SW: The Old Republic Part 5

[Raithe]

I have to say, The HK quest line is very.. awkardly split to me. You have some really well written and atmospheric missions in there, and then that god-awful planet searching buried in between..

[Spider]

Yeah, these quests are fairly similar. The actual story quests are great, at least if you like more puzzle-y type quests. Then there's a bunch of filler in the middle that's extremely dull.

[Hassat Hunter]

 

I really hate "heroics". Too many Area4 and Heroics4 on Balmora (sp?).

Yeah, Balmorra is riddled with them. Fortunately it gets a lot better afterwards with about 1 or 2 max per planet.

Free to play has apparently been good to SWTOR

 

I always find it interesting that this model can work.  Though I guess the subscriber base didn't change a whole lot, but the influx of F2P players has helped out (while helping populate the servers more).

And still subscribers look with the neck to f2p, seeing us as inferior and not helping the game. Funnily seeing more and more their sub is absolutely worthless. What are you paying $15 a month for? Less and less. F2P are getting overall a better package.

Everything starts costing CC, so you might aswell stick that $15 in there, get more than 500-600 and unlock everything subscribers add extra for.

 

And with escrow deduction coming in 2.1, the single-biggest con to being f2p is being taken away. So I still say, save your money, play f2p. It's not super-limited and unplayable as some like to claim, it's actually superior to being a subscriber. Which is... very very odd.

(Exception being a fervent pvp player, but it really sucks, so I don't want more than 5 a week anyway)

Interesting.  I actually don't know very much about the monetization policies of the game.  I was under the impression that subscribers got access to everything.  What exactly is the "cartel market outside their subscription" referring to?

Pretty much all new gear. Endgame gear looks HORRIBLE. Seemingly Makeb even worse than plain TOR was. Cathar. Reputation systems. Holiday event items.

Pretty much all new stuff coming with patches around every week. Only content if you give cc.

[Spider]

Not paying my subscription would still be more expensive for me than f2p, even when I don't pvp (which I don't currently).

 

So subscriptions are still more cost efficient by far if you do endgame conten regularly (as in on a weekly basis).

 

Also while 2.1 will be a cartel market focused patch, 2.2 will have no cartel market features (apart from maybe a set of packs and some items). Also the underworld gear for some classes is actually really nice. And 90% of the items in the cartel store are just as ugly as other gear anyway.

 

Edit: I just don't understand why you're playing a game you so clearly hate? I don't think I've seen you write a single positive thing about it, and you have bashed it repeatedly. Why are you still playing if it's that bad?

Edited May 9, 2013 by Spider

[alanschu]

And still subscribers look with the neck to f2p, seeing us as inferior and not helping the game.

 

I already told you this once before: there's stupid people on the internet and they're going to have elitist problems because, well, there's stupid people out there that don't have a clue.  Or you'll just get some people that act all smug such as:

 

 

 

Funnily seeing more and more their sub is absolutely worthless. What are you paying $15 a month for? Less and less. F2P are getting overall a better package.

 

....

 

Well it's certainly hard to feel sorry for you for being so picked on if you're just going to reciprocate said smugness....  The first time you complain about "woe is me, I'm a F2P guy that people look down on" is fine, but if it's a common song for you and bothers you that much, move on.  Don't put yourself in a place where you find yourself frustrated and aggravated.  No game is worth that.

Edited May 9, 2013 by alanschu

[Hassat Hunter]

So subscriptions are still more cost efficient by far if you do endgame conten regularly (as in on a weekly basis).

I do... and I still have the same opinion.

Especially last week, when operations passes went on the GTN for around 70K and I hoarded quite a sum. What else to spend credits on anyway?

Edit: I just don't understand why you're playing a game you so clearly hate? I don't think I've seen you write a single positive thing about it, and you have bashed it repeatedly. Why are you still playing if it's that bad?

I don't really hate the game that much. Is it no-where near as good as KOTOR1 and 2? Yes. Is the gameplay annoying at times. Yes. But hey, if I can tell Bio/EA where the pain-points are, maybe it can be improved upon. Sadly, the worst con is the support. Which is absolutely attrocious. Issues and issues cluthering up, no attention to people, same automatic responses to everyone, harming good classes in PvE just to suit some PvP'ers wish. Nickle-and-diming. That's the major pain point.

 

Also you would think people would be happy that I inform them how they can simply play the game F2P without loosing pretty much any functionality compared to paying $15 a month. Since it's definitely possible. Heck, even I agree Cathar should be free for subs and CC for 'f2p'... It's not really my fault the game gets more functions for f2p and less and less for subs. I don't work there or make decisions. And seeing I'm no sub it doesn't really affect me that much anyway. It's just... *interesting* to see a so called sub/f2p hybrid proving to all that it infact does not work.

