In-game rewards for immersion/difficulty settings?

[IndiraLightfoot]

I've seen in many topics concerns and fears about all kinds of things that break the RP of the G, as it were. It seems to be a matter of immersion for a great many people out there:

-No quest markers (exclamation and question marks like DA)

-No running back when quest is finished (no hole back to surface after boss (Skyrim), no teleporting (DIII)

-No minimap, no map at all or at least some fog of war

-No endless running available for the party (walk like in BG)

-No save spamming

 

The list is actually much longer than this. Then of course, there is a lot of people who love higher difficulty settings too, and here I'm primarily thinking of combat.

 

My take on this is that PE should accommodate the wishes of those wishing for more immersion and diffulty as much as possible. Make immersion/difficulty settings generous and flexible. But here's the big question: Should there be rewards in-game for maxing out immersion and difficulty in PE?

 

I mean, more xp, is one idea (doubt if it is a good idea, but still). Better finds of money and valuables, perhaps? And even more interestingly, small amounts of interesting content is hidden for those playing at easy peasy-levels (highly controversial, I know). My point is: A good game shall reward those who are curious and nosey, and who wants to be in for a good challenge! But the question is how, precisely?

[Piccolo]

A lot of people (like myself) who want a fairly hardcore, immersive experience also want really slow progression... so rewards like more XP, more money, etc. would completely undermine that.

 

Small amounts of hidden/exclusive content could work, as long as it's fairly superficial stuff.

[Rabain]

And while I also like a challenge from harder modes I don't think it is fair to add content that only hard modes can see. The challenge of a hard mode is that the game is harder, no one should feel compelled to play a hard mode because if they don't they miss something.

 

I'd rather see silly achievements in the game than exclude content based on difficulty.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Rabain: Dorky achievements is a good idea (Steam users will be happy, no doubt)!

 

I agree that xp- and gold-rewards sorta undermine the idea of difficulty settings, but perhaps a few special items (nothing game-breaking, just unique stuff)?

[Jojobobo]

I think this point is a bit wonky - on the one hand you want more immersion but on the other you would be instantly aware that you're receiving rewards that an average player wouldn't, thereby hampering the immersion. By giving extra rewards to players on greater difficulty it becomes a case of how best can you manipulate those rewards to improve your chances of survival which isn't a very immersive thought process. I wouldn't even want to see token items that aren't actually useful, I think it's more fun without.

 

So I don't think there should be any changes apart from maybe a nod in the dialogue at some point; players who are after this level of immersion want a "difficult" setting, not a "difficult with a helping hand" setting.

[kabaliero]

- Stamina (JA2) for the run\encumbrance. (I wish i didn't need a horse to carry all this around...)

- Money worth\hard to get. (A whole coin! Wow!) Hard to sell all the lewt (What am i sposed to do with all these swords and bug-shells?)

- Yes to Slow progress. (A +1 Dagger! Holy ***!)

- Save spam is ok though Just no saving in combat or some special areas. (You can not save at this time.)

[kenup]

Beating the game in higher difficulty, is the only reward needed IMO. Though I wouldn't mind something like the Unique sets in TW2, anything more would be locking a lot of content out of players in "normal" difficulty modes.

[Rabain]

Rabain: Dorky achievements is a good idea (Steam users will be happy, no doubt)!

 

I agree that xp- and gold-rewards sorta undermine the idea of difficulty settings, but perhaps a few special items (nothing game-breaking, just unique stuff)?

 

I wouldn't care about XP and gold rewards, you can get both of those in a normal game with extra effort.

 

Exactly what I DON'T want to see in hard modes is unique stuff no one else has access to, that is the type of pandering to elitism that I hate to see in any game.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Rabain: Although I agree with you, I think you will see that most, if not all, CPRGs since time memorial have worked in the way you rather oddly call "pandering to elitism". Basically: Even discounting any immersion/difficulty setting, players who really immerse themselves in a game, players who read more dialogue or happen to solve a puzzle or bring down a tough encounter, have been rewarded in some way or the other. I would say, this is one fundamental part of any CRPG. I would never call this "elitism". I reckon "item envy" and such is rather childish, it is very stuff that makes up games like MMOs and Diablo. In short, rewarding players putting extra time into a game is always good and never "elitism", unless one nourishes such thinking.

[Rabain]

Specifically we are talking about a difficulty mode change and one difficulty having content the others don't contain. That rarely happens in crpgs at all and if it does they are typically bad games for it. I am not talking about the difficulty of a wolf being rewarded the same as the difficulty of a dragon.

 

If you kill a boss sure, you are welcome to a reward. If you kill the same boss on a higher difficulty level I don't think you are entitled to better rewards because of that. To me that kind of defeats the purpose of a higher difficulty, why get better gear to make the higher difficulty easier?

[Kai]

I don't think all items/rewards should be possible to attain in a single playthrough, as it makes me even more interested in replaying the game. Let's say you get different rewards from solving a quest peacefully or with combat.

 

I'm also the kind of player who is more interested in the story and dialogue than in combat, so I will probably lower the combat difficulty while making things like skill checks in dialogue hidden. That said, I'd prefer if some items are restricted to the kind of playing style you have and not the difficulty (combat and/or other things for immersion).

