But you could also try writing some normal lines for your protagonists, something between the usual soft spoken ass kisser/child murderer. You know, so that the rest of us playing the game get to feel empowered too.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor

[Nepenthe]

Just not the gaming hipster crowd! "I played Bioware games before they were popular!"

[ShadySands]

Reminds me of a joke

 

How did the hipster burn his mouth?

 

...

 

He ate the pizza before it was cool

 

 

Sorry I've been drinking and I've got nothing on topic

[HoonDing]

Just not the gaming hipster crowd! "I played Bioware games before they were popular!"

I liked Shattered Steel too.

[Nepenthe]

 

Just not the gaming hipster crowd! "I played Bioware games before they were popular!"

I liked Shattered Steel too.

 

I think you meant "Shattered Steel is absolutely the best game Bioware has ever produced! Too bad you've probably never heard of it!"

[HoonDing]

Speaking of these mech games and current Titanfall (and to lesser extent, Xenoblade sequel) hype, a Shattered Steel sequel more in the vein of Mass Effect wouldn't be a bad move for BioWare.

[BruceVC]

This thread sure does bring the crazy out.

 

I really don't think you are that eccentric or crazy Hurlshot, is that how you see yourself?

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

How the heck is Isabella a "middle-ground"? That lady doesn't even wear pants! She's firmly on the scantily-clad side, and proud of it!

 

Isabela is created as a juxtaposition.  Her appearance is meant to illicit a stereotypical reaction.  The thing about Isabela, however, is that her presence in the game is much more about female empowerment than female fan service.  In fact, she's utilized in a variety of ways to throw the gamer off kilter somewhat.

 

If you listen to Isabela's conversations, she is very much about empowering not only herself, but the other females of the group.  She recognizes Merril's naivety, and takes her under her wing.  Her and Aveline don't get along at all, but in the end she's still about smacking sense into Aveline for some of the absurd preconceptions and reservations that she has - and does so in her decidedly crude and Isabela sort of way.  Yes Isabela fits a common trope, but her creation was done so in a way to challenge the stereotype, as opposed to simply being an attractive woman that exists solely to serve male love interests.  She initially rejects Hawke, and ultimately isn't actually interested in any sort of maturing, serious relationship unless you happen to be rivals with her, a position that many gamers are unwilling to take (especially since most assumed Rivalry = bad).

 

In my anecdotal experience, Isabela is typically a character that resonates quite strongly with female gamers actually.  First impressions were typically not very favourable, but I think that is why many ended up really enjoying her as a character.  At least in the discussions I have had.  /shrug

 

That said, I actually agree that BioWare can make much bigger steps in this direction and I hope they continue to do so.  I don't doubt that Isabela was used in marketing because of her appearance rather than her character, and stuff like that is much less interesting and I'd like to see us be more bold in the ways that we approach appearance and marketing, rather than falling on the safe and easy tropes.

 

 

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

 

 

 

I am sorry you have an issue with Bioware making games that are inclusive of all there fans. I can guarantee you that the majority of there fans are "normal" heterosexual males.

 

But we aren't living in the 1800's and also women can vote now? Not sure if you are aware of that ?

 

[BruceVC]

 

How the heck is Isabella a "middle-ground"? That lady doesn't even wear pants! She's firmly on the scantily-clad side, and proud of it!

 

Isabela is created as a juxtaposition.  Her appearance is meant to illicit a stereotypical reaction.  The thing about Isabela, however, is that her presence in the game is much more about female empowerment than female fan service.  In fact, she's utilized in a variety of ways to throw the gamer off kilter somewhat.

 

If you listen to Isabela's conversations, she is very much about empowering not only herself, but the other females of the group.  She recognizes Merril's naivety, and takes her under her wing.  Her and Aveline don't get along at all, but in the end she's still about smacking sense into Aveline for some of the absurd preconceptions and reservations that she has - and does so in her decidedly crude and Isabela sort of way.  Yes Isabela fits a common trope, but her creation was done so in a way to challenge the stereotype, as opposed to simply being an attractive woman that exists solely to serve male love interests.  She initially rejects Hawke, and ultimately isn't actually interested in any sort of maturing, serious relationship unless you happen to be rivals with her, a position that many gamers are unwilling to take (especially since most assumed Rivalry = bad).

