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HangedMan

Idea: merge the stronghold and 2nd big city

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Alright, so I know this will likely meet with some gruff, but ho-hum. My idea is fairly simple. Since we can make a Stronghold, why not have it be that the second big city can be constructed? Have it be something that the player can build, and control (to some degree).

 

Feel free to discuss, berate, what-have-you.

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Huh I thought you were going to suggest the stronghold be in the city...but actuallly be a city? Wow consider my mind blown.

 

How would that work? I don't know I guess I would rather the stronghold be more varied on things like race and class.

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Well, let the stronghold be buildable and upgradeable, and leave the second city (full of new quests, npc's and interesting things) alone. I would prefer them separated, there's more to do that way.

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Please no. Not everyone cares about building a stronghold. Limiting the second city to that, would be bad.

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Having my stronghold or player house in one of the big cities would be sweet, but I wouldn't want to construct an entire city. These cities are going to be huge with tons of quests and npcs. I don't see how it would be possible to make the stronghold feel personal to my character while tying it to the entire second big city.

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I think they should stay seperate personally, so that way if you don't want to build a stronghold you still have 100% access to the second city.

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I think they should stay seperate personally, so that way if you don't want to build a stronghold you still have 100% access to the second city.

 

This.

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Wouldn't mind seeing a small village grow up around my stronghold over time, but I want old, established big cities with their own secrets and history in relation to the rest of the world.

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Please no. Not everyone cares about building a stronghold. Limiting the second city to that, would be bad.

I think they should stay seperate personally, so that way if you don't want to build a stronghold you still have 100% access to the second city.

Good points. Suppose the City is already built, and the Stronghold was, for instance, some decrepit place near to it, or even in the city itself, that nobody quite knows what to do with? And then you come along, for whatever reason, and want to build it up. Or you get awarded it for some task, what-have-you. Would that be more palatable?

 

Really, what i want, is for their to be a town around the Stronghold. So I'm trying to think of ways to get that, you know?


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Bleh....and do what with a city? The larger something is the less you get to customize it because then you're talking about several different large cities in the game with only one appearing depending on player choice. It'd be a waste of time and money. Either way I'm 99% sure it's not economically possible since as I said they'd have to spend time creating and rendering several large cities and then only have one appear.

 

A stronghold I like but not this. I rather have a house or a stronghold that I can really change and customize to my taste than a city for which customization means greatly detracting from the size and scope of the game.

Edited by Darth Trethon

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Please no. Not everyone cares about building a stronghold. Limiting the second city to that, would be bad.

I think they should stay seperate personally, so that way if you don't want to build a stronghold you still have 100% access to the second city.

Good points. Suppose the City is already built, and the Stronghold was, for instance, some decrepit place near to it, or even in the city itself, that nobody quite knows what to do with? And then you come along, for whatever reason, and want to build it up. Or you get awarded it for some task, what-have-you. Would that be more palatable?

 

Really, what i want, is for their to be a town around the Stronghold. So I'm trying to think of ways to get that, you know?

 

If the stronghold is just within the walls of the city then that would be fine for me. Build it up if you want to build it up or just leave it there if you don't. That way you can have what you want (have it be in or near the city) and what I'd want (The stronghold not interfering with doing anything in the city.)


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Really, what i want, is for their to be a town around the Stronghold. So I'm trying to think of ways to get that, you know?

There's always a town around a stronghold. Just on the same map. :D Where do you think money will come from? I doubt they have money trees there, or do they? :o


1.13 killed off Ja2.

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Please no. Not everyone cares about building a stronghold. Limiting the second city to that, would be bad.

I think they should stay seperate personally, so that way if you don't want to build a stronghold you still have 100% access to the second city.

Good points. Suppose the City is already built, and the Stronghold was, for instance, some decrepit place near to it, or even in the city itself, that nobody quite knows what to do with? And then you come along, for whatever reason, and want to build it up. Or you get awarded it for some task, what-have-you. Would that be more palatable?

 

Really, what i want, is for their to be a town around the Stronghold. So I'm trying to think of ways to get that, you know?

IMO, as long as the stronghold doesn't lock any content irrelevant to it everything is fine.

 

For example, entering a tomb beneath the city for some other quest and happen to find some info, that you can find otherwise/easier as well, that allows you to start the quest for the SH is fine. Needing to go a long way with the SH, just to be given a mcguffin at the end to unlock something for a completely irrelevant quest, isn't good.

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I'd keep them separate as well. Nothing against a village close to your stronghold which you can save from something, then improve and fortify... but a whole city? You can't build that realistically over the course of a game and if it is just some Assassins-Creed-like saving of shops or whatever, it simply won't be the same. That having been said, of course the stronghold might be connected to the city, being an old outpost of the government in power which you are sent to defend or something. Also, one might find retainers and servants in the city, being able to bring some to the stronghold etc.


"Was du nicht kennst, das, meinst du, soll nicht gelten? Du meinst, daß Phantasie nicht wirklich sei?

Aus ihr allein erwachsen künft'ge Welten: In dem, was wir erschaffen, sind wir frei."

- Michael Ende, Das Gauklermärchen

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Just have the stronghold near the city, making it a city would be too much

Edited by Ruka
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I appreciate the novelty of your idea, but please no. Personally I would rather the designers be able to set up elaborate questlines etc in an area they can define.

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I could see the idea being that you get the stronghold to control the city. You could still have access to the city but the stronghold quest line would make you governor or lord or whatever over the city.

