How would you like your Elves: regular or extra crispy?

[Death Machine Miyagi]

We all know the classic fantasy elf, what you might call the Tolkienesque elf. Immortal (or nearly immortal), in touch with nature, given to frolicking and laughing and living in tree houses and the like. Pointy ears and beautiful. Used to have a vast empire but are currently dying out and/or leaving the mortal world for someplace magical and wondrous that lowly humans can't go. Tend to use lots of bows, be extraordinarily adept with magical stuff and not get along with dwarves.

 

You know the drill. Most of the elves we've seen in fantasy have been variations of this, with differences to account for setting.

 

But it has seemed to dawn on a number of writers, extending back for quite some time, that the typical fantasy elf can be goddamn annoying. They get under the skin for the same reason people despise the Mary Sue: anyone or anything, even an entire race, which comes across as the writer trying to force perfectly pure pureness and goodness down your throat tends to create a gag reflex. If a person or a race is good at everything and everyone loves them except for the misinformed or the evil, who typically hate them because of jealousy, then there will be a backlash.

 

With this in mind, we have seen wild variations of Elf Classic, ranging from Dragon Age and its Jew Elves (no longer the Master Race, now living in ghettos and treated as second class citizens) to Skyrim and its Nazi Elves (pretending to be the master race, hated by everyone) and so on. The subversion of Elf Classic has become almost as prevalent as Elf Classic itself.

 

So, long post made short, how would you like your elves served in P:E? Are you looking for your typical fantasy elf? A subversion of your typical fantasy elf? What kind of elf makes you happy and what kind makes you gag?

[Sacred_Path]

Elves MUST ALWAYS be well-adapted at what they're doing. It doesn't matter what niche they're filling in the world's ecosystem, just that they're more than moderately succesful. Their entire charm and elitism depend on it.

 

Usually, they're the best archers or bowyers.

 

Often, they're most adept at wielding magic.

 

Equally as often, they're the most in tune with nature.

 

In Dark Sun (where they tried to break the mould), they were the best runners.

 

 

Dwarves we have come to love as stubborn little mother****ers who can toil endlessly, Sisyphus style, and become all the more loveable for it. Also "fallen" dwarves who have forgotten all crafts and now only bake mud cakes are common. With elves, that is pretty rare.

[jivex5k]

As long as they have pointy ears and are tall and beautiful, do whatever the hell you want with elves.

[PrimeJunta]

Have them wear pointy red hats, ride reindeer, and deliver presents at Yuletide.

[jivex5k]

Have them wear pointy red hats, ride reindeer, and deliver presents at Yuletide.

And cookies!

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Have them wear pointy red hats, ride reindeer, and deliver presents at Yuletide.

And cookies!

 

I actually really want them to do this. And I want reaction shots of people who thought they were going to play Elf Classic instead getting this:

 

[Sacred_Path]

Might as well have furry elves with barbed penises then.

[PrimeJunta]

Magic cookies. The ones baking them are High Elves, obviously.

[necromate]

I'd like something sinister... Drow?

 

Just NO hippie elves pls XD

[Keyrock]

I'd like them as piled up bloody corpses beneath my boots.

[Umberlin]

I think Shadowbane's Irekei were the only elves I've ever really liked. Still, Shadowbane had great lore in general, despite the game being somewhat of a disappointment. Its half elves were driven mad by the mixture of bloodlines, its Irekei were called Devil Men by the other races, and its base Elves, while not interesting me, were necessary to set up the Half Elves (Aelfborn) and Sand Elves (Irekei) and how they came about. In the end, what made the work, was not that they were elves, but the lore surrounding and supporting the concepts. Good writing can make up for a lot, even for unoriginal races.

 

As such, if Elves have to exist . . . how I'd like them served is in a manner that is actually intriguing, thought provoking, and fun. In a way that, even if I don't wish to play as one, I can still benefit from their presence in the game in a positive way.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

I'd like them as piled up bloody corpses beneath my boots.

 

I gotta admit, I don't like elves much. I really regretted that BG2 didn't let an evil character finish the job Irenicus started in Suldanessalar. All those elves arranged for that reward ceremony at the end, led by the Queen Elf whose stupidity was the cause of the entire plot...I would have really liked to have been presented with the option to say to her, 'Y'know what, thank you for all this and I am deeply appreciate of this dinky little amulet you gave me for saving your entire civilization, but I really have only three words to say to all of you: Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting.'

 

BAM! Room cleared and you walk out laughing.

[Tsuga C]

Give me the Tolkienesque elves, hands down. I'm a fairly staunch traditionalist and if the game is to include elves, then I expect elves that largely look, think, and behave like Tolkienesque elves. I didn't mind the Dragon Age: Origins elves, but if Obsidian is going to throw everything out the window and start from scratch, then I'd appreciate it if they called their race something else. If they don't, then it just smacks of false advertising.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Tsuga C

[Elerond]

Tolkien's elves are best that I know in fantasy literacy, but I like also elves in Halfblood Chronicles.

[rjshae]

I don't have an issue with so-called traditional, nature-loving elves in the Tolkein sense, but I would like to see them have some radically distinctive differences from humans. Mythology describes them as supernatural beings, rather than just another race of humanoids. This could be exploited to fundamentally change their nature. For example, instead of the D&D-style split into light and dark elves, they could be split into two groups based upon their gender:

 

Females are the traditional trouping elves who nurture the wilderness and wild things, but have an unfortunate reputation for stealing human babies because of their cursed relationship with the masculine elf lineage. The latter appear distinctively different than the females, having darker skin and a love of tools, civilization, and dark, deep places beneath the earth. Because of an ancient divine curse, the males and females are doomed to live apart because to do otherwise would threaten their immortality. For when the male and female elves come together to successfully mate, the pair immediately and irreversibly begin to age. It is this curse that has doomed elves to a steady decline in the face of more aggressive, fecund species.

