Has Obsidian gone too far in some of its recent updates?

[mute688]

Think of it this way. Without a publisher backing this game with a massive marketing budget, the kickstarter campaign effectively becomes their marketing campaign. It doesn't cost them anything beyond the tier reward costs and with things such as the facebook 'like' they can market to a wider audience. Despite not liking/using facebook personally, I think it's a great idea. I'd rather see this than any portion of the kickstarter money going to a marketing campaign.

[Tamerlane]

All of those things are totally fine.

 

Much panic and fear over nothing.

 

It seems like this post should have a third sentence so here.

[eleve]

Oh no, they did not hurt my feelings That needs more than what they did. And if somebody thinks I expect them to pass out the promise of expansions to everybody...well, no, not really even though a promise on its own is cheap. I would, however, expect them to not promise expansions before they are done with their original project. I am also a bit surprised that the people here don't see the difference between a cloth map being added to a Kickstarter goal and a game expansion being added to one.

 

Kickstarter works by having people put their trust and their money into other people/a company based solely on their word and whatever else they may have at that time. What Obsidian did do, is violate some of the trust people put into them by starting to promise more than they possibly could at this particular point of time. The initial project is barely more than started and already they are talking about expansions based on, as yet, imaginary sales?

 

I also run my own business and if/when I see someone behave like this I pull out, yes. Not because my feelings am hurt but because my trust in someones initial goal (which is, after all, the one I pledged my money for) disappears with such promises.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

I'm not worried about 'how far they go'. I am ambivalent about the direction.

 

What I think most people here are donating money for is a game made by the designers of Torment, Mask of the Betrayer, Arcanum, etc. which is unrestrained by a publisher demanding certain things be done a certain way because of 'market demographics'. We want to see rich characters, a gripping story and an awesome game world behind it, all told by developers who aren't obligated to water things down so it can be sold to twitchy 13 year olds. All of these things can be achieved without tons of classes or races or dungeons.

 

Barbarians, hall of heroes, dungeon levels and so forth aren't the kinds of things I care about, and using them as selling points doesn't interest me. If they could cut all those things and use the money and time saved to make a deeper, more polished game, I'd want them to do it in a heartbeat.

 

Which isn't to say that they aren't focusing on the things I'm hoping they focus on, and of course its much harder to make concrete selling points for those things than it is to add a new class or a new race. Still, though I would give more money if I could, I would do so because I want the game made by the people who propose to make it, not because I want another level in a megadungeon.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Death Machine Miyagi

[SqueakyCat]

@eleve

 

They have already stated that they will be using their own funds to make the expansion.

 

The expansion is something they were already planning, no doubt, and are simply offering it as a "reward" for higher level tiers.

 

It will in no way affect the quality or length of the initial game and will not be started until the end of the development cycle or after release. These comments were made in the "Comments" section on the Kickstarter page.

[nikolokolus]

I think historians will look back on the first half of the 21st century as the "Age of Entitlement."

 

For the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, some people really need an ego check.

[Metabot]

You people are dumb as rocks. As for the facebook likes thing, isn't it a good thing? It's extra content based on something that is free rather than more pledge money.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Metabot

[Raithe]

I suspect they just have daily meetings where they desperately try to think of things to add, ways to promote it. "Crap - how about a big dungeon, that we can add more levels to?"

 

To be fair, there were a couple of threads about the idea of a "big dungeon" and a whole heap of fans talking about some of the classic big dungeons from those games of yesteryear and what they liked / disliked about them, and whether they hoped there would be such a dungeon in this game...

So it seems to me that Obsidian have been paying attention to the fans and thought "yes, that actually makes a good stretch goal that would naturally fit into the game, and could get a few fun minor-stretches out of it".

 

As to the expansion pack, to my mind, what they're saying is they have the money to make the game they wanted to make, they'd talked about how they want to carry this IP forward beyond just the one story in the future.. So now they have double the money they thought they'd need, they've added a bunch of ideas to expand what they were doing.. and they've turned around and basically said "we aren't going to do crappy dlc, we now plan to do old school expansion packs in the future". At a guess, I'd say they plan to actually SELL the expansion pack when they do come out, but they're going to provide it free to people who've pledged a fair chunk of money. It's a brucey-bonus to the folks who can and have gone above and beyond in support of this project. They aren't saying that they're going to do an expansion pack that is ONLY available to those people. So it's not being a slap in the face of folks who haven't / cannot pledge beyond certain amounts.

