Update #51: Prototype 2 Update

[Tuckey]

 

@Caerdon  lol that really made my day )

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I would humbly submit that Obsidian consider sampling some of the monsters from our long running thread of member created monsters. Even if they need tweaking, I believe there is alot of great material within that thread.

 

See the smilies? I haven't debased myself with smilies since I was 15. So, perhaps you should consider this suggestion seriously.

[Hormalakh]

"Is there a particular feature that you would like to know more about?"

 

I would like to know more about what Tim Cain's up to. Can we have him chat with us a bit?

[jamoecw]

 

I'm not sure if it would be possible in a game like this, but it would be cool if there were parts in the game we get ambushed from behind or maybe as your crossing a bridge we get stuck over a cavern and enemy's come out from both sides to flank us. I hope technology has fixed the pathing issues from 15 yrs ago in these games. 

It's already done in IWD series, so why not now?  Even in PnP, some of us must have entertained our players by surprising their parties with classic ambushes and/or multiple waves of attacks such as, invisible stalkers, statues turning out to be gargoyles, and some monsters appear out of what's supposed to be mirrors et cetera.  The point is, throwing screwballs to the players through various game-plays but, at the same time, in order not to make the players feel unfair, the settings must be convincing enough for them to expect certain creatures/enemies.  So, if they are tied to the lore, they are even better, producing a synergy effect.  I hope they will come up with a good camp system, which will allow the players to think about their tactics, preparing to handcrafted maps/challenges.

 

PS I was not happy with the same monsters repeatedly appearing out of thin air in NWN2 OC.  It didn't only feel unfair but also repetitive and even silly - honestly, I think it's a result of noob DMing.  

 

i love the flexibility you have in pnp over crpgs, get ambushed on a rope bridge?have everyone except the mage charge one side, while they do that the mage casts protection from missiles on himself, as his party reach the other side and uncontested enemy charge the mage have him cast fly then you cut the bridge and no more ambush.  come across statures that seem odd for whatever reason, smash them while they are waiting for you to turn your back, generally if you are in a place that you can be ambushed in there isn't any reason not to smash the statues (barring plot elements, or having a character that wouldn't do that sort of thing).  i remember when i played fallout 3, there was someone who was going to kill the sheriff the moment he turned his back, it was pretty obvious to me.  so like you always do with potential hostiles you have someone behind them when escorting them (in this case me), and when he made his move i was ready and put 3 shots into his head before he got his first shot off.  it didn't seem to phase him, so i took cover and planned for a long and difficult shoot out, but the next head shot i lined up dropped him from full to death easy.  the sheriff's death should have been a cut scene, as it was completely out of my control.  in pnp having adapted to the situation the dm would have adapted as well.

 

i find it a step in the right direction next to the first game's complete lack of such encounters (though a 15 minute rest wouldn't have any sort of encounters, now would it?).  but then next to baldur's gate or icewind dale they both are pretty lacking in that area.

[Lephys]

i remember when i played fallout 3, there was someone who was going to kill the sheriff the moment he turned his back, it was pretty obvious to me.  so like you always do with potential hostiles you have someone behind them when escorting them (in this case me), and when he made his move i was ready and put 3 shots into his head before he got his first shot off.  it didn't seem to phase him, so i took cover and planned for a long and difficult shoot out, but the next head shot i lined up dropped him from full to death easy.  the sheriff's death should have been a cut scene, as it was completely out of my control.  in pnp having adapted to the situation the dm would have adapted as well.

I'm pretty sure I remember that part, or one almost exactly like it, at least. It was in Megaton. Some guy was sitting in the saloon, waiting for someone else to walk in, and after some scripted timer, he stands up and initiates combat, and it seems as though his shots are turned into insta-kills. BUT, if you attack the guy before he makes a move on the person he's trying to kill, everyone turns hostile on you (which makes sense, I suppose, but it seems like you should've been able to warn someone or bring it up somehow without resorting to "either kill him and have everyone think you're crazy, or just stand there while he kills the guy you know he's going to kill."

