Mega Dungeon Level Ideas

[Monte Carlo]

This thread isn't about anything other than dungeon level ideas and themes.

 

Feel free to go mad. If you want story-based dungeon stuff describe it. If you want traps share your favourites. If you want to use your skills then describe how. If you want to wade through hordes of monsters armed with a +1 golf club, then tell us about it.

 

I have many ideas but I want to hear yours first!

 

http://grognardia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/multi-level-mapping.html

 

This should whet your appetite, hat-tip to the excellent Grognardia blog.

[kirottu]

I have only one very general suggestion that deeper you go more organic it looks. So upper levels look man made and lower levels are more "cavey".

[Ieo]

I'd just like a large, cohesive, interactive story that requires narrative memory like Durlag's Tower. (I want to be treated intelligently not only in combat but in other ways. Riddles or puzzles are fine with me, though I know they're not everyone's cup of tea.)

[Jaesun]

I'd love to see something story driven, along the lines of Durlag's Tower. If it ALSO ties in with the main Quest (as in not REQUIRED, but you garner some additional clues or other various goodies) that would be Fabulous.

[nikolokolus]

I always liked the idea of a humongous cavern that opens up at some point -- I'm thinking Journey to the Center of the Earth style -- at the deepest levels you should start to encounter the truly weird; maybe something Cthulhu inspired?

[agewisdom]

I would prefer if there's an interesting lore and sidequests to back up the exploration. This could include:

 

1. An archaelogical expedition sidequest where the PC finds information about the lost remnants of an ancient civilization. The deeper he goes down the levels, the more knowledge he obtains. This may lead to shedding some lights on some ancient mysteries that have plagued many scholars in the PE setting.

 

2. A mixture of sentient monsters banding together to form a cohesive faction in the deeper levels. They may not be necessarily antagonistic to the PC. As the PC go deepers in the levels and they find the PC worthy of respect, they may approach him to discuss about trading/safe passage etc. Perhaps these could lead to a profitable trading relationship where items in the mega dungeon such as gems could be traded for goods available on the surface.

 

3. For different classes such as ciphers or wizards, they may meet extremely powerful NPCs that may give them access to powers which they may not acquire elsewhere.

Edited October 5, 2012 by agewisdom

[curryinahurry]

Love those maps on Grognardia!

 

Ok, a few off the top of my head:

 

- An underground lake that must be traversed by boat to reach an island with a a puzzle of some sort that will lead down to the next level or a crypt; the lake must have a monster that for some reason only attacks on the return voyage

- A level that is not a level, rather an illusion cast by a malign entity that has clues to solve and said entity to defeat

- An arboreal level filled with strange living plants and creatures that worship one of the quest related items you must wrest away in order to progress

 

I'll think of more later

Edited October 5, 2012 by curryinahurry

[Monte Carlo]

Personally I'm hoping for some unique terrain. IWD showed us how good Obz are at beautifully designed dungeon levels with interesting tactical possibilities. And the lower levels of Dragon's Eye, for example, shows us how they can implement diverse monster types / factions. Of course, I'd like it if you could parley with the inhabitants of the dungeon rather than them attack on sight.

 

Dungeon-dwellers might get used to adventurers and not always view them as a threat. Maybe they'd trade for intelligence about what's going on above the dungeon, for treasure or even for assistance.

[Sensuki]

Deeper you go harder it gets (plz) and a freaking insane boss fight at the end.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Sensuki

[Monte Carlo]

Sensuki's point might sound obvious, but it is crucial to my mind.

 

Conquering the next dungeon level should be a major achievement. For example, while you are on level 2 you will pick up tidbits of info on level 3. That will guide you as to any specialist spells, equipment or supplies you might need (dammit there are ghouls on level 3, we need holy water and a cleric!). As you descend the challenges and threats get greater.

 

This does NOT (necessarily) mean level-scaling. There might still be relatively weak monsters on lower levels that you might easily defeat if it is logical in the dungeon ecology (say for example that the Ogre Magi on level 6 has an army of stupid Hobgoblin mooks who he uses as fodder for over-confident adventurers, grinding down their spells and supplies before he enters the fray).

 

Ideally, at the end of a level, if you've gauged it right, your party should be battered, have gotten some great loot, used skills and defeated suitably tough foes. When you find the next level down you will almost certainly need to travel back to civilization for a re-org phase.

 

I'm happy to see a level-scaling discussion here, it is very important. But maybe only some boss battles or key events should be scaled. I'm all for the old "this module is suitable for character levels 6-9" spiel. Caveat emptor and all that.

