Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part II).

[Karranthain]

From the previous thread : http://forums.obsidi...designs-a-plea/

 

One thing that I highly dislike about modern RPGs are the outlandish and outright ugly armour and designs. If you'd allow me some examples (incoming hyperbole and large images) :

 

 

This

 

 

 

Certainly looks better than this :

 

 

Second example :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the examples, I've juxtaposed somewhat ornamental and a bit fantasy looking pieces of equipment with ones that look more like toys (which I consider to be a general tendency in fantasy cRPGS). Is the continuing urge for so called "epicness" really worth it? I think there's plenty of historical (and not so historical) arms and armour to draw inspiration from. Non-practical equipment is a real eye sore most of the time, IMHO.

 

And yes, I realize that the game is isometric, and we won't see arms and armour in great detail - but that'll only make the task that much easier.

 

While we're at it, please consider using something similar for item descriptions :

 

[Karranthain]

Can't wait to see the first screenshot (mockup?) today, we'll know more about the designs.

[TrashMan]

Aye. I agree. Keep the design sensible and believable.

[Bli1942]

I agree about realistic/sensible armour. For the best weapons/special quest weapons I think they should be over the top big and elaborate, it is a fantasy game and not real life after all, but for the majority of weapons a more simple look is good I guess.

 

Can't wait to see the first screenshot (mockup?) today, we'll know more about the designs.

 

I haven't really kept up to speed, is that actually happening???

Edited October 11, 2012 by Bli1942

[Jarmo]

Right. Wouldn't mind coming across the enchantress/succubus of the fourth picture though. Nope.

As long as that's not trying to pass for the ladies version of a mail hauberk.

 

Doesn't have to be directly lifted from history, a bit of extragavant fantasy stuff works for me.

Then again, I'd love to see a varangian guard inspired designs, or something to that direction.

 

---

And if there's a screenshot shown, it'll have to be a mockup.

Could show the direction they're thinking about, but even that's liable to change.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Jarmo

[Karranthain]

Then again, I'd love to see a varangian guard inspired designs, or something to that direction.

 

I can see why :

 

[Piccolo]

For the best weapons/special quest weapons I think they should be over the top big and elaborate, it is a fantasy game and not real life after all, but for the majority of weapons a more simple look is good I guess.

Why does something need to be over the top big just because it's good? It really bugs me when developers do that in fantasy games, because I just end up thinking the lower level weapons all look good while the higher level weapons look like crap.

 

At the very most, I want powerful weapons to have subtle quirks when it comes to their visual appearance - like an otherwise ordinary looking sword having a slight blue hue on it's blade to reflect the fact that it was made using a really rare type of metal. Or an expensive (but not necessarily more powerful) sword having a slightly more ornate grip/pommel.

[GhoulishVisage]

 

 

I'm a sucker for practically designed armor, especially if it's based off of actual historic designs.

Witcher 2 excelled in the look and feel of practical, historic armor.

 

 

 

Also I'm hoping that insane pauldrons will be kept to a minimum in PE. 40k and WoW did not realize what they would unleash.

Edited October 11, 2012 by GhoulishVisage

[obyknven]

Also I'm hoping that insane pauldrons will be kept to a minimum in PE. 40k and WoW did not realize what they would unleash.

 

[Exile2k4]

I agree completely that it'd be good to see an absence of the giant Final-Fantasy style weapons. I think though there's a tendency to slightly increase the weapon size beyond real-world equivalents just because it makes them more visible, especially from a pulled-back isometric perspective. Historically accurate weapons like warhammers might be hard to distinguish from a stick depending on how zoomed out the camera is.

[Karranthain]

I agree completely that it'd be good to see an absence of the giant Final-Fantasy style weapons. I think though there's a tendency to slightly increase the weapon size beyond real-world equivalents just because it makes them more visible, especially from a pulled-back isometric perspective. Historically accurate weapons like warhammers might be hard to distinguish from a stick depending on how zoomed out the camera is.

 

We'll know more in a few hours. Can't wait!

[Michael_Galt]

Yes. Please have realistic stuff. I don't care if the "super magical" stuff is a bit fantastic, but I don't want silliness running around the screen.

[Osvir]

I'd love to see two-handed mace's (cudgel's?) or giant swords, but my character should be almost dragging them and attack very slowly (Unless having a ridiculous amount of Strength). Giant weapons generally, within reason and with realism/authenticity taken into consideration.

 

EDIT: One tactical aspect of this could also be to buff my Warrior a lot with a Chanter, making him even more capable of wielding the two-handed weapons. So if he attacks super slow without buff's, I can buff him so he attacks "slow" or even "average".

 

In other words it would almost be a disadvantage having a giant weapon, because it'd need an upkeep of 2 characters. However, tactically the two handed weapons could be advantageous (as they should be) against a large crowd of enemies (sweeping and cleaving attacks).

