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Characters from games that you HATE and don't whanna see in PE (or even be inspired)

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#121
Kjaamor

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I always find threads like this interesting, because they tend to show the full range of reactions npcs provoke, and the different experiences and expectations people have.

 

Personally, a lot of the characters accused of being 'irritating' in this thread were some of my favourite npcs, because they tended to bring the party to life. When I think of my favourite pcRPG characters, I immediately think of people like Aerie, Nalia, Anomen, Xan, Bastila, Mission, even Alistair (who I regard as one of the saving graces of an otherwise profoundly mediocre game).

 

Frankly, and I know I'm opening the floodgates for a torrent of abuse here, the only active npcs I can think of who made games unpleasant for me (which is different than disliking their personality but finding it immersive - ie, Kreia) were Morte and Nordom, who to me spent far too much of the game seemingly mocking me for playing it (passively in Nordom's case).

 

I think that if this thread shows anything, it's that it's worth generally creating npcs who fill similar roles, but offer different personalities. I'm sure, as others have said, that Josh et al can do rather better than airlift characters from other games, but as an example if the cleric resembles Aerie then make the Druid resemble HK. At least that way people can have a viable choice as to the personality of their party dependant upon their personal tastes.

 

...or, of course, don't, and I will love P:E forever for making a game where I struggled with a sub-optimal party to keep around characters I liked. Alas I think I'd be in the minority enjoying that.

 

Anyway, to get back to the core of the matter, I disliked Morte and Nordom, so flame away.



#122
Slayen

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There is really one, and only one character from a past Obsidian game which I would kill to never see the likes of every again.

 

And that is Kreia.

 

I hate her.

 

Actually no, let me rephrase that.  I LOATH her.

 

Never in a game have I had such a powerfull urge to just flat out murder a party member.  Correction, flat out murder a character before., party member or otherwise.

 

Every single other character that has thus far been mentioned has at the absolute worst produced a "::shrug:: whatever" reaction.

 

So please Obsidian, I beg of you, don't go down this road again.  Or if you do, please let me pen her in the dead book or at least ignore her entirely.

 

Oh, and on a lesser note, try and not repeat Bao-Dur either.  I didn't hate him, but he was just so... bland.  To put it bluntly, he made Kaiden and Jacob (of the ME fame) look like wild and crazy guys in comparison.



#123
Crystal

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I don’t like to group with children or “child-like” characters. That counts all kind of children, since those smarter than adults to those autistic ‘special’. Either adults who act or think as children, like Leliana in Dragon Age, or those too fragile are very annoying too. Even “child-replacer races” like hobbits, or those cute little people big-headed of anime or Japanese RPG, I really don’t like them! ha!

 

350px-Lalafell_CG.png



#124
Randomthom

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Very interesting reading through this & seeing the big variance in people's preferences. Kjaamor is spot on by saying that making a good variety of characters to cover all party roles is the best way to approach this.

Maybe have an amicable albeit idealistic monk and a cruel, gruff & uncompromising barbarian. Both fill the same role of a front-line combatant but give different personalities.

 

I just hope they don't do a NWN2: MotB on us. If you choose Evil (killing Okku) & you're not a melee character then you're basically screwed for half the game. It just had far too small a companion selection. Something NWN2 OC wasn't so guilty of (though the OC lacked any evil companions except Bishop who was so horribly disney-evil) and Jerro who was only available late in the story (and was also disappointingly weak considering all the trouble he had put you through up to that point).

 

Again, this is where we have to say tat BG2 had by far the best "supporting cast" of companions.

Ones I personally didn't like were Jaheira, Anomen, Minsc (Boo is cool though) and Cernd (though I dislike Cernd based on the fact that he's a druid and Druids suck).

 

Characters I loved in there were Aerie, Haer'dalis, Keldorn& Viconia (not all together in the same party mind you!) Mazzy was kinda cool too though borderline useless.

 

The lesson to learn, make lots & make them varied. Something for everyone... yes, even make some druids if you have to!



#125
Micamo

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I could get behind that if the project had an utterly massive number of companions to work with, but last I checked we're only getting 8 (not counting the generic faceless ones you can build yourself). That's not enough to even have one of each class. That means the team has to be economical with what they choose to do with the companions.

 

Honestly, my only request is no token evil companions. If your character concept begins with "I'm chaotic evil" then stop, burn your character sheet, and start over. There's a reason why any sane D&D table will hang a player who tries to act like this and yet somehow every CRPG seems to have to have at least one. If P:E has one then for me it will effectively only have 7 companions instead of 8, because I refuse to interact with them in any way except what's absolutely required of me.



#126
Catharsis

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I don't want any characters in the game that I don't like, and if I don't get my way I'll throw a tantrum. /sarcasm

 

It's amazing how many people in this thread expect Obsidian to cater to them personally.


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#127
Micamo

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I don't want any characters in the game that I don't like, and if I don't get my way I'll throw a tantrum. /sarcasm

 

It's amazing how many people in this thread expect Obsidian to cater to them personally.

