Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

[CoM_Solaufein]

Good feedback so far.

[Blarghagh]

In BG2EE, I ran into about a thousand bugs. Imprisonment bugged out and became permanent, all joinable NPCs except for the romance options no longer trigger any dialogues, the romance options trigger the same dialogues over and over, important enemies death's wouldn't register rendering quests uncompletable. When playing my old disc version, I only ever ran into the invulnerable wolfweres problem. How does that make sense?

Edited March 26, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Bartimaeus]

Clarification, TrueNeutral: Imprisonment's duration is normally permanent. Do you mean the spell "Freedom" didn't restore the Imprisoned character(s)?

 

"all joinable NPCs except for the romance options no longer trigger any dialogues"

 

Not that normally romance-able characters of the same gender as you hardly ever freaking talked, anyways...stupid BioWare NPCs...

[Monte Carlo]

I've got both Enhanced Editions. TBH I still find my modded original version superior.

[Sarex]

As soon as I heard that the art assets were lost and that they weren't touching the sprites and magic effects I was disappointed.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Sarex

[Blarghagh]

Clarification, TrueNeutral: Imprisonment's duration is normally permanent. Do you mean the spell "Freedom" didn't restore the Imprisoned character(s)?

 

"all joinable NPCs except for the romance options no longer trigger any dialogues"

 

Not that normally romance-able characters of the same gender as you hardly ever freaking talked, anyways...stupid BioWare NPCs...

 

Yes, that is what I meant. It would have been more accurate to say Freedom didn't work, I guess. It didn't work on the hidden mage in the Underdark either.

 

And yeah, they didn't talk much before. But none of the side quests and conversations ever showed up for me in BG2EE - the only conversations they had were interjections in dialogue with other characters. Nalia wouldn't get kidnapped, Anomen wouldn't get his knight test, Keldorn wouldn't go to his wife, Korgan never once pestered me to loot that tomb.

Edited March 26, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Bartimaeus]

That's pretty crappy. Was that the initial version of the game, first patch, latest patch or close to, or..? Either way, sounds pretty unacceptable, especially since those companion quests are pretty major, and not being able to restore a companion from Imprison is also somewhat drastic...particularly if you saved after the battle it happened and went wandering around for a Freedom scroll and lost saves prior to the battle thinking you could restore them.

[Nepenthe]

I think the only thing that's been patched in bg2ee is a memory leak.

 

In BG2EE, I ran into about a thousand bugs. Imprisonment bugged out and became permanent, all joinable NPCs except for the romance options no longer trigger any dialogues, the romance options trigger the same dialogues over and over, important enemies death's wouldn't register rendering quests uncompletable. When playing my old disc version, I only ever ran into the invulnerable wolfweres problem. How does that make sense?

 

It makes perfect sense, the original bg-bg2 were a coding disaster that miraculously worked. They've had to go back and rewrite major sections of the code, which due to poor documentation and mind-boggling hardcoding breaks things elsewhere.

 

Now, they really should have done a few fixing passes at the current versions before concentrating fully on Android instead of the other way around, but the Android people were yelling louder at that stage.

 

I have no doubt that both EEs will become greatly superior to the originals... but in the case of BG2EE, it's probably going to take at least six months. I find BGEE already is superior.

 

Add to Pros: Works on platforms that were previously unsupported.

[Blarghagh]

That's pretty crappy. Was that the initial version of the game, first patch, latest patch or close to, or..? Either way, sounds pretty unacceptable, especially since those companion quests are pretty major, and not being able to restore a companion from Imprison is also somewhat drastic...particularly if you saved after the battle it happened and went wandering around for a Freedom scroll and lost saves prior to the battle thinking you could restore them.

 

I haven't paid attention to the patching but it's about three weeks ago on the autopatching steam version.

[BruceVC]

That's pretty crappy. Was that the initial version of the game, first patch, latest patch or close to, or..? Either way, sounds pretty unacceptable, especially since those companion quests are pretty major, and not being able to restore a companion from Imprison is also somewhat drastic...particularly if you saved after the battle it happened and went wandering around for a Freedom scroll and lost saves prior to the battle thinking you could restore them.

 

 

That's pretty crappy. Was that the initial version of the game, first patch, latest patch or close to, or..? Either way, sounds pretty unacceptable, especially since those companion quests are pretty major, and not being able to restore a companion from Imprison is also somewhat drastic...particularly if you saved after the battle it happened and went wandering around for a Freedom scroll and lost saves prior to the battle thinking you could restore them.

