What could have been done better.

[Loranc]

A statement and not a question. Not trying to start a debate or argument, I'd simply like people's thoughts on this topic so that perchance the developers will see it and get a better idea of things that could have been better. After the excitement wore off, I started thinking to myself, there were a few things that had issues.

 

With it being in the stages of being developed, and Obsidian trying their best to get as much information out as possible, I found that there were a lot of tug/pull with their answers. One developer would say something and then a day later he would say something contradictory to what he had said before. I felt this could have been handled better, because with all the jumping around on answers it makes it very difficult to get a 'feel' for what the game will ultimately be. Keeping in mind that we'll know within the next couple months, more of what the game will be like.

 

I get the feeling that this was sort of a last ditch effort to try and save a dying genre of games, and I am thankful for the hail marry, I strongly believe that this game will be everything and more when it finally releases. Barring that in mind, I'm sure i'm not the only one with nit picks about how the Kick Starter was handled, and I'm sure a lot of us look at that 4,000,000 and think 'Damn that could have been 5 or 6 hell maybe even 7, if it had been done better.'

 

Just to give the guys/gals over at Obsidian an idea of things that you thought were done poorly, as well as things you thought that were done extremely well. This way they can read positive criticism and be more thorough with their next big project. Which had better be PE2 .

 

As a side note, something I thought that was done extremely well was the last couple of goals. The stronghold and the big big city were probably the two biggest key factors in my overly abundant donation towards the game. Without these two factors I probably would have only pledged 58 dollars (8 for the title), however with them being added in I increased 5x my donation to 288 dollars, which is a pretty significant increase based on those two stretch goals.

 

Once again I'd like to state that this isn't a thread for flaming, I'd prefer not to see any at all actually. Just your criticism on the whole process from the start to the end. Whether it was the Ustreams, Q&A's, tier incentives, stretch goals, mega dungeon, specific answers they gave, things of that nature. No griping allowed here! Only criticism please.

[Sensuki]

I think that they had the general jist of the Kickstarter campaign planned out ahead of time (which I think was Adam's job), researching other kickstarters, finding out what worked and what didn't etc.

 

I would say that their level of communication with the fanbase was very good. More updates and information were shown than what Wasteland 2 had to offer (I suppose they were a little bit further in development maybe). They seem like they already had decided they were gonna use Unity before the project started as well.

 

But yes in comparison to some of the other kickstarters it was a lot more corporate.

 

They also likely had more add-ons than any other Kickstarter hahah. Not a bad way to raise more money but I think add-ons rather than tier levels will become an increasing theme on Kickstarter. You will likely get less and less in a pledge tier and have to add on more items as more companies start to identify the trends ... could be a bad thing.

[Loranc]

I think that they had the general jist of the Kickstarter campaign planned out ahead of time (which I think was Adam's job), researching other kickstarters, finding out what worked and what didn't etc.

 

I would say that their level of communication with the fanbase was very good. More updates and information were shown than what Wasteland 2 had to offer (I suppose they were a little bit further in development maybe). They seem like they already had decided they were gonna use Unity before the project started as well.

 

But yes in comparison to some of the other kickstarters it was a lot more corporate.

 

They also likely had more add-ons than any other Kickstarter hahah. Not a bad way to raise more money but I think add-ons rather than tier levels will become an increasing theme on Kickstarter. You will likely get less and less in a pledge tier and have to add on more items as more companies start to identify the trends ... could be a bad thing.

 

That is an excellent point, I completely forgot about the 'add on' incentives to increase money. One of the biggest jumps PE had was when they added on the Wasteland 2 and PE expansion add on. The 'exclusive' tiers also brought in a lot of money, the AMD one, and the troll both were completely sold out.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Loranc

[kalniel]

I guess this comment is more about kickstarters/crowd-funding in general, but I wonder how the front-loaded/feature heavy nature is going to play out over game development and production. By that, I mean that you entice backers by pledging various features at various funding levels. That naturally leads to a temptation to push features (which perhaps leads to the inconsistency mentioned in the OP). But unlike a publisher, I wonder how we backers are going to feel if dropping a feature that was pledged is in the best interests of the game?

 

Feature cutting is part and parcel of game development (or indeed pretty much every other art form) - sometimes for time/money reasons, but often just because it doesn't work within the way the game is, and it makes for a better paced or polished etc. game if you cut (or even change) something.

