DRM-Free Option -- Why not just make all Steam copies DRM free?

[Delicieuxz]

There's this misconception that Steam is DRM. Steam is just a delivery system, but Valve supplies tool to implement DRM if developers and publishers want to make use of them. Steam games do not require Steam to run unless it is configured so by the game's manager. Skyrim on launch did not require Steam to run, but Bethesda patched it later. Many older games do not bother with Steam dependency, such as Commandos 2. Move the game folder around, copy it to another PC, launch it from the exe with Steam closed (and Steam will not start up).

 

It makes no sense to say "We will offer a Steam version and a DRM-free version" because being a Steam version doesn't necessarily imply things one way or the other regarding DRM implementation. Why not make all versions DRM-free, yet still sell the game on both Steam and GoG? Why punish people who choose Steam instead of GoG as their delivery system by giving them DRM in their copy, when DRM free versions will be readily available anyways?

Edited October 12, 2012 by Delicieuxz

[Uomoz]

So Steam is a punishment? Jeez, there's a DRM free version, stick to it.

 

I have no idea why so many people hate having steam open.

[norolim]

So Steam is a punishment? Jeez, there's a DRM free version, stick to it.

 

I have no idea why so many people hate having steam open.

Would you like to have Photoshop or Windows Movie Maker start everytime you run a game?

[Reddie]

Steam games do not require Steam to run unless it is configured so by the game's manager.

 

Idk about DRM in PE, but while Steam does not necessarily requires client to run while playing, it definetely requires it while installing a game, thus forcing a player to accept their dickish "Subscriber Agreement". Naturally, GOG has it's TOS as well, but they only deal with using the web service and not the installer - you get an actual licence product instead of a licence subscription.

[Uomoz]

So Steam is a punishment? Jeez, there's a DRM free version, stick to it.

 

I have no idea why so many people hate having steam open.

Would you like to have Photoshop or Windows Movie Maker start everytime you run a game?

 

I use steam so much I don't even understand what you are comparing it to. Steam is a platform to share and have live-things like updates. It's one of the 2 ways to buy the game (the other is GoG and is scary-DRM free). Having Steam always online doesn't bother the standard Steam user at all.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Uomoz

[evdk]

So Steam is a punishment? Jeez, there's a DRM free version, stick to it.

 

I have no idea why so many people hate having steam open.

Would you like to have Photoshop or Windows Movie Maker start everytime you run a game?

 

I use steam so much I don't even understand what you are comparing it to. Steam is a platform to share and have live-things like updates. It's one of the 2 ways to buy the game (the other is GoG and is scary-DRM free). Having Steam always online doesn't bother the standard Steam user at all.

That's nice and all, sunshine, but I would rather not have another client running so I can play games. Luckily there is an alternative, so we both can get what we want. Wheeeee.

 

PS Standard human being is not bothered by a lot of things that should by all accounts bother him a lot.

[Uomoz]

That's why you have GoG little Troglodyte of mine (HoMM reference ofc).

[Zoraptor]

There's this misconception that Steam is DRM.

No, there's a misconception that steam is not DRM.

 

You have to have the- separate and non intrinsic- steam software installed and running to install and to patch your 3rd party application, and that's true even for supposedly 'drm free' steam games like those made by Paradox. In a proper DRM free situation you have to do neither. Or to put it another way, if you had to install the SecuROM or Tages client in order to install or patch your games I can practically guarantee that would be considered DRM by the vast majority of "steam is not drm" types.

 

To answer your actual question though, PE will presumably use the 'full' steam drm option because they want achievements/ cloud saves and the like which require the client running.

[Delicieuxz]

There's this misconception that Steam is DRM.

No, there's a misconception that steam is not DRM.

 

You have to have the- separate and non intrinsic- steam software installed and running to install and to patch your 3rd party application, and that's true even for supposedly 'drm free' steam games like those made by Paradox. In a proper DRM free situation you have to do neither. Or to put it another way, if you had to install the SecuROM or Tages client in order to install or patch your games I can practically guarantee that would be considered DRM by the vast majority of "steam is not drm" types.

