The half-races (will there be an inclusion?)

[chisled2bone]

i think half races may be out of the scope of the project at this point. I would like to see a solid foundation with the races in this first game and then in the expansion or sequal add the half races. Of course i wouldnt mind seeing them as NPC's but with the given funds i think they should just still with the races they have rather than adding to the content. Unless of course there is room in the budget for this then i say go for it.

[Ausir]

i think half races may be out of the scope of the project at this point. I would like to see a solid foundation with the races in this first game and then in the expansion or sequal add the half races. Of course i wouldnt mind seeing them as NPC's but with the given funds i think they should just still with the races they have rather than adding to the content. Unless of course there is room in the budget for this then i say go for it.

 

There are no half-races not only in this game but in the Eternity universe as such. Unless there might possibly be some very rare and infertile interspecies hybrids, with high probability of genetic defects, like with hybrids among related species in the real world.

[Morality Games]

I tend towards preferring that interbreeding be possible but not common. I don't want half-breeds to be a separate race (which would be a waste); at most, half-breeds should be a subrace option or a background trait.

 

If Josh Sawyer did confirm that interbreeding is impossible in PE, then I'd suppose that romances between the races would be exceedingly rare... So no companion romances!

 

But then... No worries about your elven mistress getting pregnant.

 

 

The term "half-elf" goes back to Tolkien's Elrond (and others).

 

I don't think Tolkein (despite the half-elf epithet) had hybrids - didn't offspring of multiple races choose which race to become? Elrond chose elven/immortality, while Elros chose humanity and was mortal (albeit very long lived).

 

That aspect of the lore is vague. Other part elves seem to exist (such as the Prince of Dol Amroth). By default it seems as though offspring between elves and humans share the Doom of Men.

 

That being said, Tolkien did occasionally stress that part elves and part Maiar inherited some of the nature of their parents.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Morality Games

[Sensuki]

Cool. Nice to see something different for a change.

 

Some interesting mature themes could come out of this

[Ausir]

By default it seems as though offspring between elves and humans share the Doom of Men.

 

Indeed, although they do inherit some elven characteristics, such as longer lifespan than regular humans.

[Justinian]

for elves humans are like Drosophila melanogaster due to very short life (in their scale).

 

I would hope elves don't see humans as that insignificant...

[Shades]

Well that's... Very disappointing.

 

Half-elves are my favourite 'race' to play (don't like everything about elves, don't like everything about humans, how about a half-elf!), and I hated that Dragon Age didn't bother including half-elves and even came up with that stupid explanation of them all turning out as humans. I was kind of hoping that PE would finally let me play a half-elf again, especially with the D&D inspiration. Thought they might be one of the subraces to choose from (Elf>Half-elf would create a character using the elf model, Human>Half-elf would create a character using the human model, saves creating different models and means it can be applied to a number of part races)... But oh well.

 

I even would have been happy with having half-races being rare and sterile when they did survive as half-breed animals tend to be.

 

Eh... Guess I'll have to pick one of the other races.

[JOG]

The problem with half-breeds is that sooner or later there will be only half-breeds, and more or less pointy ears would be just a trait like color of hair or skin.

 

The fantasy standard is that humans can interbreed with elves, orcs and ogres, but those other races can't interbreed among themselves. Half orcs and ogres are usually considered the product of rape, while petite elven women are of course always attracted to big hairy humans.

 

When the half-breeds are sterile, the question is where all those inter-species couples can be found, Arcanum added a nice twist to that question.

 

When the half-breeds are not sterile they should be considered an independent race, so humans actually could be half-elves - an elf / orc halfbreed.

[chisled2bone]

well i guess since it has been already answered that there will be no half races that makes things interesting as far as maybe some mature content is concerned (not referring to sex here) but if you take the 60's for example when it was not ok to have an interracial couple, i wonder if any of this will appear in the game.

[nikolokolus]

I actually asked Josh Sawyer about this a while back. Interbreeding between races in Project Eternity is impossible (which actually makes them separate species in modern terms).

Ah, finally an universe where different species have incompatible DNA.

 

Thank god for that.

[nikolokolus]

well i guess since it has been already answered that there will be no half races that makes things interesting as far as maybe some mature content is concerned (not referring to sex here) but if you take the 60's for example when it was not ok to have an interracial couple, i wonder if any of this will appear in the game.