[Ieo]

I would prefer if there's an interesting lore and sidequests to back up the exploration. This could include:

 

1. An archaelogical expedition sidequest where the PC finds information about the lost remnants of an ancient civilization. The deeper he goes down the levels, the more knowledge he obtains. This may lead to shedding some lights on some ancient mysteries that have plagued many scholars in the PE setting.

 

2. A mixture of sentient monsters banding together to form a cohesive faction in the deeper levels. They may not be necessarily antagonistic to the PC. As the PC go deepers in the levels and they find the PC worthy of respect, they may approach him to discuss about trading/safe passage etc. Perhaps these could lead to a profitable trading relationship where items in the mega dungeon such as gems could be traded for goods available on the surface.

 

I really like outside world quests leading to a dungeon--still optional, but feels more natural. There were at least three ways to get into Durlag's Tower, I think, not including just waltzing in the front door. Watcher's Keep was rather isolated and felt tacked on, but that may not matter to some people anyway. I'd like some depth to the enemies in relation to backstory, although this depends heavily on what's intended for the narrative, of course (e.g. the despairing monster in DT from whom you learned stuff).

 

3. For different classes such as ciphers or wizards, they may meet extremely powerful NPCs that may give them access to powers which they may not acquire elsewhere.

 

I'm hesitant on this only from the balancing perspective; these "special powers" would have to be pretty special to traverse a mega dungeon for acquisition, but at the same time they can't make such a big difference as to out-power regular skills you acquire out in the world. I'd rather stick with the traditional loot in that case, but I suppose if these powers only make a difference at the optional difficulty levels for boss fights...

Edited October 5, 2012 by Ieo

[diablo169]

Follow the same basic premise as watchers keep, overarcing theme to the dungeon with a big big bad at the end. BUT make each level wholly unique and different.

[Osvir]

http://en.wikipedia....s#The_Labyrinth

Is the labyrinth called Tartarus?

 

Anyways, yeah that. That's something I would like to see, an ever shaping mind tricking evil mega dungeon that shapes by your decisions in it.

 

* Portal 1&2

 

"The Cube" (Movie) is another example is it not?

 

EDIT:

 

No science fiction!! Imagine a Portal-esque dungeon set in a Medieval setting <3 ~ simply beautiful.

 

I would love to see like, realistic illusion. From your point of view you see one path, when in fact it is a free fall pit. But by the use of a spell or your Thief/Mage notices that something is off (Or have an anomaly in it so that the player can notice it if your character's can not).

 

Graphically you would see the path, but if you notice it and can "dispell" it, some blurry fog would blur away and a pit would take it's place.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Osvir

[kirottu]

How about a mega dungeon that would have both tower and dungeon levels? And tower boss and dungeon boss would be in war with each other. Our adventure party could go all out in yojimbo style.

[agewisdom]

I would prefer if there's an interesting lore and sidequests to back up the exploration. This could include:

 

1. An archaelogical expedition sidequest where the PC finds information about the lost remnants of an ancient civilization. The deeper he goes down the levels, the more knowledge he obtains. This may lead to shedding some lights on some ancient mysteries that have plagued many scholars in the PE setting.

 

2. A mixture of sentient monsters banding together to form a cohesive faction in the deeper levels. They may not be necessarily antagonistic to the PC. As the PC go deepers in the levels and they find the PC worthy of respect, they may approach him to discuss about trading/safe passage etc. Perhaps these could lead to a profitable trading relationship where items in the mega dungeon such as gems could be traded for goods available on the surface.

 

I really like outside world quests leading to a dungeon--still optional, but feels more natural. There were at least three ways to get into Durlag's Tower, I think, not including just waltzing in the front door. Watcher's Keep was rather isolated and felt tacked on, but that may not matter to some people anyway. I'd like some depth to the enemies in relation to backstory, although this depends heavily on what's intended for the narrative, of course (e.g. the despairing monster in DT from whom you learned stuff).

 

3. For different classes such as ciphers or wizards, they may meet extremely powerful NPCs that may give them access to powers which they may not acquire elsewhere.

 

I'm hesitant on this only from the balancing perspective; these "special powers" would have to be pretty special to traverse a mega dungeon for acquisition, but at the same time they can't make such a big difference as to out-power regular skills you acquire out in the world. I'd rather stick with the traditional loot in that case, but I suppose if these powers only make a difference at the optional difficulty levels for boss fights...

 

1. Yes, having an outside world quest makes more sense. This would allow for Obsidian to forewarn the PC about the dangers in the mega dungeon and give hints as to whether they are ready or not. The quest giver could tell them that he thinks they're not powerful enough or need to be better equipped. If they're at Level 2 or less, he might even scoff at them...

