Oversexualization of females in video games

[Moonlight Butterfly]

What's depressing is that these threads are hashed out again and again. Yet I'm still compelled to say something because of the ignorance shown by some of the presumably male posters.

 

I've been gaming since 1984, I'm female and I think I have a right to request that my sex is treated with some measure of dignity in video games. That said I'm sure Obsidian won't cave to the idiots who want pandering eye candy.

[Joukehainen]

So, I ask-if there is historical precedent for accentuating male anotomy for purpose use armor construction (some of the examples I saw even had psuedo nipples on them), why is it an automatic freak out over armor that accentuates a females anatomy?

 

Because the exaggeration on the curvature of the breasts is far greater than the exaggeration on the contours of the male pectoral muscles. Large curved spheres on the front of the armour would guide incoming swords, spears, arrows etc into the CENTER of the chest, the weakest point and the point you most want to protect on the chest, bc it's, you know, where the heart is. That is why armour always is convex in shape: to guide impacts away from the center of the chest. Boobplate would do the opposite.

 

And I don't have any evidence of Greeks using muscle-sculpt armour for realsies and not just ceremonies and posing for statues, anyway.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Joukehainen

[DocDoomII]

So, I ask-if there is historical precedent for accentuating male anotomy for purpose use armor construction (some of the examples I saw even had psuedo nipples on them), why is it an automatic freak out over armor that accentuates a females anatomy?

You know that a normal "male" plate armor does not follow the body shape like a glove, right?

It was somehow bulky and rounded, so that it helped deflect hits and arrows (I think that was still poor against projectiles).

If a plate for female warrior would fit the breast like a glove, at the first dent would become quite unconfortable, with a serious hit you could say "Hi my broken ribs/sternum!".

 

So, a boob plate would be quite stupid.

 

EDIT: Oh, and what Joukehainen said about guiding blows to the center of the pectoral area.

Edited October 22, 2012 by DocDoomII

[JWestfall]

I took my daughter to go pick out a Halloween outfit for her a short time ago. Now, for those of you who are not aware of the peculiar Halloween Americanism: it is a night of odd customs, one of which is to dress up as a fantasy character (often but not necessarily related to horror themes), mostly for the children. However, there is a certain age group (20's - 30's) where women have a contest to see who can get away with wearing the most sexualized costume, while simultaneously not crossing the line to "slutty." Men in this same age group also dress up as women - in this case, it is because they think it will edgy, unique and shocking, but to their disappointment, year after year they realize every other guy had the same idea. Not that I have nothing against any of that, being as I fondly remember being a member of that age group.

 

Anyway, getting back on track: so we were looking at costumes, and I noticed all the obligatory "sexy vampire/cat/alien/hamburger" costumes for adult women. But what really made me uncomfortable were the number of same styled costumes for children, only omitting the word "sexy" from the title printed on the packaging. I can only assume the word "sexy" was removed half for legal reasons, and half to ease whatever vestige of guilt still might remain in whatever parent would agree to purchase such an outfit for their child.

 

TLDR: Obsidian, please stop oversexualizing Halloween costumes for younger and younger generations, I find this trend very disheartening for our future society.

 

 

P.S.: Call me crazy, but I actually think Obsidian my actually have a pretty good handle on the OP, not worried myself.

[kabaliero]

What's depressing is that these threads are hashed out again and again. Yet I'm still compelled to say something because of the ignorance shown by some of the presumably male posters.

 

I've been gaming since 1984, I'm female and I think I have a right to request that my sex is treated with some measure of dignity in video games. That said I'm sure Obsidian won't cave to the idiots who want pandering eye candy.

Bless you m'lady! A warming burst of feminine dignity.

 

 

(i was 2 y.o. when you started gaming... that's creepy)

[DocDoomII]

(i was 2 y.o. when you started gaming... that's creepy)

Heh, I was born in 1984, and my parents says that I would often sit on the external floppy reader of my father's Commodore 64 to watch him play when I was still just ~1 year old.

[Streamlock]

So, I ask-if there is historical precedent for accentuating male anotomy for purpose use armor construction (some of the examples I saw even had psuedo nipples on them), why is it an automatic freak out over armor that accentuates a females anatomy?

You know that a normal "male" plate armor does not follow the body shape like a glove, right?

It was somehow bulky and rounded, so that it helped deflect hits and arrows (I think that was still poor against projectiles).

If a plate for female warrior would fit the breast like a glove, at the first dent would become quite unconfortable, with a serious hit you could say "Hi my broken ribs/sternum!".

 

So, a boob plate would be quite stupid.

 

EDIT: Oh, and what Joukehainen said about guiding blows to the center of the pectoral area.

 

Fair enough.....But what about Manboobplate???

