Baldur's Gate enhanced edition

[BruceVC]

Alan you may have an informed opinion on this type of question. Why would they have left out the cinematics in BGEE and are they difficult to recreate from scratch?

 

No clue whatsoever. At best I could ask a friend that works for them though.

 

If you could ask and get an answer that would be really interesting

 

Considering those cinematics (in the original) are unskipable on a fresh install, and hold no value what so ever in terms of progressing the story of the game (though it can be argued they help establish a tone, even though I personally don't get that from them), I'd much rather have a game that didn't include them at all over a game that force me to watch them again.

 

So in my eyes, a clear improvement.

Yes this is my view. I don't see this detracting from the gaming experience.

 

Honestly I don't consider the cinematics as a very important part of an RPG or rather that relevant. I think you are comfortable with them and you expect them to be part of the game, so the thought of them being left out makes you think "this will detract from my experience. Thats why for me playing BG1 for the first time I want to look at the gameplay objectively with no previous opinion and then comment on the overall entertainment factor that BGEE provides

 

You seem to be avoiding my question. This is the third time I'll ask it.

 

Imagine a developer saying they are going to enhance all the cinematics in BG2 and even stating this on their website, then having nearly every cutscene and movie taken out of BG2, despite relabelling the game 'Baldurs Gate 2 Enhanced Edition'. You seem to be okay with this? You're okay with most of the cinematics and movies taken out of BG2 even though the game is being marketed as the 'enhanced edition' with upgraded graphics and cinematics?

 

If Overhaul are having problems enhancing and finishing BG1 on time (even with one delayed release date) and BG1 is no where near the size of BG2, then what problems are Overhaul going to have when they start on the BG2 enhanced edition next year. Because I think my question is relevant when it comes to BG2.

 

I hear what you saying, you are suggesting it could mean other technical issues if they can't even get cinematics working.

 

But I do think you are "making a storm in tea cup"

 

To answer your question I don't mind them taking out the cinematics. For me this doesn't mean they won't be delivering an enhanced game, its just one component of how BG can be improved, and a minor part. I am going to play the game and judge it on other feature that include additional quests, character, graphics and interface Those for me are worthy enhanced features. But I understand we all have different expectations for what we think should be in BGEE, so we should just agree to disagree

[Lorfean]

Ask them for a comment, maybe they ran out of time and are going to implement those later. I mean they're improving multiplayer post-release, maybe they'll add videos?

 

From Trent Oster's Twitter:

 

We replaced many of the movies with new treatments and rendered them out at 720P. The old movies we didn't replace have been removed.

 

We are not going to re-do the snake charmer/carpet shake and the other movies as we felt they were not critical story telling elements

 

So that's 12 cinematics from the original BG that they've removed and will not replace with something new.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Lorfean

[BruceVC]

From Trent Oster's Twitter:

 

We replaced many of the movies with new treatments and rendered them out at 720P. The old movies we didn't replace have been removed.

 

We are not going to re-do the snake charmer/carpet shake and the other movies as we felt they were not critical story telling elements

 

So that's 12 cinematics from the original BG that they've removed and will not replace with something new.

 

Well then this reiterates for me that the number of movies removed isn't really a big deal? Thanks for the post

[Lorfean]

I wasn't replying to you. Edited my post to clarify that.

[BruceVC]

I wasn't replying to you. Edited my post to clarify that.

 

Thats not why I commented, your post is pertient to the discussion I am having on this thread.

[Lorfean]

Ah, alright. Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on what you said then -- I think the number of movies removed is a big deal. Twelve is a significant amount, and it makes me wonder what they actually left in / replaced aside from the intro, the Friendly Arm Inn, and the outro.

 

In an isometric title like BG, where you explore the entire game world from a top down camera angle, those cinematics offered a unique perspective of some important locations and did a great job setting the mood and atmosphere for several of the bigger story moments and set pieces in the game. Stuff like the kobolds near Nashkel, the Gnoll Stronghold, the Wyvern in the Cloakwood Forest, the Candlekeep Library, the slow reveals of Durlag's Tower and the Temple of Bhaal... I liked all those scenes a lot. And sure, they might not look like much today, but they haven't lost their charm and they definitely have high nostalgic value. They could've just disabled them as a default setting and allow players to enable them according to their personal tastes.

 

I also call bull**** on Oster's "not critical to storytelling" comment. How can the Candlekeep Library and Temple of Bhaal intros not be critical to storytelling? Or the Durlag's Tower reveal, for that matter? Also, don't insult the original animators and fans that have actually enjoyed these cinematics for over a decade:

 

Jile Meyn ‏@IndigouFox

@TrentOster I loved the shaking of the carpet over the flute player though

 

Trent Oster @TrentOster

‏@IndigouFox I remember thinking "what the hell were the animators thinking" when I saw that for the first time.

[BruceVC]

Ah, alright. Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on what you said then -- I think the number of movies removed is a big deal. Twelve is a significant amount, and it makes me wonder what they actually left in / replaced aside from the intro, the Friendly Arm Inn, and the outro.

 

 

 

Nooooooooooooo, now we aren't on the same side anymore. That makes me sad

 

Come join the "removing cinematics isn't a big deal" army and we can be good friends again

Edited November 28, 2012 by BruceVC

[Volourn]

All this shows is Oyster's laziness. How cna one be so alkzy working on a project where the majority of work was already done about a dozen years ago. What a pathetic piece of crap.