[Spider]

What functions have been given to f2p that subs don't have access to without paying cash?

[Hassat Hunter]

It's not quite that as well as that more and more of the restrictions on f2p are taken away, and you get less value for your sub since everything needs to be paid for in CC. The same value for subs as for f2p (even a discount there would make subscribing make more sense).

 

Quickslots? Free more added, and cheap on GTN.

Server slots? You can easily gather all you need on the GTN.

Artifact unlock? Again, just get some of the GTN. They go as low as 250K now some days.

Credit cap? No problem, 2.1 allows you to circumvent it.

 

Really, the absolute only thing I miss as f2p compared to sub is the 20m qt compared to 2h quick travel. Is that worth $15? I say no.

[Spider]

Apart from the artifact unlock, I never really considered any of those to be a huge benefit as a subscriber. And they still cost the same, just because people buy them and put them on the GTN it doesn't devalue the subscription. Someone still has to pay for them in the first place.

 

Like I said, for me the subscription is completely worth it and the game would cost me more if I went f2p. Sure, I could probably burn through credits for a while and survive on unlocks (I have plenty of credits, so it's certainly viable), but I like the game and would like to see it stay around. So giving the developers money seems like a good way to accomplish that. And I certainly still feel I'm getting my money's worth each month.

 

But I'm glad f2p is working for you.

 

Another thing, you said you bash the game so that developers will see it's föaws and correct them. That's a fine sentiment, but do you really think developers will see what you post here? And even if they did, saying what they're doing right as well as what they're doing wrong is probably more productive anyway.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Spider

[marelooke]

Edit: I just don't understand why you're playing a game you so clearly hate? I don't think I've seen you write a single positive thing about it, and you have bashed it repeatedly. Why are you still playing if it's that bad?

I don't really hate the game that much. Is it no-where near as good as KOTOR1 and 2? Yes. Is the gameplay annoying at times. Yes. But hey, if I can tell Bio/EA where the pain-points are, maybe it can be improved upon. Sadly, the worst con is the support. Which is absolutely attrocious. Issues and issues cluthering up, no attention to people, same automatic responses to everyone, harming good classes in PvE just to suit some PvP'ers wish. Nickle-and-diming. That's the major pain point.

 

 

Welcome to mainstream MMOs. Any MMO that considers PvP anything but an afterthought is going to balance classes around PvP eventually. It's the worst when they are balanced around solo-PvP (eg. arenas...) because classes lose their identify fast that way (just look at WoW)

[Spider]

Also, I will say that as far as PvE is concerned, the expansion made an amazing job at balancing the classes. Now each class has at least one dps spec that is viable for PvE, and they're all within 5% of each other more or less. Except maybe assassins, but I think they're doing fine as well, but may be trailing a little.

 

Likewise, all healers and all tanks are completely viable options.

 

In PvE balance is worse, there are still classes that are leaps and bounds after the rest. So that they're balancing for PvP at the cost of PvE is pretty much a myth.

[Gorth]

My one and only experience with customer support so far was a first class experience. Prompt answer, quick fix (to something which out found out later was my screw up and I cheated Bioware/EA out of a few CC's)

 

Apparently buying inventory unlocks and then "claiming" it wasn't enough. It just gives you a gadget in your inventory that you need to click on. Didn't discover that little item before several days after.

 

So yeah, almost too good support

 

I made up for it by spending lots on the Cartel stuff afterwards, washing away my guilt.

 

Playing "both sides" in the lower level PvP, it seems to me (entirely allegorically of course) that some of the imperial abilities and combos are waaay more efficient than republic ones. The curves might flatten out when maxed out in levels though.

 

Only got mauled really badly in PvP once, but the level difference was a bit absurd (my team being levels 11-23, opponents 16-28). At least we could offer the local Darth an excuse for our failure... or not.

 

Finally got rid of my urge to grind when I discovered that I was consistently "over levelled" now for where I'm at in the story bits. This was actually a bit of relief, telling myself just to focus more on the story quests, but it's the kind of stuff one only works out with a bit of experience with the game. Stop chasing every critter and only kill stuff blocking your way and quest xp will see that you stay sufficiently leveled up.

 

Suggestion to QA/Feature requests: Autotarget needs some work, seriously. I've been paying attention to it now and it always selects the opponent furthest away from you, sometimes even when that guy is 180 degrees behind you. Less important for ranged fighters, but frustrating beyond description for close combat fighters, trying to hammer away at the 5 guys ganging up on you and the game picks the dude 200 meters down the hallway behind you to try and bash

[alanschu]

IIRC, tab cycles targets which can help speed target selection up.  I don't remember any huge issues with target selection, but it's been probably a year since I last played it.