 

Considering the subject matter, what did you honestly expect?



#128
Bos_hybrid

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If a character evokes any emotion from me it's a win for the writer. Hate, like, annoyance, interest, it makes no difference. The only thing a writer doesn't want is apathy.

 

Games/stories need characters we dislike/find annoying just as much as ones we like.



#129
Micamo

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If a character evokes any emotion from me it's a win for the writer. Hate, like, annoyance, interest, it makes no difference. The only thing a writer doesn't want is apathy.

 

Games/stories need characters we dislike/find annoying just as much as ones we like.

 

Well, I think there's a difference between liking/disliking a person and liking/disliking a character. Companions who I dislike as a person are okay, it's ones I dislike as a character that I don't want to see in the game.

 

What's the difference? When I dislike a person in the game, I'll go out of my way to disrespect them and do things they won't like, and I get satisfaction from interacting with them this way.

 

Good example: The council from Mass Effect 1. They were the completely functionally useless and whiny figureheads of a creepy racist galactic autocracy, but they worked because this was intentional on the part of the writer and they weren't set up as hypercompetent, benevolent rulers.

 

Great example: Ignus from Ps:T. He was a dangerous psychopath, but I let him follow me around anyway, as irresponsible as that ultimately turned out to be. Why? Because I legitimately felt bad for what my previous incarnation did to him, and I hoped that I would get a chance to somehow make things right.

 

But when I dislike a character in the game, my hate is directed not at the person the character is supposed to represent but at the writer who made them. My immersion in the setting is broken and I can only interact with them in this weird, metagamey way. If I like the rest of the game, then at best I'll forgive the writer and just try to ignore the problem. At worst it can cause complete narrative collapse and utterly destroy my ability to enjoy anything about the game.

 

Example: Sis from Alpha Protocol. Okay, so she's a 14-year old (maybe older, I never read her dossier) punk chick with dyed purple hair, tight jeans, and a stupid jacket, and somehow she's a dual-pistol-wielding badass who is somehow Albatross's "bodyguard." Oh, and for maximum sympathy points, she's an orphaned mute. It's not only an implausible idea but it runs completely counter to the tone of everything established about the world prior to this. Maybe her character has some sort of payoff later, but I'll never find out because Sis's introduction was the point where I decided to quit playing.


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#130
Bradr

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Imoen - whiny, immature, little-annoying-sister

Nalia - whiny, pretentious noble, vapid

 

Pretty much everyone from NWN & NWN2.  (Although I think I was so upset with the switch from infinity to whatever that mess was, that I disliked almost everything.  But I distinctly remember no attachment whatsoever with any of the characters.)



#131
kabaliero

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r u kiddin' me?
sarevok + charname + imoen = inferno + purgarotio + paradiso
an unbreakable triangle of multiverse' balance :D

but when i was, like, effin' 18
i thought that she was annoying, too
and hated the "saving imoen" quest
 

but some years later i couldn't imagine charname without his lil' sis around
and< his big bro
regardless of that they all are not rly blood-related  :)

Oh, and on the subject: i'd hate to see kids who can insult you for no reason
and get away with it by having an army of guards at their side or just a godmode on
or both

it's about goddam time for those friggin' kids in RPGs to learn some respect

maybe i alrdy posted this here somewhere some months ago )


Edited by kabaliero, 28 April 2013 - 04:48 PM.


#132
Catharsis

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I don't want any characters in the game that I don't like, and if I don't get my way I'll throw a tantrum. /sarcasm

 

It's amazing how many people in this thread expect Obsidian to cater to them personally.

 

Considering the subject matter, what did you honestly expect?

 

Maturity, restraint. I thought RPG gamers were supposed to be smarter than the casuals. Instead I see people complaining about that one character they didn't like from some game or worrying that Obsidian will suddenly decide that making crappy characters would be the best course of action.



#133
Kjaamor

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Maturity, restraint. I thought RPG gamers were supposed to be smarter than the casuals. Instead I see people complaining about that one character they didn't like from some game or worrying that Obsidian will suddenly decide that making crappy characters would be the best course of action.

 

Ah. Er...no. RPG gamers, even those from the silver and golden ages of RPGs, tend to be opinionated, extremely blinkered and subsequently rather arrogant regarding their own ideas and design skills whilst trusting no-one else, including the very designers who make the games. Any suggestion that RPers are smarter is shot down in flames and subsequently nuked as soon as you set foot in any mmorpg.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am in no way excepted from this myself.


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#134
JFSOCC

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I find it interesting that I always feel guilty dropping someone from my party, whether I like them or not. That's because they were dumped on me in the first place. If I could make a decision prior to joining my party I might never experience characters that annoy me
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#135
Sannom

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Maturity, restraint. I thought RPG gamers were supposed to be smarter than the casuals.

Even if that were true, smarter doesn't mean wiser. Casuals probably stay away from those forums where all the weirdos gather to argue about everything and nothing.