[Tale]

I don't get it. Can't they just rip the cinematics from the original game?

The concern is likely inconsistency. They are low resolution and nothing like the new ones in style.

[anubite]

Go play BG1, the movies, while great for their time, are ugly as sin to look at today. Your average consumer, ignorant of how old BG1 really is, would likely be thrown off by their bad quality. They might consider the work "unprofessional" or shoddy, had they stayed in. They could even disturb 'immersion' I guess.

 

I think MOST of us end up skipping these movies after a certain point, so I suspect they are not all that important. But... well, it's hard to say one way or the other whether their removal was justified. It does seem like nitpicking though.

 

How is the EE besides that?

Edited November 28, 2012 by anubite

[Volourn]

"o play BG1, the movies, while great for their time, are ugly as sin to look at today. "

 

No. I played BG just a few months ago. While the game itself is passe, the videos are fine.

[alanschu]

Just for reference sake, here's the Nashkel Mines intro (these do not contain spoilers for any that haven't played the game):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T_yyLmRqFI

 

 

And Beregost:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxuXeToyAW4

Edited November 28, 2012 by alanschu

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I hear what you saying, you are suggesting it could mean other technical issues if they can't even get cinematics working.

 

But I do think you are "making a storm in tea cup"

 

To answer your question I don't mind them taking out the cinematics. For me this doesn't mean they won't be delivering an enhanced game, its just one component of how BG can be improved, and a minor part. I am going to play the game and judge it on other feature that include additional quests, character, graphics and interface Those for me are worthy enhanced features. But I understand we all have different expectations for what we think should be in BGEE, so we should just agree to disagree

 

No, I'm not making a storm in a tea cup. Ripping out most of the original cinematics and not replacing them with anything goes against everything they said about enhancing the game and their statement on the website that all cinematices would be enhanced.

 

So now you've admitted you don't mind having original content such as most of the cinematics ripped out of BG2 and not replaced with anything. And then having Overhaul label it an enhanced edition. Since you've played BG2 and you would know what's missing and have no problem with this. Thanks for admitting that you like games with cinematics ripped out of them and being labelled enhanced editions.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Hiro Protagonist II

[anubite]

Hmm, they look better than I remember. I think they would be passable... though maybe not. I mean, this is for tablets right? Tablets have pretty big resolutions, if they couldn't upscale those movies then they'd look horrible stretched on a screen that large.

[LadyCrimson]

Hmm, they look better than I remember. I think they would be passable... though maybe not. I mean, this is for tablets right? Tablets have pretty big resolutions, if they couldn't upscale those movies then they'd look horrible stretched on a screen that large.

They looked ok when I played BG1 on my current PC a while back. Not HD or great or anything, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't giant square pixel color-mush. I know the resolutions have changed, but it's not like I played BG1 on an 8" screen back in the day. More like 17" or 19" (CRT). Which honestly isn't that much physically smaller than playing it non-stretched/non-widescreen on a 23" LCD monitor.

 

I don't always understand the resolution game in terms of gaming vs. monitor, tho. I can play some old games (like DK) on LCD monitor and it looks perfectly fine (again, when not stretched/black bars on sides), and I can play other games and it looks "softer" or smaller than I remember on the CRT's of similar size.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Comparison between the original and enhanced intro movies.

 

Original Introduction 1998

 

Enhanced Edition 2012

[LadyCrimson]

... ...

 

No offense intended to the hard work they probably put into that, but outside of the better resolution aspect, I prefer the original.

[Tigranes]

That intro is just awful. Wasted time, wasted labour, wasted attention. The hand-drawn method isn't a problem, the problem is the hand drawing isn't very good, and the editing/cutting work is shoddy. The original was nothing special, so it's pretty hard to make it significantly worse, but there you go.

[Azure79]

Hmm, I do like the original better. Sarevok is definitely more menacing when actually moving.

[Volourn]

Garbage. Total garbage. Complete total garbage.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

There seems to be divided opinions on the BG forums. The consensus from forums posts that I'm getting is most people prefer the new intro, while a minority prefer the old one. Not having a go at Beamdog as they've obviously spent some time into doing this.

 

Having seen both and even though the resolution is dated, I prefer the old one. Sarevok's entrance with the door exploding in pieces shows Sarevok's raw power, the different lighting effects againts Sarevok's armour, the helplessness of the bhaalspawn trying to get away which you don't see in the remake, the cut lines from the bhaalspawn saying 'there are others', Another example of Sarevok's raw power with the sequence of picking up the bhaalspawn, pushing him through the fence and having him hang over the edge, seeing the bhaalspawn struggle with his arms and legs. In the remake, the Bhaalspawn just seems to sit there and do nothing while Sarevok grabs him and then the next shot is Sarevok already out over the fence.

 

It's a shame the original videos couldn't have been used, restored and enhanced in some way with higher resolution like they do with restoring movies on DVD. (the old Doctor Who episodes and Lawrence of Arabia comes to mind). I think it really highlights the difference between full motion and still images.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Hiro Protagonist II

[WDeranged]

Yep, I've never really played BG but I prefer the original intro, the new one isn't terrible but it's lost the subtlety, the original builds a pretty good sense of terror while the new one rams it down your throat.

[Sensuki]

Yeah I'm gonna go with the total garbage crowd.

[HoonDing]

That intro looks like something from an indie visual novel.

[alanschu]

Neither intro looks particularly good IMO hahaha.