 

I'd say it adds encouragement that they want to make this good enough that they can push it beyond the one game. They aren't just doing a one-off and that's it. They're creating a world, and a system and hopefully it'll last long enough that we get to explore a fair portion of it in and share a variety of stories over the next decade.

[Longknife]

I'm still trying to understand what being an "old skool" RPG fan has to do with disliking those updates.

[Jaesun]

I'm still trying to understand what being an "old skool" RPG fan has to do with disliking those updates.

 

It's called trolling.

[Magnum Opus]

To the true Old-school RPG fan, any updates should come on a monthly basis via the gaming magazines they subscribe to or not at all. It's the whole "instant communication" thing that's got them off their nuts, I'm sure of it.

 

Well, I'm mostly sure of it. Partly sure, anyway...

[Elerond]

Facebook likes are for to make Project Eternity wider know and so get more people to become interested about it and so get more money to make game better to all of us.

Better rewards on higher tiers is also method to get more money for the project. And on higher tiers cost of rewards to Obsidian is relatively much lower, which is reason why they want people to go pledge on higher tiers. And when people pledge on higher tier it mean more money to make game better to us all.

 

And planing to start making expansion pack for the game immediately after the game is realeased is common bussiness practice as company don't usually give time for its employees to roll their thumbs. And usually companies plan to make this expansion pack from that money what they get from the game. And this is also what obsidian mean to do. And putting expansion pack as extra to higher tiers only reflect that they want make best possible game and cutting from their future income to do so.

 

So I would say that obsidian hasn't gone too far in their updates.

[happyelf]

Also keep in mind, there are people who might want to support the project, but cannot afford to give more of a pledge. If anything, a simple option such as facebook promotion gives peolpe a way to show their support even if they can't offer, or update their pledge.

[Superdeluxe]

Up front, I'm pledged on the game and that isn't going to change. That said, some of the recent announcements not only have me rolling my eyes, they have other "old school" RPG fans I know laughing at how stupid they seem. Asking for Facebook likes to get another dungeon level? Giving away Wasteland 2 now if you pledge above a certain amount? Promising an expansion to pledgers above a certain amount? How about they just focus on things that will expand PE, not other stuff like that?

 

Am I the only one who thinks they've gone a bit too far with this?

 

Yes you are.

 

In my opinion they are not going far enough. You really have a issue with using social media to help promote the game. Really?

 

And the expansion is going to be paid by profits once the game is released. How does that hurt the current PE?

[Superdeluxe]

You people are dumb as rocks. As for the facebook likes thing, isn't it a good thing? It's extra content based on something that is free rather than more pledge money.

 

They should be busy working on the game and not trying to promote and get more for the project!!! They are going to far!

[flarglebargle]

i certinly think they need to be carefull of what promise us so that stuff like the heros hall doesn't conflict with stuff later on if they decide to change things about the game once they start making it

[Inannachan]

Personally they haven't gone far enough. The more publicity makes for a better game. They don't have some big company like EA able to throw out advertisements for the game and such, they chose that way when they came to us, the fans. Why shouldn't they use social media to get more attention? I want a game with as much backing as possible to make the game truly shine like the diamond I know its going to be.

[Director]

To be fair, there were a couple of threads about the idea of a "big dungeon" and a whole heap of fans talking about some of the classic big dungeons from those games of yesteryear and what they liked / disliked about them, and whether they hoped there would be such a dungeon in this game...

So it seems to me that Obsidian have been paying attention to the fans and thought "yes, that actually makes a good stretch goal that would naturally fit into the game, and could get a few fun minor-stretches out of it".

 

I'm sure there's more to the decision making process, my point was that all these stretch goals / extra rewards are reactionary, rather than carefully planned in advance. And that's not bad - it's just because they didn't expect to reach their goal so fast.

[Sensuki]

As much as I hate facebook, there's nothing wrong with getting extra game content for pressing a mouse button.

[Gatt9]

As much as I hate facebook, there's nothing wrong with getting extra game content for pressing a mouse button.