 

I actually retried that like 15 times, and finally managed to time things JUST right (I was a melee specialist, and I finally initiated VATS the very INSTANT he began drawing his weapon, and disarmed him before he could get a shot off). I think it was supposed to be that he definitely, without fail, kills that guy, as the outcome of however you handled that situation. Which, A) shouldn't have been the case if it's reasonable that you could know about it ahead of time (you should be able to at least ATTEMPT to do something about it before it goes down), and B) I shouldn't have been able to stop it if it was going to be inevitable, and C) If I was able to stop it, it shouldn't have required such extreme meta-gamey micromanagement and tweaking to "trick" the game into letting me stop it.

[rjshae]

I actually retried that like 15 times, and finally managed to time things JUST right (I was a melee specialist, and I finally initiated VATS the very INSTANT he began drawing his weapon, and disarmed him before he could get a shot off). I think it was supposed to be that he definitely, without fail, kills that guy, as the outcome of however you handled that situation. Which, A) shouldn't have been the case if it's reasonable that you could know about it ahead of time (you should be able to at least ATTEMPT to do something about it before it goes down), and B) I shouldn't have been able to stop it if it was going to be inevitable, and C) If I was able to stop it, it shouldn't have required such extreme meta-gamey micromanagement and tweaking to "trick" the game into letting me stop it.

 

Yes it's a bit of a challenge, but given the circumstances it's hard to see how to avoid the situation once you notify the Sheriff. I haven't tried disarming the bomb first to see if the same scenario still plays out, but that might be the alternative solution provided.

[Lephys]

Yes it's a bit of a challenge, but given the circumstances it's hard to see how to avoid the situation once you notify the Sheriff. I haven't tried disarming the bomb first to see if the same scenario still plays out, but that might be the alternative solution provided.

I think I disarmed it first. But, I can't remember the details now well enough to really verify the scripting of the situation. 8P

 

I just recall it being one of those "Why won't the game allow me to employ caution here" situations. I mean, the sherriff goes in there (if I'm not mistaken) without his gun drawn or ANYthing, to talk to a guy who tried to hire someone to destroy an entire town. The SHERRIFF'S entire town! He's just all "Hey, excuse me, but I'm not happy with your bullcrap, and, if it pleases you, I'd like it if you perhaps left town. And also please don't pull a weapon out and shoot me right now."

 

I think I actually had to stand in the right spot so as to prevent the bullet from hitting the Sherriff. And, it's funny, 'cause the game's actually scripted with "Oh, thanks for saving my life" stuff, but hardly any at all. Like it was an afterthought because you're not "supposed" to have enough time/be able to stop that one-shot-kill bullet (from a gun that doesn't even do that much damage) to take down the Sheriff in a "surprise attack" (Now that I think about it, I think he does it after the Sheriff stupidly turns his back to stroll out of the saloon). Again, it seems a bit silly and restrictive to provide absolutely no options for "WAIT, HE'S GOT A GUN!". Or "I wouldn't trust this guy... better keep an eye on him until he leaves, at least." Etc.

[J. Trudel]

The feature that I would like to learn the most about is the fog of war. While it does make sense to have this feature for gameplay purpose. It usually deal a severe blow to the artwork, will there be any way to turn it off ? Or at least is there any ideas you guys had to have a fog of war that will not ruin the beautiful artwork ? Shading the world in a gray fog would be really sad...

 

Here's a couple of ideas that could make this feature not as artwork obtrusive than in other games.

• Only the creatures can't be seen because of the FoW, they kind of disappear when they are out of sight. This option make sense gameplay wise and it leave the world for us to see and appreciate in it's full splendor. 
• Making it only optional, this option can alter the gameplay but many players would appreciate the fact that they can make the game like they want. 
• Another option would be to restrict the scrolling of the screen, so that the player can look around, but not to far from the party. More difficult to implement especially when the party split up, but it could be done by switching the viewpoint between characters. 

