Building Structures?

[Osvir]

Faction Wars Can you become your own Faction (Suikoden-styled)? Could it be possible to "place objects" in P:E? Kind of how Warcraft 3 begun to do (see the mesh before placing etc. etc.). Would you then order craftsmen to build your fortress in your own way at whatever location marked by a "Flag" item that you placed.

 

Hire craftsmen to build it, and not entirely dependent on what class you play, but rather what type of craftsmen they are. A "Devil's Forge" might not build the "Angelic Haven of Love" to say that much.

 

I haven't gotten that far in BG2 but I understand you get a stronghold based on what class you play. So should a stronghold be based of off the world or of off the class you pick? Is the Stronghold its own location or a location in a location?

 

Faction: Could you become your own village, kingdom? Could a "texture" mesh become an overlay correspondingly to textures around it as the "stronghold" grows? Is the place in the world a good trade route?

 

Maybe a bit "Strategy game too much". Could you progress the game with a hut instead, and not being a faction at all, but more of a "mysterious savior"? Would it impact the story? Are men fighting men or are men fighting Gods? Both? Does the essence of the soul (ethereal or not) fight as well in smaller schemes and larger schemes?

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 4, 2013 by Osvir

[Rostere]

Maybe a bit "Strategy game too much". Could you progress the game with a hut instead, and not being a faction at all, but more of a "mysterious savior"? Would it impact the story? Are men fighting men or are men fighting Gods? Both? Does the essence of the soul (ethereal or not) fight as well in smaller schemes and larger schemes?

 

I like this part. I don't want the strongholds (if they are different) to be similar in size and function. BG2's strongholds certainly are not.

 

Basing them on class seems to me like a poor solution though. I'd rather have them based on how you roleplay your character - if you are the "mysterious saviour", "kung fu hobo" or something similar you would perhaps have just an ordinary hut. If you are a bloodthirsty mercenary, evil wizard, paragon of virtue or cleric-philosopher you would have different kinds of strongholds. Preferably, different strongholds would be tied to fundamentally different ways of playing - for example a specific stronghold if you are soloing, another if you are always carrying around dead cats in your inventory, and so on.

 

Granted, this would require a lot of work and since I don't think the Stronghold feature is very important I'd rather see Obsidian focus on other aspects of the game

[Risen]

Well. This is not a "bad" idea, but considering how much it apparently costs the stonghold, and how much money-time(they already dropped a tentative release date,) they have, your own kingdom wont come in this one... though if you are refering just to pre-designed (different architecture and general design) strongholds, even if it rotated just by class like in bg 1, that would be awesome. I think they should be rotated by class, aligment, and some plot decisions, and then be upgradable if they go by pre-design, and the upgrades should come in options sometimes based on what you did (you affected the economy by a destroying the mine, the price of stone is so high that you have to choose between constructing more walls or another hall). Of course, thats only a thought, and i would choose the upgrades over(which i think theyll have in anyway, nw2 style) over the pre-designed strongholds. Sorry for the bad english.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Risen

[Lephys]

I love the idea of developing a structure/community as you go, with various artisans and supportive folk in your stronghold. It immediately makes me think of Suikoden, and a handful of other old RPGs that I can't think of, haha.

[pipboy2000]

There have been many threads in the forum on how to handle your home/fortress/keep etc. and sooner or later people always started discussing things, which, in my personal opinion, belong to a strategy game rather than a cRPG.

 

Don't get my wrong, it is cool to have a castle or a house, a safe haven where you can retreat to and feel at home. And there is nothing wrong if you can buy some furniture or maybe even hire a blacksmith to repair broken equipment (if equipment can be damaged).

 

But building other buildings? Hire artisans etc.? Be your own faction? Manage a village? Build even a kingdom?

 

No! I definitely don't want that to be in PE. Those are maybe great ideas for some other game, but it has, in my eyes, nothing to do with the good old IE games and this is only the biggest problem.

[AGX-17]

Man... you're really going all over the place here. I don't even what you're trying to say. The topic was about building structures (not really the realm of a crpg,) to factions to... what, exactly? "Could a "texture" mesh become an overlay correspondingly to textures around it as the "stronghold" grows? Is the place in the world a good trade route?" Your understanding of the technical terminology is... lacking. A texture is applied to a mesh. A mesh is, well... http://en.wikipedia....ki/Polygon_mesh I mean, when you're talking about an overlay, what are you even talking about? And growth? Trade routes? What does this have to do with texturing? Are you trying to talk about mipmaps?

 

How do you want to implement building something in PRE drawn background game with no or very little 3d objects like characters and barrels?

 

But P:E is primarily 3D. The one screenshot revealed was followed by a layer-by-layer breakdown of the scene, including the wireframe geometry of the environment. They're not going to be doing circa-1998 256 color dithered sprites. Which is ignoring the semantic fact that all the scenery is pre-drawn regardless of whether or not it's 3D.

Edited January 5, 2013 by AGX-17

[Osvir]

Building structures -> Build a village -> Become a faction?

 

Trade routes and all that is just filler. "Would you require your own economy?" kind of (not in favor of it, just brainstorming). On the mesh thing, I'm talking specifically about the WC3 thing when you choose "Build" and before you place the object you see a "mesh"-ish thing. It might be when you "Shift+Click" (placing multiple objects). Anyways, you got my point and I got yours, thanks for the link

 

What I meant with the Stronghold growing, uhm, basically that the Stronghold could act as a "location" that you can place anywhere on the map or even on a map. Placing it on a map would require the stronghold to have some sort of own "ground" texture, something that mixes well with whatever else there's out there.