[Loranc]

I guess this comment is more about kickstarters/crowd-funding in general, but I wonder how the front-loaded/feature heavy nature is going to play out over game development and production. By that, I mean that you entice backers by pledging various features at various funding levels. That naturally leads to a temptation to push features (which perhaps leads to the inconsistency mentioned in the OP). But unlike a publisher, I wonder how we backers are going to feel if dropping a feature that was pledged is in the best interests of the game?

 

Feature cutting is part and parcel of game development (or indeed pretty much every other art form) - sometimes for time/money reasons, but often just because it doesn't work within the way the game is, and it makes for a better paced or polished etc. game if you cut (or even change) something.

 

Hmm... I'm not really sure how I'd feel if Obsidian said 'Hey, look guys were really sorry but 'this' just doesn't fit into our project' whether for budget reasons or having to do with the world of PE in general. It's a very possible situation that could happen with PE or any game that is funded on Kick Starter.

[nikolokolus]

4.1+ million ... I'd say, that any critique is mostly armchair quarterbacking. Nothiing is ever perfect and there's always little things that can be done better or tweaked in the future, but I thought they did a damned good job.

[Loranc]

4.1+ million ... I'd say, that any critique is mostly armchair quarterbacking. Nothiing is ever perfect and there's always little things that can be done better or tweaked in the future, but I thought they did a damned good job.

 

I think everyone thought they did, but since it was fan funded by us I see no harm in critiquing something that we literally paid to make happen.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Loranc

[rjshae]

I thought it was done reasonably well. The fact that things changed over time is just adjustment to the market conditions. Locking yourself into a rigid, detailed plan ahead of time can leave you unable to adapt.

 

My main concern was that listening to too much mixed input from us, the contributors, can result in a incoherent mess. Yes there were good ideas presented, but too many of the loudest voices wanted features that the majority might not enjoy. But I'm sure the designers will put together a fine game experience.

[Moirnelithe]

I thought this campaign was done very well. The daily updates, flexible add-ons, the amazing amount of questions answered in the Kickstarter comments, they all helped I'm sure. I've upgraded my pledge at least five times because of that. I still never expected the total to go over 3M though, that was amazing to watch.

 

The only critique (more like worry) I had was poor Adam, he looked exhausted during those live streams. Personally I'd have sent him to bed instead of having him do those streams.

[deamon451]

I agree the KS was well done. They had a fairly solid vision of the world they wanted to create. And yes some of the game mechanics were/are still in flux but enough "world" information was put out on a regular basis to allow people to make an informed choice of whether or not to contribute. Other KS (*cough* Shaker *cough*) not so much.

[Loranc]

I agree the KS was well done. They had a fairly solid vision of the world they wanted to create. And yes some of the game mechanics were/are still in flux but enough "world" information was put out on a regular basis to allow people to make an informed choice of whether or not to contribute. Other KS (*cough* Shaker *cough*) not so much.

 

I feel so bad for Shaker at this rate they'll be lucky to hit 500,000 by the end they've been in the 200,000's for the past like 4-5 days.

[jivex5k]

I think the kickstarter did very well and have no specific cristicisms about it.

In fact, this was the first kickstarter I ever donated to...so there ya go.

I suppose the lamest part was the chat during the live streams...but that's internet chat for ya.

Whoever that guy name urine something...god man you really suck.

[SunBroSolaire]

They did better than any other game kickstarter ever, so no complaints. The only thing I really wanted more of was concept art. The companion portraits were really cool, and the mockup screenshot I think generated a huge amount of interest and funding, but it would have been nice to see some world concepts.

[Coincidence]

I thought it was done reasonably well. The fact that things changed over time is just adjustment to the market conditions. Locking yourself into a rigid, detailed plan ahead of time can leave you unable to adapt.

 

My main concern was that listening to too much mixed input from us, the contributors, can result in a incoherent mess. Yes there were good ideas presented, but too many of the loudest voices wanted features that the majority might not enjoy. But I'm sure the designers will put together a fine game experience.

 

I'm sure that Obsidian has enough experience to be able to tell the difference between ideas people want that are generally good, and ideas people want that would appeal to a minority and probably aren't worth it/aren't good. Listening to the fans and having to *obey* the fans are two different things.

[Loranc]

They did better than any other game kickstarter ever, so no complaints. The only thing I really wanted more of was concept art. The companion portraits were really cool, and the mockup screenshot I think generated a huge amount of interest and funding, but it would have been nice to see some world concepts.

 

I have the four concept arts as my current background, I also would have loved to see some more art. I'm hoping that there first big update will include a plethora of screen shots for us to gasp and drool over.