 

 

No. Retail version patches can be applied to Steam installed games if they don't use CEG or other Steam-specific DRM. Titan's Quest would be an example, and I've installed patches from retail patch installers for at least a few other Steam-owned games. With Steam, the download period IS the install process, and there's no additional installation beyond downloading the files as they're downloaded ready to run. There is nothing about using Steam that forces developers to inject it with restrictions. It can download only the exact same files that the GoG installer extracts if that's what the game uploader chooses. This thread is asking them to make the choice to do so.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Delicieuxz

[jivex5k]

If you don't want DRM get the DRM free option.

If you want the steam version use that.

 

If you want DRM free on steam then get DRM free and add it to steam as a non-steam game.

[Hassat Hunter]

Steam is the DRM. It's not dual-DRM or something... not sure what the hell you're asking here... :/

[Malcador]

If you don't want DRM get the DRM free option.

If you want the steam version use that.

 

If you want DRM free on steam then get DRM free and add it to steam as a non-steam game.

 

Pretty much.

[Zoraptor]

No. Retail version patches can be applied to Steam installed games if they don't use CEG or other Steam-specific DRM.

No to your no. We're talking about a situation where someone wanted/ suggested a single version distributed through steam. As such there would be no separate retail version for there to be a separate patch for, only a steam version on a disk.

 

Titan Quest is a poor counter example in any case- it's six years old and from well before DD really took off as a distribution platform. Steamworks wasn't available to 3rd parties at that time- it was even prior to SecuROM having online activation options.

[DiabolicallyRandom]

So Steam is a punishment? Jeez, there's a DRM free version, stick to it.

 

I have no idea why so many people hate having steam open.

Would you like to have Photoshop or Windows Movie Maker start everytime you run a game?

 

This is a false equivalency and a rather poor one at that. Steam is DRM - it just so happens to be a DRM that a fair number of people find acceptable. If you don't find it acceptable, no problem! Just stick to a version without DRM - or, just don't support the project at all! I personally refuse to buy the Assassins Creed games, for example, due to the highly intrusive DRM they have had. I find steam drm to be much more palatable - I don't exactly prefer it, but it is something I can live with, that only minimally restricts me.

[Delicieuxz]

No. Retail version patches can be applied to Steam installed games if they don't use CEG or other Steam-specific DRM.

No to your no. We're talking about a situation where someone wanted/ suggested a single version distributed through steam. As such there would be no separate retail version for there to be a separate patch for, only a steam version on a disk.

 

Titan Quest is a poor counter example in any case- it's six years old and from well before DD really took off as a distribution platform. Steamworks wasn't available to 3rd parties at that time- it was even prior to SecuROM having online activation options.

 

Wrong. Instead of saying one version is DRM and the other DRM-free, just make all versions DRM-free. Saying Titan's Quest is a poor example because it's old is devoid of reasoning. So you concede that there is nothing about using Steam that forces devs to inject their games with restrictions. OK. Are you implying that Steam mandates that only games made past a certain date have these restrictions? Whether a retail patch will work on Steam relies entirely on whether the affected files on the Steam version are the same as the retail version. If the uploader makes them the same, with no CEG, the same patch will work on both the Steam version and the retail version. Please take any meaningless grudges someplace else.

 

Calling Steam DRM because it has to be open while you are downloading is the same as calling your internet connection DRM because it needs to be active while downloading, or GoG's website DRM because you need to connect to it to download. DRM is a restriction on executing an application, not in acquiring it. Hey, cars and shopping centres are DRM for retail games...

Edited October 12, 2012 by Delicieuxz

[Hassat Hunter]

Sorry, can't make all versions DRM-free, since then there would be no Steam version.