 

Maybe that comes up from being the offspring of one parent from one region and a parent of another region (same species)?

 

As for inter-species marriage, I always thought it was a little goofy.

[Pope]

I'm very glad there will be no half-races. I feel that if you do one half-race, you need to allow interbreeding all the way, which will eventually lead to some people wanting to play a half human, 1/4th elf, 1/8th dwarf, 1/16th orlan, 1/16th aumaua.

 

 

Here's one that hasn't been mentioned quite yet: can Elves be Godtouched? Or Orlan? I sure hope so. If the child of Bhaal can be an Elf-Godspawn, then so can I.

+1

 

Would be nice if the Godlike were a subrace of each of the 5 races rather than a separate one.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Pope

[chisled2bone]

well it could be present perhaps with elf and human couples... especially since procreation isnt possible, that could make it even more faux pas in the eyes of the majority of society in PE

[rjshae]

But I'm guessing this would not rule out chimera in the general sense, since these are magically created. Hence, you may still have griffons, centaurs, pegasi, and so forth. This might also permit mixed breed humanoids to be created by the gods, or perhaps even by mages or magical forces. That could make for some interesting plot lines that consider the repercussions of creating such "abominations".

Edited October 22, 2012 by rjshae

[eselle28]

I'm curious how the ceremonial marriage idea works. Does the couple in question decide not to have children, or is there an arrangement where one or both has a child with someone from their own species and then they raise it together? Or perhaps there's some form of group marriage, two elves and two humans?

[chisled2bone]

or maybe they just adopt....

[Gulliver]

well it could be present perhaps with elf and human couples... especially since procreation isnt possible, that could make it even more faux pas in the eyes of the majority of society in PE

 

It could also result in non-marital sex being widely accepted between humans and elves and frowned upon when it is only humans. Having a human companion at some point in their lives might be common for elves, since it does not endanger their conceiving an elven child later.

[Shades]

Sigh. I'm surprised that so many people seem to dislike half-breeds, but I guess I do have a habit of liking unpopular things.

 

Hm, why do people dislike them? Is it because we've seen them in a number of fantasy settings? (we've also seen elves and dwarves in lots of settings, yet we have those... ) Is it just one of those things like romances that people just find offensive? Or because they think races should be separate (in which case oh dear, the races don't seem to be very distinctively separate in terms of regions in this setting, and as mentioned there are a number of different animal hybrids in the real world if you like using real world reasoning on a fantasy game. Infertile half-breeds would be a very interesting option to explore, a shame they've just ditched the lot).

 

Seems I'll have to finally play Arcanum to play a half-breed in a game I haven't played before.

[Morality Games]

Sigh. I'm surprised that so many people seem to dislike half-breeds, but I guess I do have a habit of liking unpopular things.

 

Hm, why do people dislike them? Is it because we've seen them in a number of fantasy settings? (we've also seen elves and dwarves in lots of settings, yet we have those... ) Is it just one of those things like romances that people just find offensive? Or because they think races should be separate (in which case oh dear, the races don't seem to be very distinctively separate in terms of regions in this setting, and as mentioned there are a number of different animal hybrids in the real world if you like using real world reasoning on a fantasy game. Infertile half-breeds would be a very interesting option to explore, a shame they've just ditched the lot).

 

Seems I'll have to finally play Arcanum to play a half-breed in a game I haven't played before.

 

There is no real confirmation that half-breeds have been ditched altogether as a concept other than hearsay (no offense to Ausir). Regardless, it doesn't seem as though they will be a playable race.

 

Moreover, its not so much that people dislike them as the concept has been pushed to its limits. A world where races can't interbreed is fresher than one were outcasts between cultures exist.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Morality Games

[Brannart]

Sigh. I'm surprised that so many people seem to dislike half-breeds, but I guess I do have a habit of liking unpopular things.

 

Well I don't dislike half breeds. I just always prefer cRPGs do fewer things and do them really well. Fewer races mean your race can potentially mean more as the developers have more resources to make each race distinct. So I would prefer we not have half breeds. But that is just me, it seems like a ton of people love lots and lots of choices even if those choices do not actually impact much of anything.

[Shades]

There is no real confirmation that half-breeds have been ditched altogether as a concept other than hearsay (no offense to Ausir). Regardless, it doesn't seem as though they will be a playable race.

