EA Granted Star Wars License

[Volourn]

"BG1 and BG2 were the best games Bioware ever made by a huge margin,"

 

HAHAHAH! BG1 is one of their worst. HAHAHAHA!

[Oerwinde]

"BG1 and BG2 were the best games Bioware ever made by a huge margin,"

 

HAHAHAH! BG1 is one of their worst. HAHAHAHA!

 

Stop it. I hate agreeing with you.

 

The best thing about BG1 is it set up BG2, which is in my opinion, Bioware's best game, and I've liked pretty much everything else they have made more than BG1. That said, I did like BG1.

 

I'm personally happy with Bioware doing Star Wars games. SWTOR was hindered by sticking with tried and true MMO gameplay that after 9 years of pretty much every MMO using the same mechanics, just felt stale and boring. Grinding monsters and abilities with cooldowns, it got old REAL fast, I just wanted to motor around for the story, but the grind got in the way of that. Bioware can be forgiven though, since Edmonton will likely be making the SW games, not Austin, and Edmonton is the studio many of us know and love.

 

I just hope we don't see the damned dialogue wheel in every game, because its a pile of poodoo.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, the problem can be looking too close to the stats and listening to well to the fans.

 

From what I hear a lot of people left during the origins in DA:O (what with the "new ****" campaign telling so well it's a RPG). Instead of looking at the abhorrant marketing however, they modified their game to this 'statistic'. We all know what the result was, DA2.

 

On the other hand I really liked ME3. Sure, I too would be happier if it ended just before the space kid sequence, but I don't think the entire series got taunted for it. Still hate ME2 for having no plot what-so-ever though.

 

*Which I'm about 90% sure I got despite no MP, but it may have been after a patch

Yeah, they lowered it in the "revised ending" patch.

[Zoraptor]

I don't have the revised ending though, as I couldn't be bothered managing the bandwidth for it- though I guess they may have split the 'patch' part and the 'content' parts. One of the things I actually like about Origin and how ME3 was handled was that I never had to download the new ending, nor any MP content which I wasn't going to use.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

But somehow, BG1 and BG2 were the best games Bioware ever made by a huge margin

 

By YOUR margin.

 

 

 

By anyone's margin. Don't kid yourself that any of your other games will be as played a decade from now as BGII is. 

 

Not that that matters really, its all about the money after all.

 

Still, it would take a fool not to see that the brand, more than the games themselves, is on a downward spiral - even among the fanatical idiots on BN.

Ah, the heavy burden of fame. How quickly it goes from adoration to ridicule. 

Edited May 12, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

By anyone's margin. Don't kid yourself that any of your other games will be as played a decade from now as BGII is. 

 

Not that that matters really, its all about the money after all.

 

Still, it would take a fool not to see that the brand, more than the games themselves, is on a downward spiral - even among the fanatical idiots on BN.

Ah, the heavy burden of fame. How quickly it goes from adoration to ridicule. 

 

 

Nah, Mass Effect will very likely be played quite a bit over the next decade.  It might even have a bigger impact on gaming as a whole.  When I wear my Commander Shephard N7 shirt, middle school students know what it is.  They have no idea what Baldur's Gate is.  

 

After Dragon's Age 2 I said that I am clearly not in the Bioware Wheelhouse anymore.  But I'm not equating that to mean they are making terrible games.  They are making games for a different audience, one that is much larger than us crotchety old folks, Boo.  You might have an argument if these games got terrible reviews, but that doesn't happen.  They sell well, they score well, and they are heavily polished.  

[Malcador]

Games still get bad reviews these days ?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Games still get bad reviews these days ?

These days bad is anything lower than 85%.

[Hurlshort]

There are plenty of games that get bad reviews.  The trouble is you can usually tell that it's a bad game simply by looking at it.  It's pretty rare for a AAA title to get a bad review because, once again, the reviews are written for general audience.  Not us superior folks

[Nonek]

Got to say I can't really see where all the rage is coming from, Bioware and EA make games that seem ideally suited to the Star Wars milieu, this seems to be a marriage made in heaven. Though I admit I thought Kreia was the only point of interest in the whole setting.