[Adam Brennecke]

"Is there a particular feature that you would like to know more about?"

 

I would like to know more about what Tim Cain's up to. Can we have him chat with us a bit?

 

Tim is writing next week's update.

[Godfather101]

 

"Is there a particular feature that you would like to know more about?"

 

I would like to know more about what Tim Cain's up to. Can we have him chat with us a bit?

 

Tim is writing next week's update.

 

hope he will write something about MCAs Arcanum playthrough. ^^

[Lephys]

 

"Is there a particular feature that you would like to know more about?"

 

I would like to know more about what Tim Cain's up to. Can we have him chat with us a bit?

 

Tim is writing next week's update.

 

Maybe he could write it as if engaging in a casual chat with us for a bit. 8D

[Falkon Swiftblade]

is next week update prototype 2? I'm not sure if thats gonna show interior cave space or that village, but that would be mega sweet!

[Hormalakh]

 

"Is there a particular feature that you would like to know more about?"

 

I would like to know more about what Tim Cain's up to. Can we have him chat with us a bit?

 

Tim is writing next week's update.

 

 

Awesome! Thanks!

[rjshae]

The feature that I would like to learn the most about is the fog of war. While it does make sense to have this feature for gameplay purpose. It usually deal a severe blow to the artwork, will there be any way to turn it off ? Or at least is there any ideas you guys had to have a fog of war that will not ruin the beautiful artwork ? Shading the world in a gray fog would be really sad...

 

I wonder if a mild distance-blur effect would work? Gradually fading into haze, then a solid gray fog.

[LadyCrimson]

I dunno...if a game is designed to have a fog of war, seems like turning it off would really ruin the discovery part of the game. But I suppose if one doesn't mind losing that, an option to turn it off could be fine. Myself, in such games I just prefer to uncover everything by actually exploring. But then, I'm not the sort who is annoyed by a little bit of fog of war left on map or mountain edges.

 

You could have the type of fog that some games use for after you've uncovered area ... the filter affect where you can see trees and landscape through it, but not people/certain features....instead of a total black screen effect. You'd still lose some of the discovery/surprise tho, even if towns, cave entrances etc weren't initially visible (just land/trees/water features).

 

P.S. If you're more concerned about how much is completely visible even after "discovering" it (view/light radius distance of party et al), that's a bit different. You could still do something similar, with no fog of war at all but people/creatures not showing up until a certain distance, but that might feel a bit odd if they just popped into the middle of the screen. So seems like you'd still want some kind of light/other filter past the view radius "circle."

[Lephys]

P.S. If you're more concerned about how much is completely visible even after "discovering" it (view/light radius distance of party et al), that's a bit different. You could still do something similar, with no fog of war at all but people/creatures not showing up until a certain distance, but that might feel a bit odd if they just popped into the middle of the screen. So seems like you'd still want some kind of light/other filter past the view radius "circle."

It would be a little weird, but they wouldn't be popping up in the middle of the screen, completely by surprise (by "middle of the screen" I mean "near your party as opposed to out at the edge of the viewable area"), since they'd be visible within your sight range (should be decently formidable) unless they are otherwise enstealthinated (that's a word now). I kinda like the idea, really. Maybe they sort of fade into detail as you get closer to them? You know, as far as you can possibly see, you can only make out movement or general shape size. Then, you get a little closer, and you can make out more details. Up until a reasonable distance, at which point you can make out all the necessary details. This could be especially interesting in darkness, where it's not so much that you can't see people/things, as much as it is that they just look like shadowy blobs and it's hard to distinguish where the actually are, which way they're facing/moving, etc.

[Solstis]

A bit late but I'm loving the concept of that village. Don't let the naysayers get you down guys, this game is looking awesome. Keep up that classic look, it's really amazing.

[Sensuki]

Re: Fog of war

 

I do prefer it to be black when you first enter the area, for at least wilderness areas and dungeons rather than it being already revealed like in BG2.