As for what kind of character I wouldn't want in a game... no idea. What I don't want is for some characters to take so much of the screen-time and plot-importance that the other characters feel under-developed.

though the OC lacked any evil companions except Bishop who was so horribly disney-evil

Bishop couldn't have been Disney-evil, he had no ambition besides staying unattached. He reminded me more of Hanharr in that respect. Kinda like how Amon felt like a deconstruction of Revan.

#136
Auxilius

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Well, gonna list what would be unliked then:

Kids or teenagers, unless there is an excellent reason for their presence.

Arrogant characters whining endlessly unless you're their sniveling lackey like Qara.

Male/female only here to sexually tease the player.

Gnomes. Seriously, screw gnomes.

 

A side note on the arrogant characters. They can be good but they have to be well-written, with a justified personality.



#137
GrumpyOldschooler

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Too hard to list really, but some of the worst ones I have seen are probably from original NWN. Like Deekin and that whatever paladin-girl who turns evil later.

 

There is also Bastila, Atton and Carth, ugh, not the worst characters ever or particularly annoying, but hopelessly generic. Rest of the bunch isn't very interesting either, aside the black-comedy relief automat HK-47. I liked Mission from KoTOR-series though, but only because it was refreshing to have attractive teenage girl as a follower in a western game. Oh and there's that certain absurdly cruel, but pretty hilarious (in very black way) thing about Mission and evil ending. Kid killing in a Star Wars game, yummy. There was also Kreia, she was very good (probably best character in the series) and interesting IMO, but felt bit of a rehashed version of Ravel. KoTOR 2 characters generally had some potential, but they felt pretty shallow, aside Kreia. I think it was because the game was rushed.

 

 

Fallout 1&2 followers deserve to be mentioned as undesirable inspiration too. Not because they are bad characters (they aren't), but they are so generic they can hardly be called characters. Prime example of how to not to do followers in an RPG game.

 

Marcus is the only one with some basic personality. I know there is Myron (insecure teenage nerd evil mastermind), but he is useless and annoying, though in a good way, so you can have fun selling him to slavers or just killing him.

 

Also anything from Skyrim, Fallout 3 (not NV) and Oblivion is just horrid. Sometimes even worse than NWN. Endless amounts of bad dialogue and childish immersion breaking nonsense stories, but I know well enougn Obsidian won't be taking any inspiration from there.

 

...and ofcourse Drizzt (yup, he is in BG, but luckily not as story character and you can kill him)

 

Luckily enough I haven't played DA2. I just can't. Tried, but even the beginning hurts.


Edited by GrumpyOldschooler, 05 May 2013 - 02:12 AM.


#138
Arsene Lupin

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There are no real archetypes I hate... but I've seen plenty of characters "done wrong," mostly in Bioware games, so here's my (short) list of things that should NOT be in ANY game EVER:

 

  • A character whose personality revolves entirely around his or her sexuality.
  • A character specifically designed to be utterly inoffensive to everyone... by way of having no personality at all.
  • A character with no discernible flaws or eccentricities.
  • A character who is shoehorned into filling out a specific role in the narrative, when doing so is antithetical to his or her personality.

 

...Honestly, I'm much rather make a list of the kinds of characters I REALLY WANT TO SEE!

 

  • A loyal comrade with a few screws loose and and a knack for saying really funny things (but not meaning to)--like Minsc.
  • A wisecracking sidekick with a proclivity for hyperbole, falsehood, and uncertain loyalties--like Morte.
  • A "stranger in a strange world" character who doesn't really fit in, and doesn't try to--like Viconia.
  • Characters whose personality you can change dramatically through your interactions--like the relationships that would result in alignment-changes in  Baldur's Gate and KOTOR.
  • Silly mascot character, like Boo and the blacksmith-imp in Throne of Bhaal.
  • A TALKING LIZARD MAN
  • A character who establishes a "fake" personality and maintains the facade for a long time, who you can't really get to know until he betrays the part--like Yoshimo.
  • A lazy-but-super-smart character, like Yang Wenli. (Major props if you know who that is).

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#139
GrumpyOldschooler

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  • A lazy-but-super-smart character, like Yang Wenli. (Major props if you know who that is).

 

This and I believe that particular massive Japanese cartoon series would be generally good place to look for inspiration on other characters too.

 

Also for some strange reason I forgot Sulik from Fallout 2. I feel really bad for it, since he was really good character, but it was probably because he is only well done follower in those two games.


Edited by GrumpyOldschooler, 05 May 2013 - 04:07 AM.


#140
Tamerlane

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There was also Kreia, she was very good (probably best character in the series) and interesting IMO, but felt bit of a rehashed version of Ravel.
 

I think that that was quite intentional, given

Spoiler

 

For what it's worth, I vaguely recall reading an interview with Chris Avellone saying that he's done all that he really wanted to do with that character.


Edited by Tamerlane, 05 May 2013 - 05:36 AM.






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