 

Being able to build a stronghold on a mountain, in a swamp, in hell, a proper wizard tower. Either predesignated or "build your own" wherever you want. Basically having an option to build a stronghold at other locations. Likewise, having a Stronghold, could you use it to create your own faction?

[JFSOCC]

I certainy like the idea of having certain plots (of land) that have several options as to what they can become. As your faction, or those you are allied with spread their influence, some of these will be filled in. (out of several pre-made options)

That will certainly make the world come alive more.

[Kecaw]

To be frank i dont like overcomplicating stuff, a stronghold should be keept simple something like NVN2 but with a little more turn to it (like more problems to solve OR option what type of building i would like to put in spot X) but maitaining overall a whole country and playing a game inside a game? nonono, stuff like that should go to strategie games.

[Osvir]

How about building things for a Big City? Well, not necessarily "building" it. More like funding it. Investing money in a Faction and they grow?

[Lephys]

How about building things for a Big City? Well, not necessarily "building" it. More like funding it. Investing money in a Faction and they grow?

 

Or maybe planting inordinately large seeds in an Elf/Druid city, and then they grow.

[Osvir]

Would the seeds necessarily be an expansion? Or plants from hell?

[xSigma]

Dwarf Fortress mini-game!

Yes, another mini-game.

[.Leif.]

If your PC's faction happens to embrace arbitrary fires, gargantuan ziggurats and heads on pikes, cities you 'save' might look a lot more brutal after your 'help'. If you embrace the Gods of Nature, healing and rejuvenation, battlefields and arid areas may begin to sprout small plants and sustain a larger biome. If you're an Elf or a Dwarf and your faction controls X, Y and Z cities, they might get a great deal more Dwarven steel to craft into weapons to defend themselves with (presuming they weren't Dwarven to begin with).

 

Pious players may construct alters to the pantheon/deity of their choice. The vain may create statues of themselves cast in gold adorned with precious stones with magical enchantments to ward off thieves. The sage may spread centers of learning as the magical scrolls of the chosen one (or whatever the PC is named) are disseminated to the local populations.

 

Let the player decide if they would like to create economic, military, magical or trade buildings outside of the keep's territory (and inside the territory too, of course).

[mcmanusaur]

I love this kind of thing, but I can't really see this happening in an old-school, isometric-view game.

[.Leif.]

I love this kind of thing, but I can't really see this happening in an old-school, isometric-view game.

 

How so? Perhaps we might not be able to select the exact dimensions of our house/tower/fortress or the color of every stone or floor, but I feel we'll be given a reasonable amount of control over the aesthetic choices and layouts.

[mcmanusaur]

 

I love this kind of thing, but I can't really see this happening in an old-school, isometric-view game.

 

How so? Perhaps we might not be able to select the exact dimensions of our house/tower/fortress or the color of every stone or floor, but I feel we'll be given a reasonable amount of control over the aesthetic choices and layouts.

I think that even when it comes to offering multiple preset configurations for strongholds, there may be justifiable concern that the investment of time and effort would be better suited to some other aspect of the game.

[Jobby]

Even if a great deal of customization is not possible it would be nice to see your stronghold grow and develop as you go through the game, thus linking it to the gameworld as opposed to in BG2 where there were 3 maybe 4 arbitrary quests and afterwards it just accumulated money (which you probabally didnt need by that point).

I would also like to see it tied to main quests/storys, i.e. as an actual base of operations and not a bloody holiday home.

Also given the choice between one stronghold that allows for a degree of customization and 8 class specific strongholds i'd opt for the former.

[JFSOCC]

 

 

I love this kind of thing, but I can't really see this happening in an old-school, isometric-view game.

 

How so? Perhaps we might not be able to select the exact dimensions of our house/tower/fortress or the color of every stone or floor, but I feel we'll be given a reasonable amount of control over the aesthetic choices and layouts.

I think that even when it comes to offering multiple preset configurations for strongholds, there may be justifiable concern that the investment of time and effort would be better suited to some other aspect of the game.

No, Stronghold was a stretch goal and it's owed to the backers that the developers spend time and effort trying to make it a fun and not insignificant part of the game. There's 200k specifically for this.

[rjshae]

Yes, this approach is perhaps a bit too strategy-gaming in approach. What I'd like to see is a set of "build A or B" options, rather than "build A and B". Do you turn that tower into a Wizard's study or a hippogriff roost? Is that spare wing going to be a Knight's stay or a herbalist's conservatory? Do you have sappers tunnel down to the sea caves or seal up the opening? Do you add a kennel for hunting dogs or a castle garden to host a guest druid? &c.

 

With choices you get more replay value.

[.Leif.]

Rather than some unholy mixture of the Sims and Dwarf Fortress, I'd rather just be able to chose to have a Elven Fortress for my Elf or a Dwarven Fortress for my Dwarf. I'd really appreciate it if in addition to picking the main buildings I'd like to have a decent amount of choice in architectural style. I'm just talking differences in layout and style.

 

One of my biggest turn-offs about building my own house in Skyrim was though I was able to select the three rooms connected to my main hall, I wasn't able to select what architectural style the house was built in. What if my Orc Nazgob wanted a proper Orc house? In the case of Project Eternity, I feel it wouldn't be too different.