[Gorth]

Yeah, I know there is a "cycle" function somewhere, but with 20+ keys to already keep track of when it gets hectic...

 

It would be nice if it was a setting thing. I.e. prioritize that I want closest enemy then distant, amongst closest pick healers over fighters etc. and the target selector would act accordingly. I know, it's just a convenience thing. The same way you can configure HUD profiles per character

[alanschu]

Well that's awfully demanding of you!!!  What do you want, a pleasant user experience!?  It's not a true RPG if you're not fighting the controls!

[Gorth]

Gorth vs. Interface... place your bets

 

No, the interface, after I got familiar with the editor is actually quite nice.

[Spider]

Iirc, there is a setting for how auto target works. Or maybe that's just for target cycling.

 

I typically turn auto target off anyway, since it tends to be a liability (causing attacks to sometimes go on targets that REALLY shouldn't be hit). Target cycling with tab is more reliable in my experience, especially with it set to display the current target and the next target in the cycle so you know where it'll end up.

 

Edit: oh and the classes on republic side and imperial side are mirrored, so abilities are practically identical. So it's no easier for imperials to set up than it is for republics. There are a couple of cases where animation plays a part, but those are not many and the impact is very minor.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Spider

[Raithe]

Well I tend to use the  mixture of Tab that just cycles between targets, and setting up a key that autotargets the closest enemy.. Between those two you can generally get things working smoothly.

[Hassat Hunter]

Another thing, you said you bash the game so that developers will see it's föaws and correct them. That's a fine sentiment, but do you really think developers will see what you post here? And even if they did, saying what they're doing right as well as what they're doing wrong is probably more productive anyway.

 

I do send mails to support with bugs and/or exploit, even if it takes about 5 tries before the auto-system realise it's one major buglist and not a suggestion or general question. Don't know what more I can do...

Finally got rid of my urge to grind when I discovered that I was consistently "over levelled" now for where I'm at in the story bits.

Kind of funny f2p helps me too here. I'm a completionist. So with sub I would majorly overlevel. However due to the f2p's XP-reducement it flows a lot better for someone who does tend to do all sidequests.

Suggestion to QA/Feature requests: Autotarget needs some work, seriously. I've been paying attention to it now and it always selects the opponent furthest away from you, sometimes even when that guy is 180 degrees behind you. Less important for ranged fighters, but frustrating beyond description for close combat fighters, trying to hammer away at the 5 guys ganging up on you and the game picks the dude 200 meters down the hallway behind you to try and bash

I feel your pain. The amount of times I died trying to get a good target in PvP and instead of being able to properly target the guy attacking me I get the random dude far away or behind me. The lag doesn't help either in hectic battles.

Well I tend to use the  mixture of Tab that just cycles between targets, and setting up a key that autotargets the closest enemy.. Between those two you can generally get things working smoothly.

Hmmm, interesting. I should look at that .

[Hassat Hunter]

Someone put a Section X account-wide unlock for 300K on the GTN (normal price ranges around 1.2M). Which makes me one happy f2p player

 

Also put 600K in my escrow for the 2.1 escrow deduction feature. Yeah, it seems good times for the f2p/pref players in TOR...

[Serrano]

Does the Hutt expansion add a lot to the game before characters hit 50? I'm considering whether to buy it now or wait a few months until I have a character that can do end game content, everything I read on the store page sounded geared towards people who'd maxed out their characters and have "been there & done that".

[NOK222]

 

Does the Hutt expansion add a lot to the game before characters hit 50?

 

No

[Hassat Hunter]

Infact, it adds NOTHING to the game pre-50. It's all for 50+

[Hurlshort]

Infact, it adds NOTHING to the game pre-50. It's all for 50+

 

Yeah this is a big problem for TOR.  Most MMO's slowly add in new lower level areas, giving players alternate ways to progress.  TOR is sort of designed to not allow that.  It is too linear.

[Humanoid]

Then again, WoW only did so in one of their four expansions, and it was largely ignored content. Ok, there were also additional starting zones for new races up to level 10-20, but it just bottlenecked the midgame even more.

 

I had initially assumed the catpeople race would be included, and indeed only be available with the expansion. Not sure of the business rationale of not doing that, but eh. Another thing they could have done without overhauling the established levelling path is add more alternate romances. Yes yes, I know the feeling about that here, but you couldn't say it wouldn't be a huge driver for sales. Plus given there's only on average about three romances per class at the moment, that means there's about 7 romances left to implement for each before even having to add new companions. There, that's the next three years worth of TOR expansions planned out.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Humanoid