 

In my anecdotal experience, Isabela is typically a character that resonates quite strongly with female gamers actually.  First impressions were typically not very favourable, but I think that is why many ended up really enjoying her as a character.  At least in the discussions I have had.  /shrug

 

That said, I actually agree that BioWare can make much bigger steps in this direction and I hope they continue to do so.  I don't doubt that Isabela was used in marketing because of her appearance rather than her character, and stuff like that is much less interesting and I'd like to see us be more bold in the ways that we approach appearance and marketing, rather than falling on the safe and easy tropes.

 

 

A good post Alan. You have explained the nuances and depth to Isabela's personality and that she isn't what many people at first perceive.

[Blarghagh]

But if they have to vote when will they have time for cleaning?

[BruceVC]

But if they have to vote when will they have time for cleaning?

 

 

Funny

[obyknven]

http://www.jackthompson.org/

The controversy is creeping into every home. What are your children playing? How much adult content is there in these games? Is it suitable? Is the rating any good? Does it prevent children from buying things they shouldn't be able to buy?

Where can you go for more information?

 

Jack Thompson is one of the most outspoken opponents of sexuality and violence in video games. Along with other notables such as Hillary Clinton, Jack Thompson has sent literally hundreds of letters, dozens of media appearances, and even several law suits, all attempting to restrict harmful video games from reaching the hands of youth.

 

He is most white knigth evar. I just wondering how many trusted followers of this saint men i find on this forum. Hallelujah brothers!

[Chaz]

 

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

I don't know about liberals but the core gamer demographic is still overwhelmingly male

Edited June 14, 2013 by Chaz

[Malcador]

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

And here I thought it was a sort of subconscious thing that worms itself in through no fault of your own, how naive of me. 

 

By all means, empower away.

 

But you could also try writing some normal lines for your protagonists, something between the usual soft spoken ass kisser/child murderer. You know, so that the rest of us playing the game get to feel empowered too.

They have to be inclusive because..I guess those people can't step out of themselves or something. And it's great PR to do stuff like that - SJWs will flock to you.

 

But anyway, not like he'll listen to your opinion - you're just some hate-filled, fascist Slav

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

I don't know about liberals but the core gamer demographic is still overwhelmingly male

 

 

Having testicles is where all similarity ends, between a regular male and a BSN "male" forum goer.

 

Go on, check it out. We'll see how long it'll take you to come back screaming for the Spanish inquisition.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

And here I thought it was a sort of subconscious thing that worms itself in through no fault of your own, how naive of me. 

 

By all means, empower away.

 

But you could also try writing some normal lines for your protagonists, something between the usual soft spoken ass kisser/child murderer. You know, so that the rest of us playing the game get to feel empowered too.

They have to be inclusive because..I guess those people can't step out of themselves or something. And it's great PR to do stuff like that - SJWs will flock to you.

 

But anyway, not like he'll listen to your opinion - you're just some hate-filled, fascist Slav

 

 

I'm just trolling him, he's beyond salvation anyway 

[BruceVC]

 

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

And here I thought it was a sort of subconscious thing that worms itself in through no fault of your own, how naive of me. 

 

By all means, empower away.

 

But you could also try writing some normal lines for your protagonists, something between the usual soft spoken ass kisser/child murderer. You know, so that the rest of us playing the game get to feel empowered too.

They have to be inclusive because..I guess those people can't step out of themselves or something. And it's great PR to do stuff like that - SJWs will flock to you.

 

But anyway, not like he'll listen to your opinion - you're just some hate-filled, fascist Slav

 

Malc some people actually believe in the principle of equality and they don't do it just because it makes them sound good to say so in public

 

But I am interested in your comment around the words "those people". In the context of this discussion who are " those people"

 

 

 

 

So its true, you are purposefully making games for the gay/liberal/feminist/hipster crowd.

 

I don't know about liberals but the core gamer demographic is still overwhelmingly male

 

 

Having testicles is where all similarity ends, between a regular male and a BSN "male" forum goer.

 

Go on, check it out. We'll see how long it'll take you to come back screaming for the Spanish inquisition.

 

 

Don't you think your generalized opinion of the people who frequent BSN is a little  insulting and fatuous?