 

Plus, the whole goal is to bring the project to the attention of even more people, which could bring *alot* more content in the form of more pledges. Honestly, there's really no downside on this IMO.

[Piccolo]

The mega dungeon thing is a bit of fun I think, and a great way to involve the community. And I don't see anything wrong at all with including Wasteland 2 as a tier reward. I do feel as though it's a bit too soon to be thinking about expansion packs however...

 

The only thing that's made me roll my eyes a little bit thus far is the exclusive in-game pet. I guess some people love that kind of stuff though.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Piccolo

[Madzookeeper]

direct quote from feargus about the expansion funding.

 

@Bootsy 81 We are going to fund it ourselves and from the sales we get from project eternity when it comes available- not from the Kickstater funds. I don't think we will do a Kickstater just for it, I'd rather see about funding the sequel that way - if you guys will still have us.

 

 

 

also seems like a decent place to post this:

 

expansion packs are always thought about at this point in development i'd imagine. because the amount of ideas and such they have for games are so many that they just won't fit within time or budget constraints. however they are in no way going to be holding back anything they've promised, and they are going to be doing as much as they can. and it will be a whole/complete/long (think the old games length as what they're aiming for, or if you want a number 60+ hours (from a feargus comment a few days ago)) game. the expansion will not be worked on at all until after the game itself is complete (also from feargus), and they are funding the expansion themselves so no kickstarter funds are going to it at all (also from feargus). they're just saying that they are going to continue working in this world regardless of if it sells well immediately, as they have to by making this promise.

 

all of that is from things in the comments, most of it from days ago. if need be i can get feargus to come in and post about this, or to give me a direct quote i can copy/paste (he offered this in the comments). so most of the concerns about this are really kinda founded on not having all of the information. really, we're getting what we want out of this. MORE of what we want, what with them funding the expansion out of their own pocket without a publisher and basically hoping that the game sells beyond the backers. it shows that they are serious about this being a continuing world. this is a good thing.

 

sorry i didn't get this in here sooner.

[Monte Carlo]

Imho, no, you are not going too far. Having them talk about expansions before even having properly started, far less finished the game is going too far for me. It also strikes me as slapping people in the face who have only little money. Obsidian should never forget that it is the $20 pledges as well as the $10k pledges that help them finance their project. We are pledging our money based on trust, we are not placing pre-orders. Excluding part of their backers at this point already leaves a bad taste for me. And no, this is not the same as just another book or cloth map.

 

I will most probably pull out of it based on Todays update.

 

LOL.

 

Bye.

 

It's like banging your head against a brick wall.... Tales of the Sword Coast went gold by the time BG1 shipped. This is nothing new. It's not Day One DLC. You're still getting a great game for $20.

 

The Internet. The Internet never changes.

[melkathi]

The Wasteland 2 thing is not Obsidian loosing focus. It is Brian Fargo pledging support to Project Eternity.

Basically what Brian Fargo said is: "Hi guys! I'll support your kickstarter campaign! But how about insetad of just giving you money and being one more backer, I give you copies of this highly anticipated game I am making to give away to your backers?"

 

The Facebook thing:

Any product needs marketing. That would usually be the publisher's job. This project is self-published (Yay!). The devs have to come up themselves with ways to make the public aware of it. And that public is not just those of us old enough to have, when BG first came out, said "Whoa! Isometric? I can see my character? An RPG that is not first person?!?" or "Its good... but... it's no Eye of the Beholder..."

A facebook page is a cheap way of having an accessible online presence. Would people rather they did not have a facebook page but then would have to spend actual cash on advertising? Cash that could have been used to make a better product?

[Hornet85]

Different people have different views on the matter.

 

Do I believe that there would be an expansion pack? Yes I always did. (and thankfully not DLC, I hate those).

 

But if you ask me do I think they should announce it now before the project is done? I'd probably hesitate. There are people who would be excited, but there will also be those who takes it the wrong way and feel that they are being left out after donating something to help the project and not get part of it. I'm glad Obsidian are being honest with us because I think most big Kickstarter projects will have expansions or DLC, the dev probably don't want to talk about it now for good reason.

 

 

As for Wasteland 2, c'mon man, that's no big deal. Its not like Obsidian have to help develop Wasteland 2 or anything. Brian Fargo is just offering to give a copy to anyone who help support PE that much, where's the harm in that?