[Infinitron]

They should have provided more context when describing planned features of the game. Too many times people misunderstood and jumped to incorrect conclusions.

[Technatorium]

They should have provided more context when describing planned features of the game. Too many times people misunderstood and jumped to incorrect conclusions.

I think that was due to some miscommunication between development areas and not being together on certain ideas. Also that's why near the latter part of the campaign Obsidian tried very hard to reassure pledgers of their concerns. Although it didn't help with every one of them =\.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Technatorium

[deamon451]

They should have provided more context when describing planned features of the game. Too many times people misunderstood and jumped to incorrect conclusions.

I think that was due to some miscommunication between development areas and not being together on certain ideas. Also that's why near the latter part of the campaign Obsidian tried very hard to reassure pledgers of their concerns. Although it didn't help with every one of them =\.

 

A moment of silence for those who are no longer with us.

[agewisdom]

Just to give the guys/gals over at Obsidian an idea of things that you thought were done poorly, as well as things you thought that were done extremely well. This way they can read positive criticism and be more thorough with their next big project. Which had better be PE2 .

 

The greatest fault that I can find with Obsidian is that they didn't invest enough into the Kickstarter project upfront. Before I get flamed, let me just explain my views first. It was clear that even though Obsidian generally had a good idea of the type of game they wanted to make, they didn't really put this all into paper and trash it out upfront. In short, they didn't crystallize this into an actual demo or at the bare minimum, have 5-10 detailed screenshots.

 

Basically, the PE Kickstarter was a resounding success mainly because of the faith and goodwill generated over their previous games. I mean, look at the initial Kickstarter video. Apart from a few concept character pictures, there was basically no other information available.

 

If Obsidian had allocated more people to the project or spent an additional month on PE before launching the Kickstarter, I think the updates could have come more speedily and heighten the hype. What I feel was Obsidian trying to scramble to keep with the updates once the funding was met on Day 1. If it was managed better, I don't think 5mil would be impossible.

 

Having said that, I'm really glad the PE Kickstarter was still a resounding success.

Edited October 18, 2012 by agewisdom

[GhostofAnakin]

First off let me state this was the first Kickstarter I've followed, so I don't have a basis for comparison to how others have been done.

 

With that being said, I thought Obsidian did a really good job. The communication with the fanbase was good, even to the point where if there were some questions/concerns, they got answered or clarified in a timely fashion. The stretch goals were ones that, as a whole, the fanbase seemed to want (ie. no fluff that didn't appeal to anyone). And I thought they were pretty frequent with their updates.

 

I guess the only minor issue could have been them being a bit less vague with some of their original information, so that there wouldn't be a need to clarify later on. But in all honesty, I don't think it was much of an issue since they did end up clarify stuff in ample time for people to make an informed decision before the Kickstarter period was up.

[Hassat Hunter]

The only bad things;

 

1) Too much addons and confusion surrounding it. How many people (including myself) didn't get confused by the myriad of tiers, addons, additions etc.

2) Adam should have tried IWD2 before playing (the 30 minute trying to make it work properly)

 

That's about it. Only good stuff for the rest...

[C2B]

@sensuki

 

What in the world does *corporate* mean? Because I don't get the connection at all.

 

Because I kinda get the feeling sometimes it's just used for *competent*.

 

As for the campagin, first off one of the best (if not *the*) kickstarter campagins, which is very visible as donations NEVER dropped off significantly (after the surges) during the entire run. Secondly, there are some things to nitpick, but the ones I would are already mentioned.

Edited October 18, 2012 by C2B

[rjshae]

I feel so bad for Shaker at this rate they'll be lucky to hit 500,000 by the end they've been in the 200,000's for the past like 4-5 days.

Yes, me too. I'm sure they'd have done much better without the PE competition. But if they fail, there's no reason they can't go back to the drawing board and come up with a better design and sales pitch.

[Shiroco]

They could have (dunno if possible) altered the pitch video to incorporate additional info like the FB likes for the Dungeon. Many people just liked the kickstarter campaign and probably thought they did what was asked of them to help increase the dungeon.

A page with the information that was released would have been nice too. It was kinda hard (impossible?) to get alle the information that was released.

 

Furthermore they should have clarified the Stamina/Health system as it cause some ruckus in the community. Some people thought it would be like call of duty >.<

[C2B]

They could have (dunno if possible) altered the pitch video to incorporate additional info like the FB likes for the Dungeon. Many people just liked the kickstarter campaign and probably thought they did what was asked of them to help increase the dungeon.

 

They did alter the pitch video towards the end and included the new concept arts even.