 

Edited November 20, 2012 by rjshae

[jezz555]

I don't really care one way or the other, I more or less like all flavours of elf the same.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

In general, I would like to see races (not just elves) which amount to more than just, for example, 'pointy-eared humans who live hundreds of years and have tree houses.' If a race is actually a distinctive race, they should have some attitudes and behavior which strike the player as completely alien from how a human would behave.

 

Tolkien actually did do this pretty well; his elves seemed like they were a race apart. Others haven't done as well, and I count most D&D depictions in that category.

[Durinax]

so long as there are dark elves to counter balance traditional elves I will be happy

[Shadenuat]

They should be otherworldy. So they should either transcend humans in some aspects or be a part of world's myth. Sidhe with their Courts and such would interest me the most. Tolkien elves are great, but to make them inspire awe and be interesting both would not be easy.

[Felithvian]

If Elves and Drows hadn't wasted their time fighting over foolish and vain issues throughout the past years, they'd all know what I know now.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

so long as there are dark elves to counter balance traditional elves I will be happy

 

I won't be, at least if 'Dark' stands for 'Evil.'

 

I hope no races will be based upon being intrinsically good or bad. If there does turn out to be a 'dark' vs. 'light' divide in P:E elves, it should be about something other than their stance on kicking puppies.

[Agelastos]

I wouldn't mind some elfs (álfar) instead of elves. No pointy ears, no inability to grow facial hair.

[Durinax]

so long as there are dark elves to counter balance traditional elves I will be happy

 

I won't be, at least if 'Dark' stands for 'Evil.'

 

I hope no races will be based upon being intrinsically good or bad. If there does turn out to be a 'dark' vs. 'light' divide in P:E elves, it should be about something other than their stance on kicking puppies.

how bout just being inversely related to the standard elves? So they are not particularily attuned to nature, not aloof, expansionistic, etc

[Azarkon]

Both elves and their subversions have become cliche. They are little different from vampires in that respect. In essence, what Sacred_Path said is correct: elves have to have certain qualities that make them elvish, so just putting pointy ears on humans and calling them 'elves' is not enough. Bioware's city elves barely pass for elves; they're elvish only because the Daelish are there to remind us that they were.

 

Of the cliches developed for elves, my favorite remains the type exhibited in the Age of Wonders series. The issue with the bulk of the post-Tolkien elves, and indeed Tolkien's elves as presented in Lord of the Rings, is that we only see them in their 'fallen' state - proud to the level of arrogance, aloof, pretentious, indifferent to mortal concerns, constantly boasting about their past glories, and generally unsympathetic. It is this combination of tropes, which form the cult of D&D elvishness, that make elves loathsome and an easy target for nerd hate.

 

Yet, by concentrating on these features of 'fallen' elvishness, we forget that one of the fundamental attractions to elves is that they are, in their unfallen form, 'the perfect children.' For Tolkien, the elves of Valinor were obedient, angelic beings who never stepped outside of Eru’s Garden, and who were to be juxtaposed with the humans and the 'fallen' elves who passed to Middle Earth and mortality. Elves are supposed to be above all that: their wisdom and skill are only matched by their kindness, their compassion, and their innocence. They're the Adam and Eve that never gave in to the temptation of the serpent, the Biblical Chosen People who never strayed from God's side.

 

The passing of the elves is, in this respect, supposed to produce a catharsis in man. The loss of innocence and immortality is designed to be a metaphor for the Biblical fall of man. It’s there to remind you, the reader / player, of the distance between us and our ideals. Elves are better than man not because they’re elitist douchebags with innate magic resistance and munchkin attributes, but because they are the finest caricature of what we find valuable in our idealized conceptions of ourselves.

 

The modern D&D elf lacks the sympathetic qualities that such a conception requires. That, I think, is why elves these days are better off dead from the player’s POV. It’s also why Age of Wonders, in its hailing back to a prior style of portraying elves, is rather unique.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Azarkon

[Pshaw]

Personally I'd like for elves to become dryads when depicted in fantasy. I'd want them to not just be pointy eared humans in tuned to nature but be part of the forest itself. It also gives a reason for them to live long live as they do since trees are already fairly long lived. So I'd like to see them more plant-like in nature.

 

If that's not something the Devs feel like doing I'd love for them to be a bit 'darker' in their elfy ways like the elves in Lorwyn from MTG. Here is a brief description of them from the Wizards webpage, "If you think you know elves, you might have to reevaluate it all while you're here in Lorwyn. Although these elves live in forests and interact with nature just like other planes' elves do, their attitude and outlook are very different. Lorwyn elves are obsessed with beauty and perfection; social status and societal power are entirely determined by physical looks. These elves are not afraid to twist nature into more beautiful shapes of their choosing, and they claim complete ownership over all that is beautiful, even sentient beings. The worst thing any being can be is ugly, and elves, in their arrogance, rarely (if ever) see other races as anything but hideous. In fact, the ugly, known as eyeblights to the elves, are shunned at best, and at worst are actively hunted, enslaved, even killed with the potent toxin moonglove."

 

I also like how the lorwyn elves look: