I'm hoping PE rekindles my CRPG love...I feel fatigue

[jezz555]

To be fair, it may be that he isn't expressing boredom with crpg's in general but instead, with the crpg's themselves. True PE is inspired by these games, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to copy them exactly it's still a new IP. To use your cheese example, if he went to a cheese festival and said, "Why do we keep eating Gouda and Cheddar over and over again I want to eat a new kind of cheese", I don't think it would be so bad. If everyone here just wanted to play the same three or four games over and over again, we could, they're still there.

 

The point is though, that older cRPGs are the "new kind of cheese." Gouda and Cheddar? That's all the newer, more modern games.

 

I don't think you're not getting the analogy here. The cheeses are the Crpgs emphasis on the C as in classical, we aren't talking about dragon age or mass effect at all. Crpg's had a distinctive style and focus when compared to modern day rpgs, it wasn't just the fact that they were old that made them good, they were their own genre. He is saying he wants a new and updated crpg hence "new cheese" not the "Gouda and Cheddar" that are PS:T, BG, ect. There all still cheese's though, the newer more modern games would be like, c0cktail weiner's or something, nobodies eating weiners at this cheese festival.

Edited December 5, 2012 by jezz555

[Osvir]

I was merely asking if any of you guys felt fatigue in playing decade old games now....cuz I have.

 

Hmm, yes and no. Yes because it is old mechanics and old generally. With age comes experience and wisdom though. Which Baldur's Gate+Friends got tons of. Most importantly, us. It is an adjustment to play these old games, they require more energy than modern games do. More engagement and devotion. You don't get everything at the click of a button like you do today in older games.

 

 

No because to me it is all new to me still, I grew up with a spectrum (JetPak being my first game to play, I was 3) then moving on to Nintendo 8-Bit, PSX, Dreamcast, PS2. I was way late on the PC, and about the time I started gaming on the PC, WarCraft 3 was the way to go, mostly I've been a console gamer because I've never had a good enough PC (I finished WarCraft 3 on a computer that couldn't handle it, lagging through the entire game, but I was devoted and I was loving the story, finished WC3 and TFT with this computer).

 

Errr... to the point! I did have a point? Regardless of the entertainment, you have to please and appeal to yourself. Heck, I can feel fatigue just booting up the latest game on the market (whether it is on my PS3 or PC). So, the games aren't to blame for "Outdated", it is you (don't take that as rude, let's just be real 'kay?). If you don't know how to please or appeal to yourself, then it becomes difficult to make any progress (in life or video games).

 

This was also an issue in my multiplayer session with my friend, I was struggling to please my friend's experience and I was wondering why he couldn't just do it himself?

Willpower is also part of it. Telling yourself "I am going to enjoy this!" before even starting helps. Well, it helps for me. Okay, in the game interface, "enjoying" myself. What do I want to do in this world? Picking up an item, reading a description, getting immersed, continuing on with the journey. Somewhere down the line I forget what time it is (IRL) because I'm immersed by the game. Taking my time, patience, reading spells, figuring out what NPC's say, reading word by word and not skimming, researching even some on the internet. Putting both energy and soul into it. That pretty much sums up my Baldur's Gate experience. I had to slow down and change my mindset "This is not League of Legends" (which is pretty much the only game I'm playing nowadays).

 

You can't expect to get it (or anything for that matter) handed to you on a silver plate. Which is kind of what modern video games are doing today (comparatively to the olden days). There is also you, you probably don't play games as much as before (none of us do I'm sure) which is also a factor.

 

EDIT: I'm wondering if this is "Computer and Console" more so than P:E?

 

TL;DR: If you don't read wall of texts on this forum, does that mean you don't like to read or you don't know how to devote/engage/please yourself? (that pretty much sums up my post as well)

Edited December 5, 2012 by Osvir

[Hormalakh]

Some of you guys just can't get past it huh...

Some of you people raise your hackles immediately at any semblance of modern aspects to this PE....

Take a step back....breathe....relax. We all backed this project based on the pitch, I don't want to change the core of anything.

In fact, I'm not even asking for change at all.

 

I was merely asking if any of you guys felt fatigue in playing decade old games now....cuz I have.

And I'm hoping the updated graphics, a better UI, and the experience under obsidian's belt will stop some of the tedium.

 

If I wanted a game like skyrim or fallout, guess what, I already have them.....

Obviously I'm looking for an oldschool feeling game...just one that's not so freaking tedious.

 

For example: Get rid of the rest abuse (which the dev team themselves mentioned), make it look nice, update the UI, come up with some fresh monsters and environments...

I'm not saying turn this game into a diablo/skyrim hybrid with fast paced action and hotkey combos. nobody wants that or they wouldn't have backed this game.