 

[kabaliero]

double

Edited October 22, 2012 by kabaliero

[kabaliero]

Heh, I was born in 1984, and my parents says that I would often sit on the external floppy reader of my father's Commodore 64 to watch him play when I was still just ~1 year old.

 

After all, yeah, kids fascinated with computer screen are much less trouble than the druggy ones. Oops. Did i type that out loud.

 

So um, any other valuable opinions on the sexualizing thing?

• 
   
  

Edited October 22, 2012 by kabaliero

[DocDoomII]

Fair enough.....But what about Manboobplate???

 

*image snipped*

 

Wikipedia:

In classical antiquity, the muscle cuirass[1] or heroic cuirass is a type of body armor cast to fit the wearer's torso and designed to mimic an idealized human physique. It first appears in late Archaic Greece and became widespread throughout the 5th– 4th centuries BC.[2] It is commonly depicted in Greek and Roman art, where it is worn by generals, emperors, and deities during periods when soldiers used other types.

In Roman sculpture, the muscle cuirass is often highly ornamented with mythological scenes. Archaeological finds of relatively unadorned cuirasses, as well as their depiction by artists in military scenes, indicate that simpler versions were worn in combat situations. The anatomy of muscle cuirasses intended for use might be either realistic or reduced to an abstract design; the fantastically illustrated cuirasses worn by gods and emperors in Roman statues usually incorporate realistic nipples and the navel within the scene depicted.

 

Although the heavy muscle cuirass would have afforded sturdy protection, in practical terms it might have been too cumbersome, not to mention cost prohibitive, for regular use by an infantryman. The main purpose of the highly figured cuirass was to impress, and it was likely reserved for military reviews and parades.

 

 

I know, it's Wikipedia, and many people seems to disregard whatever comes from it, but seems legit enough to me.

Edited October 22, 2012 by DocDoomII

[Joukehainen]

Heh, I was born in 1984, and my parents says that I would often sit on the external floppy reader of my father's Commodore 64 to watch him play when I was still just ~1 year old.

 

After all, yeah, kids fascinated with computer screen are much less trouble than the druggy ones. Oops. Did i type that out loud.

 

So um, any other valuable opinions on the sexualizing thing?

 

Just wait until the people on the other side of the globe wake up. -.-

 

(Not a nationalism thing, just that people will have more comments, whether rational or trolling.)

Edited October 22, 2012 by Joukehainen

[kabaliero]

Fair enough.....But what about Manboobplate???

Manboobs of this type represent power, so they're like fake muscles to scare the enemy.

Samurai used to wear freaky masks for that purpose. I wonder if anyone wore female boobs to scare someone.

 

Would prolly work on some D&D contest gatherings!

*burrrn*

[Minttunator]

À la Justin Sweet.

 

I'm absolutely a fan of Justin Sweet, but I don't think you people (i.e. the Women's Group for Non-Sexualized Females in Video Games - no offence meant, I actually agree with the general gist of your movement) really want him as your example of politically correct armour. I'm just saying.

 

This is from IWD, looks pretty sexy to me:

 

 

 

Another example, sexy and impractical:

 

 

 

Boob plates galore:

 

 

[DocDoomII]

À la Justin Sweet.

 

I'm absolutely a fan of Justin Sweet, but I don't think you people (i.e. the Women's Group for Non-Sexualized Females in Video Games - no offence meant, I actually agree with the general gist of your movement) really want him as your example of politically correct armour. I'm just saying.

I don't really like his art myself, but not because of the boobage.

Anyway, if he is hired and paid to depict realistic armors I think he can do it.

[Sykid]

Hey guys, I hear 70 year old members of monastic traditions aren't all built like Bruce Lee and spend their time stripped half naked and flexing their muscles. Where do I sign up to rage?

Yes indeed, there is no sexism when games depict half naked 70 years old Bruce Lee. What was your point?

 

The character whose body is the most exposed is also the one whose physique and attire are the most unrealistic. It's all the same stuff we've been arguing about, but... it's a man. If Forton was female I guarantee you complaints would have been made just like the female Fighter (forgot name). See, nobody actually cares about realism because this isn't supposed to be a realistic game. "Realism" is only used as an intellectual crutch when it comes to images female characters that certain people don't like, in an attempt to tell gamers and developers what should and should not be in games.

 

So Sawyer said that armorers are in consensus against boobplate? That's nice. Is Obsidian going to consult armorers to validate the realism of all their art designs, or just the ones with breasts that people complain about?

 

Terry English, a famous armorsmith, said this:

 

"If you're doing historically accurate armour, you're really just copying what existed, whereas when you do the fantasy stuff, you're more artistic with it - it gives you the chance to design the outfits."