 

And yes, Steam is DRM. I don't need to activate my games with Firefox, I might need to with Steam (Think DX:HR or JC2). More nonsense you want to throw our way?

[Tale]

Arguing that Steam isn't DRM is a pointless argument. I know, I've been on your side.

 

People who don't like Steam because they consider it DRM.. don't like Steam. Requiring them to use Steam will not benefit anyone.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Steam as far as I'm aware wraps the main exe with a steam application that prevents it from running without Steam. Since Steam can be turned to offline mode, Steam is identical to "register once online" form of DRM. That can't be argued with, try to run compatibility mode on the exe that has Steam's wrapper. I'm not sure whether that's all games bought on Steam but I have over 200 and it's all of them. I'm OK with the register once form of DRM, but DRM is known to break, and Steam's offline mode was broken for years, meaning you couldn't play games in offline mode sometimes or for some people ever.

[Umberlin]

DRM is relative. Steam's form is acceptable and can reward the user, even make things easier for the user. I've played games with actual DRM, the kind that keeps you from playing the game normally or at all in the worst of cases. Valve and Steam actually bring you a pretty nice promise, long standing, that no other DRM promises - that being that if they ever go under, if Steam ever goes down for good, they will unlock those games you bought. In addition they consistently reward you free games, free demos (it may not seem like a big thing now, but for awhile various services were trying to get you to pay for demos and Valve was not), massive sales, cheap games, games you can't get anywhere else in some cases and more.

 

Is it perfect? Oh no, no no no, but it could be worse, and they've done a decent job.

 

In the end, if you want DRM free, Obsidian are giving you that option. Steam is DRM, no doubt, but it's DRM done right. The kind that realized you can't punish your legitimate users consistently, because, in the end, if your DRM makes it harder for a person to play a bought game than a pirate stealing your game . . . there's an issue. Steam has luckily made it easier for me to play every game in my library. It's a choice. I use Steam because I choose to, because what it offers makes up for the DRM. It won't do that for everyone. For those people, in this case at least, there is a no DRM option.

[Elerond]

Steam is good as long you don't want sell your license forward.

[Ieo]

To answer your actual question though, PE will presumably use the 'full' steam drm option because they want achievements/ cloud saves and the like which require the client running.

 

^This

 

Forget the DRM discussion for a moment--this thread is moot. The use of Steam DRM has to do with the features Obsidian wants the Steam version to have. So you would only ever get the Steam version if you want those things like cloud saves. Otherwise, get the GOG version. To ask for a "DRM-free" Steam version is both redundant with the GOG option and defeats the purpose of Obsidian using Steam in the first place.

[Troller]

why have achievements at all, I really don't get it lol

[Archmage Silver]

There's this misconception that Steam is DRM. Steam is just a delivery system, but Valve supplies tool to implement DRM if developers and publishers want to make use of them. Steam games do not require Steam to run unless it is configured so by the game's manager. Skyrim on launch did not require Steam to run, but Bethesda patched it later. Many older games do not bother with Steam dependency, such as Commandos 2. Move the game folder around, copy it to another PC, launch it from the exe with Steam closed (and Steam will not start up).

 

It makes no sense to say "We will offer a Steam version and a DRM-free version" because being a Steam version doesn't necessarily imply things one way or the other regarding DRM implementation. Why not make all versions DRM-free, yet still sell the game on both Steam and GoG? Why punish people who choose Steam instead of GoG as their delivery system by giving them DRM in their copy, when DRM free versions will be readily available anyways?

Obsidian phrased it the way they did to avoid confusing anyone. Because most games on Steam require it to run, people generally see it as DRM. Obsidian is better off advertising the distribution scheme like it currently does, it's just so much simpler.

[Hassat Hunter]

why have achievements at all, I really don't get it lol

The Steam residents freak out when there are games without Achievements.

No, really. Many insane rants of modern games without achievements... :/

 

I don't get it either.

[Uomoz]

I want Steam always on and I don't give a carp about achievements. Biased?