[Volourn]

"y anyone's margin. Don't kid yourself that any of your other games will be as played a decade from now as BGII is."
 

That's what people claimed about NWN yet it's still played more than the BGs.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

 

By anyone's margin. Don't kid yourself that any of your other games will be as played a decade from now as BGII is. 

 

Not that that matters really, its all about the money after all.

 

Still, it would take a fool not to see that the brand, more than the games themselves, is on a downward spiral - even among the fanatical idiots on BN.

Ah, the heavy burden of fame. How quickly it goes from adoration to ridicule. 

 

 

Nah, Mass Effect will very likely be played quite a bit over the next decade.  It might even have a bigger impact on gaming as a whole.  When I wear my Commander Shephard N7 shirt, middle school students know what it is.  They have no idea what Baldur's Gate is.  

 

After Dragon's Age 2 I said that I am clearly not in the Bioware Wheelhouse anymore.  But I'm not equating that to mean they are making terrible games.  They are making games for a different audience, one that is much larger than us crotchety old folks, Boo.  You might have an argument if these games got terrible reviews, but that doesn't happen.  They sell well, they score well, and they are heavily polished.  

 

 

Dragon Age 2 reviews? ME3 ending fiasco? 

 

You weren't reading carefully. I was saying the Bioware brand name is declining in value faster than the quality of their games. Its an intangible thing, sure - but reputation is still important to a certain extent.

First the EA thing, then DA2, then ME3 ending  - not to mention the worst failure of them all - TOR. I might not have liked KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Age etc, but they were undisputed hits in their time. There was no need for damage control back then, not nearly to the extent they need now.

 

Now everything they do is disputed, even when they do it right (like ME3), partly because they're with EA and partly because they're screwing up in places they didn't before.

 

Its an obvious trend.  Where exactly it'll lead I can't say.

 

And as Malcador pointed out, no AAA game gets bad reviews today. When you've sunk 200+mil into a project what's a million more in advertising to make sure all the major sites and publications are in your pocket.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

By anyone's margin. Don't kid yourself that any of your other games will be as played a decade from now as BGII is. 

 

Not that that matters really, its all about the money after all.

 

Still, it would take a fool not to see that the brand, more than the games themselves, is on a downward spiral - even among the fanatical idiots on BN.

Ah, the heavy burden of fame. How quickly it goes from adoration to ridicule. 

 

 

Nah, Mass Effect will very likely be played quite a bit over the next decade.  It might even have a bigger impact on gaming as a whole.  When I wear my Commander Shephard N7 shirt, middle school students know what it is.  They have no idea what Baldur's Gate is.  

 

After Dragon's Age 2 I said that I am clearly not in the Bioware Wheelhouse anymore.  But I'm not equating that to mean they are making terrible games.  They are making games for a different audience, one that is much larger than us crotchety old folks, Boo.  You might have an argument if these games got terrible reviews, but that doesn't happen.  They sell well, they score well, and they are heavily polished.  

 

 

Dragon Age 2 reviews? ME3 ending fiasco? 

 

You weren't reading carefully. I was saying the Bioware brand name is declining in value faster than the quality of their games. Its an intangible thing, sure - but reputation is still important to a certain extent.

First the EA thing, then DA2, then ME3 ending  - not to mention the worst failure of them all - TOR. I might not have liked KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Age etc, but they were undisputed hits in their time. There was no need for damage control back then, not nearly to the extent they need now.

 

Now everything they do is disputed, even when they do it right (like ME3), partly because they're with EA and partly because they're screwing up in places they didn't before.

 

Its an obvious trend.  Where exactly it'll lead I can't say.

 

And as Malcador pointed out, no AAA game gets bad reviews today. When you've sunk 200+mil into a project what's a million more in advertising to make sure all the major sites and publications are in your pocket.