 

It's not about getting pixellated eye candy. I don't think anybody here actually cares if boobplate is in the game or not. It's about opposition to Obsidian having to vet their artistic decisions though internet feminists whose opinions neither represent the majority of gamers nor have any real relevance to what makes a good game.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Sykid

[DocDoomII]

Uh, the "Dev WhiteKnighting" faction is growing.

The developer integrity discussion got old with the debate on Mass Effect 3 ending.

[JWestfall]

Arguably related to this thread (and arguably better written than 98% of this thread): http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/179853/As_a_woman_Misconceptions_in_the_diversity_discussion.php

[Joukehainen]

I'm absolutely a fan of Justin Sweet, but I don't think you people (i.e. the Women's Group for Non-Sexualized Females in Video Games - no offence meant, I actually agree with the general gist of your movement) really want him as your example of politically correct armour. I'm just saying.

 

I am definitely not for non-sexualized women in video games. Sexuality is a part of life and I have nothing against portrayals of sex or sexiness in games. What I'm for is internal consistency in the game diegesis. Sex is what you have when the armour comes off. I think Oblivion has done a great job in the past of giving us characters like Kreia, Imoen, etc, where sexy bodies were not the primary focus of those characters. Does that mean I'm against sexiness in general or even sex scenes? Nope. Those can certainly add to a character, atmosphere, etc.

 

In regards to Justin Sweet, what I like about his art (other than the technical skill, the colour palette, and the moody atmosphere) is the range. He has women in boobplate, he has women not in boobplate.

 

(And for those who still want to draw the imo false equivalence that Conan = Taki, no, no it doesn't. Conan = that female orc image I posted, or a female bodybuilder in a bikini.)

 

 

Fair enough.....But what about Manboobplate???

 

 

Do you see how the bumps of the pectoral muscles are extremely minimal towards the center of the chest, and rather only appear towards the edges? Yeah. Like I said. Now compare with how boobplate for women is commonly depicted. See the rather glaring difference?

 

Also, that looks to be gladiator armour, in which case we should keep in mind that it's done for show and spectacle first and foremost.

 

Ladies in armour:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ladies in armour-flavoured fetish gear (mildly NSFW):

 

http://www.strangeco...tent/145896.jpg

 

http://image.shutter...an-86729239.jpg

 

http://vglounge.com/...ass-450x562.jpg

 

 

And if we're going to have women in fetish gear, we should have men in fetish gear, too (although this particular guy would have to hit the gym, the tanning salon, the body waxer, and the enlargement clinic to be in the same style):

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2012 by Joukehainen

[Joukehainen]

It's not about getting pixellated eye candy. I don't think anybody here actually cares if boobplate is in the game or not. It's about opposition to Obsidian having to vet their artistic decisions though internet feminists whose opinions neither represent the majority of gamers nor have any real relevance to what makes a good game.

 

And neither do internet sexists represent the majority of gamers, and neither do their opinions or silly boobplate make a good game.

 

If you disagree so vehemently with the design philosophies of one of the lead designers of Project Eternity, perhaps it's not for you. You might enjoy the armour designs in TERA or some Skyrim mods more.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Joukehainen

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

"If you're doing historically accurate armour, you're really just copying what existed, whereas when you do the fantasy stuff, you're more artistic with it - it gives you the chance to design the outfits."

I really love the creative, original and artistic energy added to a game by refusing to copy what existed, and instead opting to copy what people made up by slapping massive breasts onto an otherwise conventional armor design.

Edited October 23, 2012 by HungryHungryOuroboros

[Dream]

I don't recall ever claiming it was the only thing that hurt my immersion, nor did I say it would stop me from enjoying a game. But as it is, it is something I am against having in the game, and as a concept I know it makes a worse piece of armor for it. People arguing it is somehow sexit to force female characters to wear 'male" armor and/or that it is "feminist" and "meant to supress the sexiness/beasuty of the female form" irk me, because it is simply poor design of armor. Sure, for a rogue depending on wits and speed, it makes sense ot have minimal coverage, if that is his/her thing. Likewise, a fighter or ranger donning leather armor, or armored robed might opt to leave some skin. The same for magic users. But for a character portrayed as donning the heavy, full-coverage armor for safety's sake should be represented as such, in my mind.

 

To the latter case: I never noticed boob plates in BG1 or 2. Maybe I just didn't look closely enough at the small female sprites, or more likely I rarely had any female characters wearing heavy armor. Portraits are another matter entirely.

 

Boob plates are probably the least unrealistic thing in most fantasy games. If boob plates truly put even a dent in someone's "immersion" then the rest of the stuff in fantasy games should rip that immersion to shreds. The fact of the matter is that the whole "realism" argument is just a smokescreen for a bunch of white knights to hide behind.