 

2. Maybe some special abilites or item that will scale accordingly with the PC as he levels up? From the Kickstarter description, it appears that pretty powerful souls inhabit the mega-dungeon, so there should be some special reward for all the hard work in progressing through the dungeons.

[curryinahurry]

How about a mega dungeon that would have both tower and dungeon levels? And tower boss and dungeon boss would be in war with each other. Our adventure party could go all out in yojimbo style.

 

That's great, but I would like (depending on how many levels we get to), something truly ancient and alien as the main animating force behind this dungeon. Maybe finding a way past these foes can open up the real depths below; or the real prize is something deeper in the dungeon that the two enemies are both vying for.

[Jaesun]

THAT would be Fabulous kirottu!

[Monte Carlo]

Yeah, internecine dungeon warfare. I like.

 

That way the adventurers could actually live in the dungeon for a bit, with the side they've taken. Maybe they could trade with the dungeon inhabitants and learn skills and feats, become like special forces snake-eaters living out in the wilds. Imagine if, living with a tribe of savage humanoids, they taught you some tribal magic, you got tattoos and piercings, learnt their lore and it impacted on other creatures of that type you met elsewhere.

 

A bit like Ron Burgundy's dog, who makes friends with the bears.

[Tigranes]

Anything like Durlag's Tower will do me. Full of traps that actually make you afraid to search the next room for fear of chunky death. And a mini C&C arc where the choices you made on how to get past the various barriers in the earlier levels has a big impact on the final confrontation / resolution.

[Ieo]

2. Maybe some special abilites or item that will scale accordingly with the PC as he levels up? From the Kickstarter description, it appears that pretty powerful souls inhabit the mega-dungeon, so there should be some special reward for all the hard work in progressing through the dungeons.

 

I think the key in terms of balance is to ensure the additional class powers don't make external content too trivial and players don't feel they must complete the dungeon to handle other content. But yeah, basically there must be good rewards at the end. I think in terms of combat, people are pretty much expecting the same category of difficulty for a mega dungeon. But the narrative is the part that gets me hooked to even go inside--mere loot isn't enough for me.

[norolim]

I want level 3.

[Metabot]

I would prefer if there's an interesting lore and sidequests to back up the exploration. This could include:

 

1. An archaelogical expedition sidequest where the PC finds information about the lost remnants of an ancient civilization. The deeper he goes down the levels, the more knowledge he obtains. This may lead to shedding some lights on some ancient mysteries that have plagued many scholars in the PE setting.

 

2. A mixture of sentient monsters banding together to form a cohesive faction in the deeper levels. They may not be necessarily antagonistic to the PC. As the PC go deepers in the levels and they find the PC worthy of respect, they may approach him to discuss about trading/safe passage etc. Perhaps these could lead to a profitable trading relationship where items in the mega dungeon such as gems could be traded for goods available on the surface.

 

3. For different classes such as ciphers or wizards, they may meet extremely powerful NPCs that may give them access to powers which they may not acquire elsewhere.

 

I like the idea of number 3 especially.

[Enoch]

Anything like Durlag's Tower will do me. Full of traps that actually make you afraid to search the next room for fear of chunky death.

 

See, that's what I HATED about Durlag's. I never got any further than the 2nd dungeon level because all the "walk into each room one step at a time and wait for the red outline to appear" makes those maps so incredibly tedious.

 

Making the player nervous is fine. Making the player bored is unforgiveable. The traps in Durlag's did the latter.

[Monte Carlo]

Is there any way to randomize traps for replayability.

 

Also, a dev-type question: how tough is it to implement genuine Wandering Monster tables?

 

Wandering Monsters are cool.

[agewisdom]

Anything like Durlag's Tower will do me. Full of traps that actually make you afraid to search the next room for fear of chunky death.

 

See, that's what I HATED about Durlag's. I never got any further than the 2nd dungeon level because all the "walk into each room one step at a time and wait for the red outline to appear" makes those maps so incredibly tedious.

 

Making the player nervous is fine. Making the player bored is unforgiveable. The traps in Durlag's did the latter.

 

I agree partly with this. It would be preferable if the mega-dungeon was treated as an eco-system of its' own, rather than purely a monster lair. It doesn't quite make sense for every area to be littered with booby traps and monsters. After all, why would the inhabitants of these places put these traps all over the place? Any careless moves by the inhabitants of the dungeon would cause them to hurt themselves or their allies.

 

It would be better if these so called dangerous areas were placed in strategic areas. For instance, at the entrance of each main areas or narrow chokepoints guarded by sentries. This would minimize the annoyance factor.

Edited October 5, 2012 by agewisdom