 

 

I am not sure about some of the points you made Drowsy. For example I enjoyed both ME3 and DA2, I actually still don't understand why people were so angry about ME3 just because of the ending when they should judge the game in the context of the entire game. I admit I was not a hard core fan of the ME series so for me the entire series was fun, not fantastic but fun. So I suppose I didn't expect too much than what they provided

 

Also we live in an era where more people play more RPG's than ever before and there is much more discussion and scrutiny of games than in previous times. So naturally any perceived problems would seem to more announced and prolific. Back in the day of older RPG the mediums of communications and depths of fandom  weren't as established so less people would voice there opinions as vociferously.

 

I guess end of the day for me Bioware didn't really screwup,the DA series wasn't as good as BG but I still support them and look forward to DA3.

And I consider myself a real fan of fantasy RPG

Edited May 12, 2013 by BruceVC

[babaganoosh13]

Outside of MDK2 (once), ME3 (once), and Shattered Steel (I'll play it eventually - I got it off GOG); I've played and beat every other (non-MMO) Bioware game at least or more times than the BG's. In some cases, many more (KOTOR, Jade Empire, ME1, DAO). You know, (outside of DAO) before I had kids.

 

I'm pretty certain I'll need a video card upgrade for DA3. I'm hoping it will just be something where I just need to put Win7 on a different partition on my HD and run it from there vs. needing a whole different computer. I think there's supposed to be news at E3. I hope they have different human origins. Me thinks I'll be buying shortly after release. Me just hopes I wont be punished for doing so (a la Sebastian/Exiled Prince.) Otherwise, I'll be waiting for a price drop this time.

 

The DA story has me more engaged than what the BG one did.

 

-----------------------

 

What I think will be the most interesting when it comes to Star Wars and BioWare, is what it will be like without Drew. Obviously, Drew wasn't a published Star Wars writer before KOTOR. It will be interesting to see if the next Drew comes out of this. Even the guys at work with whom we shared the Star Wars books with each other all agree that nobody writes the battles better than him, and none of them have ever really got into the Bioware games. That is of course assuming that the BioWare division makes another SW game.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Dragon Age 2 reviews? ME3 ending fiasco? 

 

You weren't reading carefully. I was saying the Bioware brand name is declining in value faster than the quality of their games. Its an intangible thing, sure - but reputation is still important to a certain extent.

First the EA thing, then DA2, then ME3 ending  - not to mention the worst failure of them all - TOR. I might not have liked KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Age etc, but they were undisputed hits in their time. There was no need for damage control back then, not nearly to the extent they need now.

 

Now everything they do is disputed, even when they do it right (like ME3), partly because they're with EA and partly because they're screwing up in places they didn't before.

 

Its an obvious trend.  Where exactly it'll lead I can't say.

 

And as Malcador pointed out, no AAA game gets bad reviews today. When you've sunk 200+mil into a project what's a million more in advertising to make sure all the major sites and publications are in your pocket.

 

 

There just isn't any evidence to support the idea that Bioware's brand name has declined.  It isn't backed up by any sales numbers.  

 

We also live in a very different time, as Bruce already stated, and internet discussions are everywhere.  But you've got to realize that forums like BSN represent a super tiny part of the actual customer base.  It doesn't matter how much whining goes on there if people still line up to buy the games on day one.  Plus many of their previous works have been disputed, NWN and Jade Empire got plenty of complaints.

 

This whole profit versus creativity thing doesn't really work for me.  Creativity is subjective, profit is not.  If a game sells a lot of copies, then clearly it is appealing to a large audience.  

[C2B]

 

This whole profit versus creativity thing doesn't really work for me.  Creativity is subjective, profit is not.  If a game sells a lot of copies, then clearly it is appealing to a large audience.  

 

 

Yes, it appeals. But,...

 

Creativity isn't THAT subjective. Especially if you use it in a comparison to sales numbers or in a profit driven industry like AAA video games.

 

For the simple reason that you are out to appeal to the biggest possible consumer base. Which ALSO means to the lowest common determinator. To achieve that, sacrificing complexity and creativity is a process that happens automatically.