 

We all want an oldschool crpg, with an engaging story, tactical combat, and an entire party to control.

 

So those of you who are saying play COD or LOL or this game isn't for me, your wrong, I know what kind of game I backed.

The last thing I want to see is them abandon the entire backbone of this project.

 

Now maybe you guys can understand what I mean, I guess I should have expected this backlash due to the wording of my OP.

 

Oh and guess what:

I play Black Ops 2, Far Cry 3, Skyrim, Fallout, Borderlands 2, Deus Ex, X Com, Dishonored, Modern Warfare 3, The Witcher 2, Dark Souls, SSX, Tiger Woods, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter all on the xbox 360. Hell, I even played Rock Band last weekend with friends.

 

Guess what else:

None of that matters, I can play those and still enjoy titles like Endless Space, Legends of Pegasus, and Civilization on the PC.

No I don't reel fatigue then. I just played Arcanum last month, loved it and want to play again in a couple of months. Finished playing BG2 a couple of months before that. Playing Fallout 1, PS:T, Might and Magic 4 and 5 now. Beat Might and Magic 3 four months prior. Haven't played BG1 in a long time, but I might pick it up after my exams. Never played ToEE, but will probably get around to it someday. Played TES:Arena but stopped half-way through.

 

So no fatigue from me. All the games you mentioned are fairly recent. People like me only have games from the 90's to fall back on. Yes, of course we're testy.

[Karkarov]

Have any of you experienced this fatigue? Can you sit through the old CRPGs still?

I'm hoping with PE the updated UI, all the experience of previous world/story building, and the fact of a new world is enough to keep me invested in the game. I just want to feel that connection again, you know?

Yes and Yes.

 

Old games are old, the thing is today many of us have played newer games that not only "look" better but have better gameplay and are easier to simply sit down and play too. You can say whatever you want about Dragon Age 2, and I agree it is a par game, but if you boil it down to pure gameplay versus gameplay I think you are insane if you try to argue any of the infinity engine games are more fun to play. They are clunkier, slower, have terrible UI's, and don't have near as many options for characters to use with the exception of casters.

 

Also I will say this. Very very few people are immune to the rose colored glasses effect. I loved the original thundercats cartoon when I was a kid. As an adult you would have to pay me to even think about watching it.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Karkarov

[Azure79]

Well, color me insane then. I'm not saying DA2 combat is bad, but it did get tedious after a while. When I played on normal all I had to do was spam AOE attacks to win most encounters, while my archer Hawke pinned down mages. On nightmare it was a bit more challenging, but mostly due to enemies spawning on top of my mages and one hit kill backstabs from enemy rogues. I don't mind that as much as some people, but I don't think it's good gameplay. The main reason I don't replay DA2 is because the thought of slogging through the combat is enough of a deterrent.

 

I replayed IWD recently and the combat was a lot more diverse and interesting. It has more options spell-wise, more options tactics wise since each party member can move independently over the entire map, so you can set up traps and ambushes, better combat encounters where enemies are placed in strategically favorable positions and you had to work around it, and enemies had the same skills as your party, so you knew a mage was a real threat and could pretty much wreak havoc on your party. All DA2 mages seemed to do was throw out an exploding ball that killed everyone that didn't move out of the way fast enough.

 

I will agree that warriors in DA2 were more fun to play due to having their own skillset, but overall IE game combat is much better than DA2.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Azure79

[JFSOCC]

I'm playing BG:EE which is my first time playing Baldurs Gate (did play the sequel) And I got to say, today I forgot to quicksave every 20 paces, so when I got in combat and lost a good size of my party, I had to go back quite a bit.

 

Fine. So I did, then I quicksaved, quicksaved again, and then got to another encounter, which I made, but which cost me some health which meant that I couldn't win the encounter I was travelling back towards. So I rested, got interrupted during rest, beat some gnolls, rested, interrupted again. skin of my teeth made it, rested again, and got interrupted again.

 

/ragequit.

 

Edit: I guess I could have loaded up on potions more, but when so much of your characters' power is based on gear, you save your money for the non-consumables.

 

These types of games involve strategy and luck, well the luck part applies in the beginning when you are low levels. But once you start winning combat, gaining levels and understanding the gameplay the sense of achievement is unparalleled compared to modern RPG. So keep it up

Oh I didn;t give up. obviously. (I paid for this game damnit! I'm finishing it!)

I went back an hour later. finished the encounter. (which was really easy because this time drizzzt helped out.)

got frustrated elsewhere, quit again.

 

combat I think is the least interesting thing in an RPG, it's not where I get my enjoyment. And having to rest every half a minute makes me glad that PE is doing it differently.