 

As for the points you made:

I want to save spam, like in the old IE games.

Running, quest markers and maps could probably be optional depending on what you prefer. I just really hope there will be a fog of war.

 

Edit:grammar

Edited October 14, 2012 by Kai

[IndiraLightfoot]

If you kill a boss sure, you are welcome to a reward. If you kill the same boss on a higher difficulty level I don't think you are entitled to better rewards because of that. To me that kind of defeats the purpose of a higher difficulty, why get better gear to make the higher difficulty easier?

 

This goes without saying, Rabain. I agree with you 100 %. However, my point is that all CRPGs /from the best to the worst) already have built-in difficulty variety and hard-to-find stuff, and this has always been rewarded in countless ways. And that rewarding is central to CRPGs, and that is in no way "elitism".

 

Therefore, should other immersion/difficulty settings/modes include some reward, that is not elitism either. It is just part of the reward-psychology of the game.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I don't think all items/rewards should be possible to attain in a single playthrough, as it makes me even more interested in replaying the game. Let's say you get different rewards from solving a quest peacefully or with combat.

 

I'm also the kind of player who is more interested in the story and dialogue than in combat, so I will probably lower the combat difficulty while making things like skill checks in dialogue hidden. That said, I'd prefer if some items are restricted to the kind of playing style you have and not the difficulty (combat and/or other things for immersion).

 

Kai, this is very interesting. I think I would appreciate such a system too!

[jivex5k]

The reward for higher difficulty settings is higher difficulty and the satisfaction you get from the challenge.

[Hassat Hunter]

Yup.

 

Also no stupid stuff like the easy mode cutting 50% of your XP (Baldur's Gate!) so it ends up being harder than normal actually. That's just mean those of us who aren't so good as us. Also have to think about them.

 

And I do also agree that "difficulty bonus items" are a bad idea, so don't do that either. Let everyone make their own decisions, lets not make some extremely better due to extra rewards. Hey, a bit like a CRPG .

[HangedMan]

The fun part of a challenge, to me, is being able to say "Hey, look what I did!" To myself, and maybe, when I am feeling talkative, to others.

[sollus]

If you are playing on a higher difficulty, I don't think you should be given rewards which in turn make that difficulty easier, it seems somewhat counter intuitive.

 

I would be all for some additional difficulty specific content myself. Achievements are not enough motivation for multiple replays. Although when I play through a 2nd time to see different choices or play different classes I will typically try higher difficulty then.

[kabaliero]

Though the way to proper Higher difficulty is activation of improved Artificial Intelligence.

 

Not "MOAR monstar HP & DMG zomg!!1!"

 

[harhar!]

No thanks. Rather make it so, that these modes are actually enjoyable and not "herp derp you didn't wanna use the questmarker, so you can't even finish any quests, have fun searching dumbass (Skyrim)"

[Brother Pain]

Perhaps instead of rewarding people playing on higher difficulties with better loot, they could be rewarded with (as an option mind you) less xp and gold, perhaps worse gear, actually making the difficulty harder. Unique stuff that only the higher difficulties see is something I hate. If a less skilled player or someone with a disability wants to play a game, they shouldn't be punished with not seeing content/not getting to the proper ending/not getting the new game +/etc.

[tox1c5lug]

I am going to sound like the biggest noob ever, but why no mini-map?

[Kai]

Somewhere in the mid to end-game, I'd like to have a NPC that comments on the difficulty settings you've chosen, only in a not so obvious way. If you go for hardest settings, he/she asks you why you make it so hard for yourself, if you have an easier setting, he/she calls you lazy, and some other unique dialogue for playing in different game modes (iron man etc). Then he/she gives you a cookie (with no real use, like heal +2 HP) if your difficulty setting is high enough.

[Hassat Hunter]

I am going to sound like the biggest noob ever, but why no mini-map?

You seriously really don't need one?

 

Why? Because you got overview enough using isometric 2D... especially compared to 3D dungeons for example.

[smithereen]

There is exactly one piece of bonus content I would love too see on in permadeth mode - a short epilogue when you did.

 

"And after the hero was tragically fell to his death, trying to save a kitten from a tree, the rest of his companions, led by Ser Fredrick the Badass,, struck out to find the Artifact of Terror. One by one the fell, and upon their loss of the Artifact, the dreaded Frog-Sothoth devoured the world."

[jivex5k]

Speaking more on this....

I've recently been playing X-Com on ironman mode.

It doesn't offer anything extra, better loot, and gives you a hell of a lot more frustration at your own stupidity.

It's also made the game incredibly more meaningfull and I'm enjoying it quite a bit more. Tense moments are TENSE now...and victorys with no wound are oh-so-much sweeter.

That's enough of a reward for me.

 

I think offering rewards that help your character in-game would eliminate the point of choosing a harder difficulty. It would be like buffing everyone.

 

Maybe have an achievement or an alternate title screen if you beat it on super hard, that doesn't hurt anyone and looks cool.

 

Remember Mario Kart 64? If you got all gold trophies on every CC including reverse the title screen changed to a way cooler one featuring Donkey Kong!

Ahhh...memories.

 

Well back to save the world, lost 2 good members last night....they will be rememberd.