 

Of course I would rather have class specific strongholds like BG2.


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No thanks.. I want my 2nd big city to be its own thing.. could the stronghold be the fortress of that big city? Maybe.. but only if it was first owned by someone else as part of the game.. maybe you do some quests and all that stuff and you later become the owner of the stronghold through that method...

 

Having said that, I would much prefer that my Stronghold be in a separate place to a city.. a place I can build up from the ruins of an old abandoned castle maybe? However, my idea of a stronghold isn't the same as others.. they might want a den underground.. underneath an inn somewhere... or perhaps they want to set up in the sewers under one of the cities? Stronghold doesn't have to mean an actual castle-like structure..

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As a matter of narrative integrity I don't see how you could design a mega city as though it were an upgradable Stronghold and maintain any sense of plausiblity. Cities don't just spring into being; so unless your character is nigh unto immortal there isn't a reasonable timeframe in which this kind of design decision would make sense. Unless the city was a refugee camp or something, but that would be something else entirely. As I see it, one of the benefits of having a city in the first place is the excitement of discovering a place to which you are a stranger. There needs to be a sense of stepping into something that had existence antecedent to your arrival, and which will endure after you leave. Strongholds are a somewhat opposite proposition- they are extensions of yourself. Microcosms of your own growth as it were. You don't just inhabit a stronghold - you define it. Cities are NOT defined by you. You should feel like you're just one drop is a sea of stories.

 

That said, I fully support the implication in your idea that this game should be unrighteously massive. The more (excellent) content it contains, the better. I want PE to be the cRPG to end all cRPGS. Or, rather, the cRPG to convince all the naysayers our there that this is still one of the best damn genres gaming has ever seen, for which reason they need to make more.

Edited by Ethereal
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Alright, so I know this will likely meet with some gruff, but ho-hum. My idea is fairly simple. Since we can make a Stronghold, why not have it be that the second big city can be constructed? Have it be something that the player can build, and control (to some degree).I

 

Feel free to discuss, berate, what-have-you.

 

No thank you, I want those to be separate


~Seattle Supersonic of the Obsidian Order~

 

Chris Hansen is the Savior of Seattle

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Strongholds are a somewhat opposite proposition- they are extensions of yourself. Microcosms of your own growth as it were. You don't just inhabit a stronghold - you define it. Cities are NOT defined by you. You should feel like you're just one drop is a sea of stories.

Nicely put. This is exactly why I would much prefer the stronghold and second city remain separate.

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As a matter of narrative integrity I don't see how you could design a mega city as though it were an upgradable Stronghold and maintain any sense of plausiblity. Cities don't just spring into being; so unless your character is nigh unto immortal there isn't a reasonable timeframe in which this kind of design decision would make sense. Unless the city was a refugee camp or something, but that would be something else entirely. As I see it, one of the benefits of having a city in the first place is the excitement of discovering a place to which you are a stranger. There needs to be a sense of stepping into something that had existence antecedent to your arrival, and which will endure after you leave. Strongholds are a somewhat opposite proposition- they are extensions of yourself. Microcosms of your own growth as it were. You don't just inhabit a stronghold - you define it. Cities are NOT defined by you. You should feel like you're just one drop is a sea of stories.

 

That said, I fully support the implication in your idea that this game should be unrighteously massive. The more (excellent) content it contains, the better. I want PE to be the cRPG to end all cRPGS. Or, rather, the cRPG to convince all the naysayers our there that this is still one of the best damn genres gaming has ever seen, for which reason they need to make more.

 

Yeah. In regards to the underlined bit: That's the problem I, myself, see in my own idea. I was hoping that by posting it, someone would have a brilliant idea to fix it; we have many brilliant minds on this forum, after all.

 

Having said that, I would much prefer that my Stronghold be in a separate place to a city.. a place I can build up from the ruins of an old abandoned castle maybe? However, my idea of a stronghold isn't the same as others.. they might want a den underground.. underneath an inn somewhere... or perhaps they want to set up in the sewers under one of the cities? Stronghold doesn't have to mean an actual castle-like structure..

This idea is very agreeable.


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As a matter of narrative integrity I don't see how you could design a mega city as though it were an upgradable Stronghold and maintain any sense of plausiblity.

 

Yeah. In regards to the underlined bit: That's the problem I, myself, see in my own idea. I was hoping that by posting it, someone would have a brilliant idea to fix it; we have many brilliant minds on this forum, after all.

 

 

Well if it's ideas you want, I can think of a couple (which isn't to say I like 'em):

1) The second city exists on a separate plane. It is not built, but is instead transported to this realm.

2) The second city is conquered, and you get access to its areas/resources after invading each individual section and capturing it. (This could actually be pretty cool if, for example, one section of the city contained a Mage's college and you had to work your way through the school defeating various challenges. Big challenge, big reward.)

3) The second city is run by Protoss, and they phase it in bit by bit.

4) The city is a psychic projection of all your past lives. It doesn't exist in a material sense, and all its inhabitants are you (from previous (and perhaps future?) lives). It grows via meditation (represented by quests), and since it's all in your mind it bypasses the contradictions of growing a city overnight. (What can I say, I'm a solipsist, remember?)

 

*Edited because I left off an ').' Yeah, I'm a little anal.

Edited by Ethereal

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Yeah, I like this idea a lot. The concept of an urban stronghold is a cool one, and if it affected the city around you, that would be sweet.

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