 

I haven't paid attention to the patching but it's about three weeks ago on the autopatching steam version.

 

 

You boys need to learn to play a game like BG2 from a permanent death perspective. If any character dies he is gone forever, if your main character dies you start the game from the beginning. Thats how real hardcore RPG players do it !!! None of this saving and restoring BS !!!

 

[Bartimaeus]

You boys need to learn to play a game like BG2 from a permanent death perspective. If any character dies he is gone forever, if your main character dies you start the game from the beginning. Thats how real hardcore RPG players do it !!! None of this saving and restoring BS !!!

 

 

 

A game where you never have to retry (or aren't allowed to) sounds like a game where you don't have to try at all to begin with, (whether it's a result of the game naturally being easy or because you've gotten good at it), and seems rather boring. Not to mention I like playing with Sword Coast Stratagems, (AI/difficulty enhancing mod), combined with a rewarded XP reducer. There's too much XP rewarded in the game, IMO. 

 

At this point, thanks to having to play smarter due to difficulty enhancing mods and having played for years and years, it'd probably be fairly easy to do an iron run of vanilla BG(2). But since vanilla BG(2) doesn't interest me, oh well. 

 

(e): The last time I played through BG2, (a 3/4th of a year or so ago?), my party (of 4) was epic level before I made it to Chapter 3, (Chapter 3 starting after you side with either Bodhi or the Shadow Thieves). I completed all of Watcher's Keep and did most of the non-main quest sidequests before that. I gave up the run after that, of course, because my game was completely broken.  

Edited March 27, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

 

You boys need to learn to play a game like BG2 from a permanent death perspective. If any character dies he is gone forever, if your main character dies you start the game from the beginning. Thats how real hardcore RPG players do it !!! None of this saving and restoring BS !!!

 

 

 

A game where you never have to retry (or aren't allowed to) sounds like a game where you don't have to try at all to begin with, (whether it's a result of the game naturally being easy or because you've gotten good at it), and seems rather boring. Not to mention I like playing with Sword Coast Stratagems, (AI/difficulty enhancing mod), combined with a rewarded XP reducer. There's too much XP rewarded in the game, IMO.  

 

 

Mmmmm....I hate it when people use logic and truth to dispute my words

[Bartimaeus]

 

 

You boys need to learn to play a game like BG2 from a permanent death perspective. If any character dies he is gone forever, if your main character dies you start the game from the beginning. Thats how real hardcore RPG players do it !!! None of this saving and restoring BS !!!

 

 

 

A game where you never have to retry (or aren't allowed to) sounds like a game where you don't have to try at all to begin with, (whether it's a result of the game naturally being easy or because you've gotten good at it), and seems rather boring. Not to mention I like playing with Sword Coast Stratagems, (AI/difficulty enhancing mod), combined with a rewarded XP reducer. There's too much XP rewarded in the game, IMO.  

 

 

Mmmmm....I hate it when people use logic and truth to dispute my words

 

 

I try!  Although...I have to point out what I said wasn't strictly true, just generally so...but I'm sure you were aware of that. 

 

(e: a word)

Edited March 27, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

You boys need to learn to play a game like BG2 from a permanent death perspective. If any character dies he is gone forever, if your main character dies you start the game from the beginning. Thats how real hardcore RPG players do it !!! None of this saving and restoring BS !!!

 

 

 

A game where you never have to retry (or aren't allowed to) sounds like a game where you don't have to try at all to begin with, (whether it's a result of the game naturally being easy or because you've gotten good at it), and seems rather boring. Not to mention I like playing with Sword Coast Stratagems, (AI/difficulty enhancing mod), combined with a rewarded XP reducer. There's too much XP rewarded in the game, IMO.  

 

 

Mmmmm....I hate it when people use logic and truth to dispute my words

 

 

I try! Although...I have to point what I said wasn't strictly true, just generally so...but I'm sure you were aware of that.

 

 

Yeah I was

[213374U]

I find BGEE already is superior.

 

In what way? Superior implies a comparison, and if you like it better because you can play it on your tablet whereas when the original was released that platform didn't even exist yet, it's not really a comparison at all. I mean, it's great that you feel that the port is worth $15, but what have the devs done in the six (or whatever) months since BGEE was released that makes you say the EE version is superior?

 

I'm not invested either way, but the fact that mods that I consider essential (Ascension, among others) aren't compatible, and the way translations are being handled (i.e. they aren't) make me a bit reluctant to give these guys my money. Those were two things that the original had that the new version doesn't, so for me it hardly warrants the title "Enhanced". As it stands, anyway.

 

 

There's too much XP rewarded in the game, IMO. 

 

I think the XP is fine—you shouldn't be forced to complete sidequests to be able to advance the main quest without being gimped. If you do absolutely every quest available to you, including possibly killing any dragons you come across, it shouldn't be surprising that you end up being overpowered. Also, by the time you are ready to take the thieves or Bodhi up on their offer, you will be way over 20k, which is hard to justify from a roleplaying perspective. Don't get me wrong, that's the way I used to play it, too. But I wouldn't say it's a design flaw. In one of the many balance mods I used to have, the Shadow Thieves' fee was raised IIRC to 80k... and I still had plenty of money to go around and buy high level scrolls and stuff.

 

If, on the other hand, you are referring to how XP completely breaks the game if you are playing a solo Kensai/Mage, that's another story... 

[Nepenthe]

 

I find BGEE already is superior.

 

In what way? Superior implies a comparison, and if you like it better because you can play it on your tablet whereas when the original was released that platform didn't even exist yet, it's not really a comparison at all. I mean, it's great that you feel that the port is worth $15, but what have the devs done in the six (or whatever) months since BGEE was released that makes you say the EE version is superior?

 

I'm not invested either way, but the fact that mods that I consider essential (Ascension, among others) aren't compatible, and the way translations are being handled (i.e. they aren't) make me a bit reluctant to give these guys my money. Those were two things that the original had that the new version doesn't, so for me it hardly warrants the title "Enhanced". As it stands, anyway.

 

Not sure what the **** Ascension has to do with BGEE (as opposed to BG2EE)*, but activation circles/walk targets matching character main color, zoom and improved mod support via externalizations are the top three things I view as clear signs of superior execution. I also consider out-of-the-box widescreen support to be an advantage, as I do the new voicesets, but those are things that can, indeed, be achieved via mods.

 

I'm actually not playing the BGEEs on a tablet, but on my Macs, just as I did when they originally came out. Unfortunately, the publishers have either gone bust or otherwise disappeared, BG hasn't worked on any OS X mac and BG2 properly on any Intel mac...

 

 

 

*Last time I looked, one could install Ascension via the Big Picture mod and it worked just fine, though. Somebody's working on an updated ascension that adds stuff for the new companions, but I don't think that's particularly relevant for this.

 

 

 

Hey, looks like it's actually possible to disagree with somebody without including "you" in every sentence, who'da thunk it!

Edited March 27, 2014 by Nepenthe

[213374U]

^ That's why I made a paragraph break between my question to you about BGEE and my reservations about BG2EE. I'm not terribly interested in BGEE (as in, haven't been following it closely) so I was curious what your reasons for considering BGEE superior to the original were, in hopes that in time the same process will be repeated with BG2EE. Thanks for the answers, anyway.

 

*the BP version of Ascension caused errors with some of the end boss battles, IIRC. Maybe it's no longer the case, but at any rate it's not the only mod that doesn't work, just the most egregious example.

 

 

Hey, looks like it's actually possible to disagree with somebody without including "you" in every sentence, who'da thunk it!

 

This some sort of weird pet peeve of yours? Not even sure what you mean... 

Edited March 27, 2014 by 213374U

[Bartimaeus]

 

There's too much XP rewarded in the game, IMO. 

 

I think the XP is fine—you shouldn't be forced to complete sidequests to be able to advance the main quest without being gimped. If you do absolutely every quest available to you, including possibly killing any dragons you come across, it shouldn't be surprising that you end up being overpowered. Also, by the time you are ready to take the thieves or Bodhi up on their offer, you will be way over 20k, which is hard to justify from a roleplaying perspective. Don't get me wrong, that's the way I used to play it, too. But I wouldn't say it's a design flaw. In one of the many balance mods I used to have, the Shadow Thieves' fee was raised IIRC to 80k... and I still had plenty of money to go around and buy high level scrolls and stuff.

 

If, on the other hand, you are referring to how XP completely breaks the game if you are playing a solo Kensai/Mage, that's another story... 

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it was a flaw, per se, as I agree - you're absolutely right. But I've always completed pretty much everything when I go through the game, so I find that the game completely breaks (for me!) unless all XP rewarded is scaled to at least 75% of the original - though I'm actually tempted to try 50%. Sword Coast Stratagems, the mod I just mentioned earlier, has that fee increaser component you just spoke of...and an additional magic license fee increaser. The amount of money you can make in the game is also ridiculous if you do everything, as you mentioned.

[Bester]

It makes perfect sense, the original bg-bg2 were a coding disaster that miraculously worked. They've had to go back and rewrite major sections of the code, which due to poor documentation and mind-boggling hardcoding breaks things elsewhere.

 

You're really buying that crap? Every new government in history always said "the previous administration was a disaster and worked miraculously" to justify its present shortcomings. And you really bought into this centuries old excuse? Please...

 

You've never seen the code, so why are you repeating someone else's bullcrap like it's an established fact?

[BruceVC]

 

It makes perfect sense, the original bg-bg2 were a coding disaster that miraculously worked. They've had to go back and rewrite major sections of the code, which due to poor documentation and mind-boggling hardcoding breaks things elsewhere.

 

You're really buying that crap? Every new government in history always said "the previous administration was a disaster and worked miraculously" to justify its present shortcomings. And you really bought into this centuries old excuse? Please...

 

You've never seen the code, so why are you repeating someone else's bullcrap like it's an established fact?

 

 

 

I have to 100% agree with Nep on this one Bester, sorry but I have to be honest

[Volourn]

"Interesting read—a well-articulated piece in the bigger debate of whether games are art and their dependence of the (technological) circumstances surrounding their creation. Unfortunately, its basis seems to be that the author just couldn't get into BG2EE, which is, in my mind, a very weak starting proposition.

 

Doesn't really say anything of substance about BG2EE, per se."

 

Horrible read. You did good nearly blinding me from reading such nonsense.

 

 

 

"It makes perfect sense, the original bg-bg2 were a coding disaster that miraculously worked. They've had to go back and rewrite major sections of the code, which due to poor documentation and mind-boggling hardcoding breaks things elsewhere."

 

L0L Horrible lies to make these losers feel good about themselves. 'Miraclously worked' HAHAHAHAHAS!

[Bartimaeus]

 

 

It makes perfect sense, the original bg-bg2 were a coding disaster that miraculously worked. They've had to go back and rewrite major sections of the code, which due to poor documentation and mind-boggling hardcoding breaks things elsewhere.

 

You're really buying that crap? Every new government in history always said "the previous administration was a disaster and worked miraculously" to justify its present shortcomings. And you really bought into this centuries old excuse? Please...

 

You've never seen the code, so why are you repeating someone else's bullcrap like it's an established fact?

 

 

 

I have to 100% agree with Nep on this one Bester, sorry but I have to be honest

 

 

Just curious, but on what basis are you making that agreement? Both Nepenthe and Bester make, in my opinion, valid points - yet neither one is substantiated (so far) in this case, so why believe - especially "100%" - either way?

[Nepenthe]

 

It makes perfect sense, the original bg-bg2 were a coding disaster that miraculously worked. They've had to go back and rewrite major sections of the code, which due to poor documentation and mind-boggling hardcoding breaks things elsewhere.

 

 

You're really buying that crap? Every new government in history always said "the previous administration was a disaster and worked miraculously" to justify its present shortcomings. And you really bought into this centuries old excuse? Please...

 

You've never seen the code, so why are you repeating someone else's bullcrap like it's an established fact?

I find it more plausible than the alternative: they're borking fully functional systems just for the hell of it.

[Tigranes]

They're borking functional systems because they're incompetent and trying to change things just so they can show they've made a difference. THen they sell it for twice the price.

[Zoraptor]

It seems rather odd that whoever it is monkeying around with System Shock 2 and Thief on- presumably- an entirely amateur level has managed to put out something that is basically bug free (well, rocks didn't cast shadows or somesuch, for like two days) and Dark Engine is a renowned kludge while Overhaul has so many troubles with a professional team some of whom actually worked on the original titles. Modders also fixed most of the bugs left in the BGs with their extremely limited tools.

 

As such, I don't have much sympathy for the code morass excuse. I'm sure a lot of it is undocumented and I'm sure that there are short cuts taken- but if you expect clean, well organised code all the time then you've probably just finished your comp sci degree.