[Furiku]

http://www.collegehu...m/picture/54286

 

King Henry VIII was a "great" man http://oxthep.../img.../img_1446ed.jpg and an interesting read:http://suite1...le-ages-a321942

Maybe I'm a little off-topic now...

Why are you always picking on old King Henry? There's various different examples:

http://i.imgur.com/1Rz32.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jkvwC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rduR3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2fOjC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QVEKR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0t9oA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pkevd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0sl5t.jpg

http://www.romainter...bronzino/01.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx....780651565_n.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pLPS2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hwmfL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hP2Z6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nmPPa.png

http://i.imgur.com/FobS7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/guJeX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BtdJC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8hV1o.jpg

(The last two might not actually be historical representations of male plate armor)

 

Also, it was the fashion between noblemen at the time, they all had to have their ****-bulge, usually in portraits together with their dogs in close proximity to it...:

http://upload.wikime...ronzino_053.jpg

http://themurkyfring...3/codpiece1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot...t_young_man.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws...f3b3267c9d8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bEZUu.jpg

 

Apparently some women at that time were also indignant at the oversexualization of men, guess some things don't change that much...:

"Hear, Hear, Messeres, in your short clothing, to show off a pair of fine stockings you wear jackets and doublets so short that you show all the buttocks and the whole bum and rear, and not only from the rear but also in front you show off big, long, and thin codpieces that point upwards. This is to be considered horribly dishonest and in truth we can no longer bear to see it.”

 

Anyway, a vote for codpieces (you can call it **** armor though so we have a pendant to boob plate), is a vote for realism!

 

In the end, will anyone really care - if the game is good - whether or not Cadegund's armor had extremely detailed boobs on it?

 

Would anyone be put out - if the game is good - if some ritzy society lady is wearing a sexy but unrevealing party frock or if the barmaid is showing a bit of cleavage or if the villagers all have sensible shoes?

Apparently they would and it would seem to be one of the most important design decisions that will either make or ruin the game, or they wouldn't open another thread about it every day.

 

Except "this type of armor" is vastly inferior, as has been stated multiple times. Additionally, the graphical differences between BG1 and PE are likely to be vast - and to be honest, no, I can't tell when characters in BG1 are wearing boobplates, and if they are, then if I noticed it would bug to me an extent - it is simply unrealistic that women would wear such vastly inferior equipment. The graphical quality of sprites is not necessarily equal amongst all Infinity Engine games. Also, enjoying a game that might have boobplates is different from not enjoying boobplates in a game I otherwise enjoy. If PE has boobplates, will I immediately demand a refund and quit playing to protest? No. Indeed, it probably wouldn't bother me much. But people positing that armor with significant, detremental defects is just as good as logically effective armor peeves me a bit - so does being considered a "white knight" for saying this, and people positing both including it is sexist in that it sexualizes women, and others claiming that removing it is sexist.

Let me help you out there, someone posted this in the last thread:

 

Baldur's Gate Trilogy confirmed for most horrible games ever.

 

Other than these, I've really hard to see where nudity would fit in any sensible way...

So apparently you've never watched Game of Thrones, which is one of the best, most realistic and most beloved "fantasy" representations altogether.

 

If a whore is dressed in revealing drags is fine to me.

So what are you trying to say, that only "whores" wear revealing clothes, or that everyone wearing revealing clothes is a whore?

 

It's funny that nobody even seems to care much about how the characters are *portrayed* e.g. with varying differences in personality, introverted,extroverted, traditional, social, individualistic, greedy etc. and how they come across when dealing with other NPCs or the PC, or at least nobody seems to comment on that.

Nah, doesn't matter... they could apparently all be INT 3 tomatoes, chief thing is no boobplates and no skin.

 

It's not like males haven't suffered heavy stereotypes placed upon them in games but you don't see me complaining.

You mean the stereotype where men are mountains of muscles, with 140 IQ, lightning reflexes and get the chick at the end? oh.. so.. suffering..

You mean the stereotype where women are femme fatales with 150 IQ, well built, attractive and desirable to everyone, with lightning reflexes taking these "mountains of muscles" out with ease and getting every man they want? oh.. so.. suffering..

Edited October 23, 2012 by Furiku

[henofthewoods]

Boobplates are stupid. Just stupid. It's like seeing comic sans on a professional website. It's not the worst thing that has ever graced design, but boy does it stick out like a sore thumb.

[kabaliero]

 

Ladies in armour:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, everything but this doesn't matter.

[Sistergoldring]

Really I'm just aiming for pants - what is it with female characters aversion to pants? Doesn't matter the season, doesn't matter the occupation, those ladies always venture forth in their undies. Really girls put some PANTS on and I can live with boob plate!