[Malekith]

Have any of you experienced this fatigue? Can you sit through the old CRPGs still?

I'm hoping with PE the updated UI, all the experience of previous world/story building, and the fact of a new world is enough to keep me invested in the game. I just want to feel that connection again, you know?

Yes and Yes.

 

Old games are old, the thing is today many of us have played newer games that not only "look" better but have better gameplay and are easier to simply sit down and play too. You can say whatever you want about Dragon Age 2, and I agree it is a par game, but if you boil it down to pure gameplay versus gameplay I think you are insane if you try to argue any of the infinity engine games are more fun to play. They are clunkier, slower, have terrible UI's, and don't have near as many options for characters to use with the exception of casters.

 

Also I will say this. Very very few people are immune to the rose colored glasses effect. I loved the original thundercats cartoon when I was a kid. As an adult you would have to pay me to even think about watching it.

Second insane person here. I won't say your opinion is stupid, after all opinions are diferent, but you need to understand that more "action" in gameplay isn't better in the minds of all people.DA2( and 1 in a lesser extent) had pretty boring combat and 98% of the combat was filler in my opinion.IE games had my favorite combat to date(not PS:T but who cares about the combat in that game )

Edited December 5, 2012 by Malekith

[Gfted1]

And having to rest every half a minute makes me glad that PE is doing it differently.

 

Because waiting for a cooldown timer is better than replenishing abilities at will?

[Tsuga C]

Can you sit through the old CRPGs still?

I'm hoping with PE the updated UI, all the experience of previous world/story building, and the fact of a new world is enough to keep me invested in the game. I just want to feel that connection again, you know?

 

Yes, and yes, I do wish to find P:E sufficiently engaging and Old School that all the cRPG-lite, action-addled Konsole Kiddies go elsewhere and leave this one to those of us for whom a videogame that closely simulates the Pen and Paper experience is the ideal. I don't need fights every other step and kewl sploshuns to keep my attention riveted to the screen if the storyline, companions, and gameplay are conceptualized and executed with care and craftmanship.

[jivex5k]

Can you sit through the old CRPGs still?

I'm hoping with PE the updated UI, all the experience of previous world/story building, and the fact of a new world is enough to keep me invested in the game. I just want to feel that connection again, you know?

 

Yes, and yes, I do wish to find P:E sufficiently engaging and Old School that all the cRPG-lite, action-addled Konsole Kiddies go elsewhere and leave this one to those of us for whom a videogame that closely simulates the Pen and Paper experience is the ideal. I don't need fights every other step and kewl sploshuns to keep my attention riveted to the screen if the storyline, companions, and gameplay are conceptualized and executed with care and craftmanship.

I doubt more fights would decrease the tedium, in fact it would increase it.

The last thing I'd want is to have to fight every 10 minutes.

I hated Dragon Age 2 for ruining what could have been a great game and turning it into a button masher.

 

I'm just saying these old games feel old basically.

I probably shouldn't have even started this thread, but I'm frustrated I can't get into these old games any more and I think a large part of it is graphics.

 

I hate, absolute HATE pixel hunting. And that's exactly what PST felt like to me. I couldn't find where the hell to go for at least 25 minutes, just walking in circles looking for some obscure staircase that looked nothing like a staircase.

Edited December 5, 2012 by jivex5k

[Tsuga C]

I hate, absolute HATE pixel hunting. And that's exactly what PST felt like to me. I couldn't find where the hell to go for at least 25 minutes, just walking in circles looking for some obscure staircase that looked nothing like a staircase.

 

Methinks this will not be a problem in P:E. I anticipate the graphics being up to snuff for a modern game even if the game structure is more reminiscent of one made 15 years ago.

[JFSOCC]

And having to rest every half a minute makes me glad that PE is doing it differently.

 

Because waiting for a cooldown timer is better than replenishing abilities at will?

With a chance of getting kicked in the teeth by randomly spawning enemies? hell yes. also, better pacing.

[Chippy]

Have any of you experienced this fatigue? Can you sit through the old CRPGs still?

I'm hoping with PE the updated UI, all the experience of previous world/story building, and the fact of a new world is enough to keep me invested in the game. I just want to feel that connection again, you know?

Yes and Yes.

 

Old games are old, the thing is today many of us have played newer games that not only "look" better but have better gameplay and are easier to simply sit down and play too. You can say whatever you want about Dragon Age 2, and I agree it is a par game, but if you boil it down to pure gameplay versus gameplay I think you are insane if you try to argue any of the infinity engine games are more fun to play. They are clunkier, slower, have terrible UI's, and don't have near as many options for characters to use with the exception of casters.

 

Also I will say this. Very very few people are immune to the rose colored glasses effect. I loved the original thundercats cartoon when I was a kid. As an adult you would have to pay me to even think about watching it.

 

I suppose this is where priorities lie for each fan. When I pressed a button in the IE games I knew exactly what would happen - in NWN2 my character would randomly attack the wrong person, in DA:O I couldn't even move the camera to drop a spell where I wanted, in DA:2 I just had to mash buttons.

Regarding the art of the original Thundercats (to me - I respect your oppinion) that's like saying Akira Kurosawa's 7 Samurai is bound to be filled with ketchup and dated acting, so surely the latest Samurai film has to be superior?. It's art - I'm looking forward to The Banner Saga by Stoic - I wonder how many gamers in the current generation would take one look at that and just see dated Disney hand drawn art?. I'm pretty curious about this; if kids these days were at in front of the jungle book, would most turn it off/their parents get bored because nobody at Disney has upgraded it to 3D?.

[Gfted1]

And having to rest every half a minute makes me glad that PE is doing it differently.

 

Because waiting for a cooldown timer is better than replenishing abilities at will?

With a chance of getting kicked in the teeth by randomly spawning enemies? hell yes. also, better pacing.

 

That will still happen when you rest to regain health. Nothing changes except now there will be two mechanics to replace what was formerly done with one.

[IndiraLightfoot]

To each her/his own! We need to respect that much more, I reckon.

Personally, this is what makes a good RPG for me:

-An engaging story, or rather an intricate web of stories, set in a reactive world. All the threads can only be unravelled through numerous playthrus with different characters

-A perfect atmosphere: music, sound effects, graphics, the sum och which is much greather than its parts - and it should be a whole that feel lived-in, culturally, religiously, economically (Perhaps where Skyrim succeeded the best, but I'd prefer it even grittier and darker)

-Plenty of RP-options. Skills and abilities should matter, a lot!

-Varied pace, sometimes BG1-slow wilderness kind-a-thing, sometimes fast and furious, at least for a CRPG (not button-mashing, but multiple strategical decisions when between a rock and a hardplace)

-Exploring should pay off big time. I'm almost anal about these things. Pixel hunter is my middle name! I simply have to poke around everywhere. I just read Lady Crimson describing the same thing - it is an obsession, but a really enjoyable one for me

-Character building - the start of a CRPG is like a fourth of the game's value for me. I love reading up on all the skills and possible stats, and then make an interesting and hopefully good PC. In a way, I can be a bit power-gamey, but above all comes the role-playing aspect.

-A generous plethora of choices for your character should be present (regarding its identity, its ethics, etc) as well as a reasonably open world to explore with tonnes of varied clever baddies (monsters, humanoids, antagonists, leviathans, whatever).

-A decent AI - but is must not be chess or suicide-inducing Dark Souls-difficulty. IE-games had more fun battles than say NWN 2, but many times NWN 2's system worked better roleplaying wise (if we disregard the weird rest-spamming)

- There should be recurring options of non-fighting solutions to encounters. The more varied these are, the better!

 

And that is all I came up with so far. No pressure at all, Obsids! :D

[Karkarov]

I will agree that warriors in DA2 were more fun to play due to having their own skillset, but overall IE game combat is much better than DA2.

Thanks for admitting my post is correct. Again, other than mages (maybe clerics, but clerics in DA are mages...) every class in DA has more options in combat, more detail to the build, and a greater range of abilities to choose from.

 

Here is an icewind dale fighter gameplay simulation... "Click fighter.... click enemy I want it to attack.... wait for enemy to die or my fighters hp to go down.... use hp potion.... enemy falls down." Rinse wash repeat.

 

If you consider that "fun" or deep I redirect you to the "rose colored glasses" portion of my post. You didn't like DA combat but not because the combat sucked. You didn't like it because you felt it was too easy and there was too much of it. To a lesser extent you didn't say it but there were too many set piece fights and not enough chance to "set up" your team. To be more specific those are not design flaws they are "execution" flaws. The overall gameplay and combat design was good, Bioware just didn't properly execute it.

 

You also clearly went AOE heavy, but nothing stops you from only using one or no mages. Unlike Baldur's gate not having a mage is actually viable. Yet another point in favor of the DA combat system.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Karkarov

[JFSOCC]

And having to rest every half a minute makes me glad that PE is doing it differently.

 

Because waiting for a cooldown timer is better than replenishing abilities at will?

With a chance of getting kicked in the teeth by randomly spawning enemies? hell yes. also, better pacing.

 

That will still happen when you rest to regain health. Nothing changes except now there will be two mechanics to replace what was formerly done with one.

that's what I'm saying. the rest mechanic is inferior to the cooldown mechanic.

Edit: but that's not really the topic of this thread.

Edited December 6, 2012 by JFSOCC