Americans renouncing citizenship to become British over taxes

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

I know one too. I just saw him in the mirror when I was shaving.

Why do you not think highly of Rand? I'm genuinely curious.

 

 

First off, yes JFSOCC she was an athiest. That does not matter. Disliking someone because their religion or politics are different from yours makes no sense to me. It's like disliking someone because they cheer for a different sports team than you (unless they are Yankees fans, then it's ok ).

 

Now to KP's point my problem is not so much with Rand as with Objectivisim. A purely objectivist society would literally eat itself. There has to be something of a social safety net. There has to be some limitations on capitalisim. I am a card carrying libertarain and I do firmly believe that minimizing government is necassary to maximize freedom. But cutting it back to nothing at all does anything but. A truely fair market is impossible to achive in a complete laissez faire economic system. There has to be ground rules and that requires a government to intervene and rein it in to a point. But it should be a silk leash, not the heavy iron chains we see today.

 

Now my problem with the world today is that we have left that far behind. We are no longer concerned with ensuring equal opportunity so much as forcing equal outcome. The ulitmate result of this IS a loss of liberty. And the saddest part is people are voting their freedom away in every election cycle.

 

 

Ahh, I think I understand. Your problem is with the philosophy itself, because it heavily encourages selfishness(not just in government action, but also in personal life) and discourages caring about others. Is that about right? Edited March 9, 2013 by KaineParker

[Meshugger]

Totally related:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9buEI8SgwU

Edited March 9, 2013 by Meshugger

[Walsingham]

I've just realised that 'we' don't cope very well with nuanced views. I'd say - forgive the impertinence - that Guard Dog likes people, and is good to good people. But is wary of extending that principle 'too far'. Looking after everyon, irrespective isn't the idea.

 

I've got to say that I don't have any issue with this, this afternoon. I mean it reflects on my point above, doesn't it? If you can see the person you're helping then you can tell pretty well if you're making things worse or better. It's the control problem I mentioned. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

She was an atheist.

 

 

It doesn't work if everyone games the system, like in the US.

what a cynical view.

 

Here's one example : http://news.investors.com/business/042012-608418-ssdi-disability-rolls-skyrocket-under-obama.htm?p=full

 

Another would be families living for generations on the government dole, there are also constant reports of massive fraud in the foodstamp program. May be you don't see that so much in the Netherlands.

 

That's a large amount, tell me, has getting disabilities become easier in recent times, or is this rise purely from people who can't get unemployment welfare anymore because their six months are up? (IE fix one and you may fix the other)

Actually unemployment benefits right now are extended to almost two years because of the recession. And of course lots of people just stay on unemployment until the benefits run out. As far as disability, I think it's just a function of people having figured out there's a gravy train to ride, and probably the ethics aren't as strong as they used to be. Doesn't help that I'm constantly seeing commercials of lawyers advertising how they can get you disability benefits.

 

 

Ahh, I think I understand. Your problem is with the philosophy itself, because it heavily encourages selfishness(not just in government action, but also in personal life) and discourages caring about others. Is that about right?

The way I read that explained is that you can still care for others, but out of your own feelings, like because you love someone or because you feel good about helping others. Which in reality is what happens anyway. I'll admit though I don't know much about Objectivism.

[Guard Dog]

I forget who said this but it is pretty right on "Communisim cannot work because we are people, not ants. Objectivisim cannot work because we are people, not bears."

[Orogun01]

I always found Rand to be a heavily biased philosopher, so much as to say that she could give Plato a run for his money on that aspect.
The experiences she had in Russia made her adopt this distorted, romantic view of capitalism and I disliked her views on ethics which felt that was just there for the sake of completion.

All in all, not a big fan.

[Guard Dog]

Capitalisim is the worst economic system there is...except for all the others.

[Amentep]

 

 

You should become Russians. 13%. Beat that with a stick.

 

To think this blimp almost became Belgian.

Personally I think his behavior is disgraceful and unpatriotic, I hope France prevents him ever returning to the country if he leaves, as from what I understand he still lives n France. Or ensures he cannot get French citizenship again

 

He was living in Belgium prior to Putin giving him Russian citizenship.

[Amentep]

Capitalisim is the worst economic system there is...except for all the others.

 

IMO, the ultimate problem with any economic (and political) system is always that it ultimately boils down to being based on people. And the wants and desires of individuals whose own personal motivation and interests run counter to each other.  I think the big question has always been which system is the least bad instead of which is the best.

[HoonDing]

This whole cafuffle is quite ironic in the end, when one considers the United States was born from discontent over British taxes.

 

[JFSOCC]

Capitalism works, but you need rules to play by. Complete deregulation is closer to mercantilism than capitalism.(like Monopoly). One core tenet of capitalism is competition, so there must be rules ensuring fair competition.

[Walsingham]

This whole cafuffle is quite ironic in the end, when one considers the United States was born from discontent over British taxes.

 

 

A tax on tea, I might add. I notice that almost no bugger drinks tea any more. Good call, Bostonians. Good call.

[BruceVC]

 

This whole cafuffle is quite ironic in the end, when one considers the United States was born from discontent over British taxes.

 

 

A tax on tea, I might add. I notice that almost no bugger drinks tea any more. Good call, Bostonians. Good call.

 

Tea is extremely popular in South Africa and I prefer it to coffee on any day

[Guard Dog]

This whole cafuffle is quite ironic in the end, when one considers the United States was born from discontent over British taxes.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found the irony in this!

[Guard Dog]

Capitalism works, but you need rules to play by. Complete deregulation is closer to mercantilism than capitalism.(like Monopoly). One core tenet of capitalism is competition, so there must be rules ensuring fair competition.

See, we DO agree on something!

 

Now, as to how much regulation there should be....