[Malekith]

Re: Fog of war

 

I do prefer it to be black when you first enter the area, for at least wilderness areas and dungeons rather than it being already revealed like in BG2.

I prefer BG2 way. Wilderness and dungeons black, cities already revealed. Where did you found a dungeon already revealed in BG2?

[Sensuki]

Didn't mean Dungeons. I just meant I hope that at least wilderness and dungeons are blacked out, but I prefer everything to be blacked out like BG1. But that is a very minor quibble.

[jamoecw]

I dunno...if a game is designed to have a fog of war, seems like turning it off would really ruin the discovery part of the game. But I suppose if one doesn't mind losing that, an option to turn it off could be fine. Myself, in such games I just prefer to uncover everything by actually exploring. But then, I'm not the sort who is annoyed by a little bit of fog of war left on map or mountain edges.

 

You could have the type of fog that some games use for after you've uncovered area ... the filter affect where you can see trees and landscape through it, but not people/certain features....instead of a total black screen effect. You'd still lose some of the discovery/surprise tho, even if towns, cave entrances etc weren't initially visible (just land/trees/water features).

 

P.S. If you're more concerned about how much is completely visible even after "discovering" it (view/light radius distance of party et al), that's a bit different. You could still do something similar, with no fog of war at all but people/creatures not showing up until a certain distance, but that might feel a bit odd if they just popped into the middle of the screen. So seems like you'd still want some kind of light/other filter past the view radius "circle."

in IE games even though there was a fog of war, enemies would be viewable based on their own merits.  so sometimes enemies would be viewable even in the fog of war, and sometimes non stealth enemies would pop out of nowhere due to various factors not revealing them immediately after leaving the fog of war.

 

i do like having some method of knowing what i can see personally though.

[JFSOCC]

here's a question: do you devs read these late posts?

[J. Trudel]

I dunno...if a game is designed to have a fog of war, seems like turning it off would really ruin the discovery part of the game. But I suppose if one doesn't mind losing that, an option to turn it off could be fine. Myself, in such games I just prefer to uncover everything by actually exploring. But then, I'm not the sort who is annoyed by a little bit of fog of war left on map or mountain edges.

 

You could have the type of fog that some games use for after you've uncovered area ... the filter affect where you can see trees and landscape through it, but not people/certain features....instead of a total black screen effect. You'd still lose some of the discovery/surprise tho, even if towns, cave entrances etc weren't initially visible (just land/trees/water features).

 

P.S. If you're more concerned about how much is completely visible even after "discovering" it (view/light radius distance of party et al), that's a bit different. You could still do something similar, with no fog of war at all but people/creatures not showing up until a certain distance, but that might feel a bit odd if they just popped into the middle of the screen. So seems like you'd still want some kind of light/other filter past the view radius "circle."

 

I know that the discovery part is a part of the fun, by I prefer discovering a new area full of colors, visual effects and eye candy stuff. With a fog of war, everything is covered in black, or in a translucent gray which in my humble opinion ruin the magic feel of a fantasy game. Okay, ruin might be a bit harsh term, but the idea of having enemy fade in while they are withing view range is a better option for people like me who prefer to ''see'' the world. 

 

About discovering, you are correct, but no fog of war doesn't mean you will not have this discovery feeling, On the contrary, you might better appreciate new areas in shining splendor instead of walking all over to uncover the black edges

[Pandamaniac]

Or just give us the spell that allows us to remove all of the black areas without removing the fog of war. BG/BG2 had Clairvoyance. Then if you can't stand the black it will go away, while those of us who like it (to know where they haven't been) can keep it.

[Sensuki]

Or you could explore it first ... then admire it

 

They did say they are going to reward exploration in the game ...

It would be nice if their Fog of War system revealed all blacked out unpassable terrain when you move to the position closest to it, so that once you've explored the whole area, the whole area is now visible.