 

Moreover, its not so much that people dislike them as the concept has been pushed to its limits. A world where races can't interbreed is fresher than one were outcasts between cultures exist.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they have, they've mentioned a number of other things in various comments all over the place. I should have learned from other games by now to set my expectations lower.

 

Haven't a lot of concepts been pushed to their limits in fantasy though? As mentioned, elves, dwarves... Yet they're doing a different take on them. And I'm not sure that races being unable to interbreed is such a fresh thing, there are plenty of games already where you can't play as half-breeds. And PE will even have the god touched, which may be from gods interbreeding with mortals in the distant past or mortals being altered or magiked by the gods into being a little different, aren't those outcasts? If so they certainly haven't gotten rid of some of them.

 

Sigh. I'm surprised that so many people seem to dislike half-breeds, but I guess I do have a habit of liking unpopular things.

 

Well I don't dislike half breeds. I just always prefer cRPGs do fewer things and do them really well. Fewer races mean your race can potentially mean more as the developers have more resources to make each race distinct. So I would prefer we not have half breeds. But that is just me, it seems like a ton of people love lots and lots of choices even if those choices do not actually impact much of anything.

 

If we take that to its ultimate conclusion though you end up with only humans (and do I need to mention how boring that is in a game that hasn't got a set, specific character that you're playing?). As I mentioned you wouldn't even necessarily need to have different models for half-breeds, I doubt they would take up a huge amount of resources as a subrace of the existing ones.

[Brannart]

If we take that to its ultimate conclusion though you end up with only humans (and do I need to mention how boring that is in a game that hasn't got a set, specific character that you're playing?).

 

Well sure if we take it to an extreme conclusion, but that is not even relevent here since P:E already has a selection of playable races. I was saying something more like 'give us a limited choice of races but make that choice have a significant impact'.

[Nonek]

Most dynamic and vibrant campaign I ever DM'd was set on a world where only different races of humanity existed. It had fascinating cultural, philosophical and artistic differences for each emergent race and they were far more fleshed out than the usual Elven and Dwarven species. It really spurred my originality and also made me delve into other earth cultures past and present for inspiration. I had racial ability bonuses, bonus feats and preferred proficiencies that were decided by the culture the men were born and raised in. It was exhaustively rich and detailed, the differences between a Pariv nomad and an inhabitant of the Kalman free cities was far more pronounced than the usual Dwarven grumbler and Elven emo, just as the sagas of the norse and their exploits stand in clear contrast to the romance of the Three Kingdoms in our world.

 

Hopefully the Dwarves and Elves of Eternity are different species, or sub races so far removed in evolution from humanity that they can no longer breed successfully, but I wouldn't mind if it were just races and cultures of humanity rather than the usual fantasy troupe. Certainly it wouldn't limit a campaign world in any way shape or form, just as our home was not wanting for cultural richness throughout its history.

[LadyCrimson]

Sigh. I'm surprised that so many people seem to dislike half-breeds, [ ... ]

Spock.

 

...more on topic - gameplay wise, I don't dislike mixed races in crpg's. TBH, all I truly look at is the abilities and bonuses, if any, and pick whoever has what I want/prefer. In some games, choosing a mixed race gives me some of the strengths of the two separate races, with little minuses. In other games, it felt like choosing a mixed race came with too many minuses for my tastes, that didn't make up for the mixture of strengths. So it just depends.

 

In terms of story lore or culture....I tend to like it when the world (or at least parts of the world) reacts to "mixed breeds" in one way or another. Whether with favor or with prejudice...using it to reflect/start story arcs that may often be of relatable interest to us, the players. If there is no specific reaction/culture impact of them in the game, I often wonder why they're in the game in the first place, then.

[DocDoomII]

I don't dislike half breeds, it's just that independently evolved creature should rarely be compatible (at least, that's what I gathered from my high-school days). And even if they could be, the chance that the offspring can reproduce are even smaller.

Yet in almost all fantasy settings I know, various races are compatible and the offspring can procreate without problems. That should mean that, say, helves and humans are two different evolutions of one ancestral race.

For once I'd like to see a world were the sapiens species are completely separated evolutions (even though going back enough every creature originates from a single primordial creature).

 

This explanation is a mess.

 

What I wanted to say is that if humans descends from monkeys, it feels like that elves and orcs do too.

Why can't orcs have evolved from bears? And elves from cats?

 

Uh... this example is even worst...

Edited October 22, 2012 by DocDoomII