Edited May 13, 2013 by C2B

[BruceVC]

 

 

This whole profit versus creativity thing doesn't really work for me.  Creativity is subjective, profit is not.  If a game sells a lot of copies, then clearly it is appealing to a large audience.  

 

 

Yes, it appeals. But,...

 

Creativity isn't THAT subjective. Especially if you use it in a comparison to sales numbers or in a profit driven industry like AAA video games.

 

For the simple reason that you are out to appeal to the biggest possible consumer base. Which ALSO means to the lowest common determinator. To achieve that, sacrificing complexity and creativity is a process that happens automatically.

 

 

But surly we need to  give the masses of "uninformed fans" some credit that they do expect at least creativity from the likes of the ME series. Millions of people support this series, are you suggesting that these games lack creativity? I may be misunderstanding your point but surly the high sales figures and fandom tell us these games are very entertaining to many people

[C2B]

 

But surly we need to  give the masses of "uninformed fans" some credit that they do expect at least creativity from the likes of the ME series. Millions of people support this series, are you suggesting that these games lack creativity? I may be misunderstanding your point but surly the high sales figures and fandom tell us these games are very entertaining to many people

 

 

 

And how does that matter?

 

Something being very entertaining to many people does not mean it is super creative.

 

If you want a (somewhat) better comparison for the phenomenon I'm talking about, look at culinary art. Lots of people like McDonald's, or fast food in general. Because these are products made for the biggest possible consumer base, they aren't exactly comparable to self-made dishes you'd get in a restaurant.

And *at least*? Creativity is something rather difficult.

 

So, no I don't expect the Mass Effect series to be super creative. In most cases I'm satisfied already in people trying to be creative.

Edited May 13, 2013 by C2B

[BruceVC]

ame

 

 

But surly we need to  give the masses of "uninformed fans" some credit that they do expect at least creativity from the likes of the ME series. Millions of people support this series, are you suggesting that these games lack creativity? I may be misunderstanding your point but surly the high sales figures and fandom tell us these games are very entertaining to many people

 

 

 

And how does that matter?

 

Something being very entertaining to many people does not mean it is super creative.

 

If you want a (somewhat) better comparison for the phenomenon I'm talking about, look at culinary art. Lots of people like McDonald's, or fast food in general. Because these are products made for the biggest possible consumer base, they aren't exactly comparable to self-made dishes you'd get in a restaurant.

And *at least*? Creativity is something rather difficult.

 

So, no I don't expect the Mass Effect series to be super creative. In most cases I'm satisfied already in people trying to be creative.

 

 

Good point about the McDonalds analogy, but I am not sure if its the same things as a game that people would play for dozens of hours and spend hundreds of hours discussing? But I do see the point you are making.

[Hurlshort]

I would put casual games like what you find on facebook more in the fast food category.  Mass Effect is like Olive Garden.  Endless soup bowls and stuff.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I would put casual games like what you find on facebook more in the fast food category.  Mass Effect is like Olive Garden.  Endless soup bowls and stuff.

I wonder what Bioware puts in their games that is like endless soup and bread?

[pmp10]

Got to say I can't really see where all the rage is coming from, Bioware and EA make games that seem ideally suited to the Star Wars milieu, this seems to be a marriage made in heaven. Though I admit I thought Kreia was the only point of interest in the whole setting.

That's kind the point. Some people were hoping for a new take on the franchise.

Maybe it's a little naive to expect risk-taking in modern AAA games but Kotor2 showed that setting holds promise.

Instead milking of the same exhausted concepts will take place. Just with minor variations.

[Hurlshort]

Endless soup:

 

[BruceVC]

I would put casual games like what you find on facebook more in the fast food category.  Mass Effect is like Olive Garden.  Endless soup bowls and stuff.

 

Interesting, where would you rate the following games in the food scale

• Skyrim
• BG2
• Gothic 1&2
• Far Cry 3

   

[Tale]

I can't be joyed or aggravated by the news. I simply do not hold Star Wars with any degree of reverence. There's more junk with the Star Wars label on it than actual quality material at this point. And that's not even a particularly recent development.