Edited October 12, 2012 by Osvir

[Karranthain]

I'd really like to see designs such as these :

 

 

I'd love to see two-handed mace's (cudgel's?) or giant swords, but my character should be almost dragging them and attack very slowly (Unless having a ridiculous amount of Strength). Giant weapons generally, within reason and with realism/authenticity taken into consideration.

 

EDIT: One tactical aspect of this could also be to buff my Warrior a lot with a Chanter, making him even more capable of wielding the two-handed weapons. So if he attacks super slow without buff's, I can buff him so he attacks "slow" or even "average".

 

In other words it would almost be a disadvantage having a giant weapon, because it'd need an upkeep of 2 characters. However, tactically the two handed weapons could be advantageous (as they should be) against a large crowd of enemies (sweeping and cleaving attacks).

 

Osvir, you might find this topic interesting : http://forums.obsidi...pon-mechanics/.

[Karranthain]

I can't wait to see the characters in-game, that will tell us a lot about the designs. Though judging by the first screenshot and the concept art, I think we're safe

Edited October 13, 2012 by Karranthain

[Feynt]

I prefer appropriately skimpy outfits. Armour like the platemail bikini in the first post which supposedly offers the protection of the complete coverage the males enjoy is right out. But say, partial leather with stylish clothing, offering situational armour. Then it's a great design. Sure, maybe with an exposed midriff you'll suffer a lack of protection for body shots, but with protected extremities you'll be more likely to parry and (as is normal) defend yourself with those parts of you that are padded. And for Mod's sake, please don't fashion armour that form fits breasts.

 

 

This ^ is female plate.

 

This v is not

 

 

 

As for fanciful weaponry... I happen to like the asuran weaponry in GW2. And Monster Hunter's selection. I think it's less about the design and more about the complexity though. At the end of the day, a sword is just a big sharp piece of metal. Don't make it a clockwork weapon unless it's a hand blender or a chainsaw. Keep it simple first and foremost.

[Karranthain]

I'd love to see something like this in the game :

 

[Monte Carlo]

What's *not* to love about Landsknecht?

 

 

Please let me have as colourful a character as this chap:

 

 

Fantasy iteration of Italian Condottieri, for all the "why post this historic stuff?" whiners.

 

[Karranthain]

He's a Landsknecht, and he's okay.

He sleeps all night and he works all day.

He puts on puffed clothing.

And hangs around in bars!

[Karranthain]

And one more :

 

 

I think that this design would easily fit into a fantasy world.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Karranthain

[Tsuga C]

I think that this design would easily fit into a fantasy world.

 

Everything works except the great helm. You'd end up with crushed cervical vertabrae and/or a 26" neck size if you wore that thing for any length of time unless the horns and frill weighed next to nothing. They'd be fine for ceremonial or parade gear, but not for an active adventurer.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Tsuga C

[Acridine Orange]

I definitely like unique and interestingly detailed weapons and armor but in such a way that they still make sense. I really, really dislike the recent trend to have all of these crazy, outlandish, super extravagant weapons and armor with pauldrons bigger than your head and weapons so huge and unwieldy that they don't make practical sense even if a character could wield them.

 

Looking at the P.E. concept art posted thus far, it seems to me that they are making exactly the kind of weapons and armor that I love to see in a game. The kind that you could see actually working and making sense in such a world, and whose construction is achievable with their current level of technology (perhaps supplemented by a little magic or exotic materials or something). So realism with a touch of otherworldliness, that sounds just about right to me.

[Jarmo]

I think that this design would easily fit into a fantasy world.

 

Everything works except the great helm. You'd end up with crushed cervical vertabrae and/or a 26" neck size if you wore that thing for any length of time unless the horns and frill weighed next to nothing. They'd be fine for ceremonial or parade gear, but not for an active adventurer.

 

Teutonic Knights FTW. Not a practical helm, but they wore them anyway and I guess rule of cool applied.

-1 to dexterity, +1 to charisma and +2 to intimidate

[Acridine Orange]

I think that this design would easily fit into a fantasy world.

 

Everything works except the great helm. You'd end up with crushed cervical vertabrae and/or a 26" neck size if you wore that thing for any length of time unless the horns and frill weighed next to nothing. They'd be fine for ceremonial or parade gear, but not for an active adventurer.

 

Teutonic Knights FTW. Not a practical helm, but they wore them anyway and I guess rule of cool applied.

-1 to dexterity, +1 to charisma and +2 to intimidate

 

Not to mention intimidating. A lot of armor was designed with intimidation in mind. Take the Spartans for example, their armor was designed to be not only functional but also very aggressive looking. Many of their opponents were so intimidated by their fully armored (unlike the 300 movie portrays), perfectly ordered formations that they fought ineffectively or fled outright.

[BTA51]

Agree. I usually don't even use the high level stuff I find just because they're ugly and unrealistic. I keep the same starting weapons and armour through the whole game because they often look the most realistic. Would be nice if PE didn't make me do this.