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[AGX-17]

 

 

So much butthurt in the comments Try doing that on easy mode in Ninja Gaiden and you'll be dead within in 10 seconds. And i don't buy the "you're BATMAN"-argument either, that's just a moot point that sidesteps the issue itself.

 

Are you talking about the youtube comments, or thread replies here? Because nobody here has argued that AA is a "hardcore" game or that it's comparable to Ninja Gaiden.

Edited October 14, 2012 by AGX-17

[Fighter]

*sigh*

 

Everything is wrong with that idea.

 

No. Nothing is.

[Meshugger]

 

 

So much butthurt in the comments Try doing that on easy mode in Ninja Gaiden and you'll be dead within in 10 seconds. And i don't buy the "you're BATMAN"-argument either, that's just a moot point that sidesteps the issue itself.

 

Are you talking about the youtube comments, or thread replies here? Because nobody here has argued that AA is a "hardcore" game or that it's comparable to Ninja Gaiden.

 

The youtube comments.

 

Ninja Gaiden is only hardcore on "Hard"-mode or higher, everything else standard. The "hardcore"-gameplay is only to keep the hype buzz flowing for the cretins.

[Meshugger]

*sigh*

 

Everything is wrong with that idea.

 

No. Nothing is.

 

Of course it is.

 

Playing a game requires a challenge to begin with. It's like saying that a sound democracy doesn't require a well informed public.

[Hurlshort]

The only requirement for a game is that it is fun. Also challenging is a very elastic criteria, obviously a lot of people enjoy the challenge of putting together different combos in the Batman games, even though they are not highly difficult like Ninja Gaiden.

[Meshugger]

Oh come on, you got have some standards?

 

I fail to see the fun in winning without effort.

[Fighter]

Playing a game requires a challenge to begin with.

 

No it really doesn't.

 

This logic would mean that for example Planescape Torment is a terrible game because many of the potential enemies you don't have to fight at all. You just click the rather obvious dialogue option and you're done. Challenge non-existent and yet far more engaging.

 

AC combat is fun. It's perhaps the closest a game came to making you feel like you've just created your own movie scene if you do it well.

 

Oh come on, you got have some standards?

 

As a standard: enjoyment > difficulty.

[Orogun01]

The only requirement for a game is that it is fun. Also challenging is a very elastic criteria, obviously a lot of people enjoy the challenge of putting together different combos in the Batman games, even though they are not highly difficult like Ninja Gaiden.

I never found much challenge on just constantly pressing 2 buttons to attack or counter and then eventually using a special takedown. The combat system didn't have much depth and the gadgets didn't bring much to it but what they did and they did it well, was style. In the end it tied with the whole batman experience and an in depth combat system doesn't mesh well with a sandbox game, so I can't fault their choices.

[Fighter]

I never found much challenge on just constantly pressing 2 buttons to attack or counter and then eventually using a special takedown.

 

Then you missed the other moves that exist.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Fighter

[Orogun01]

I never found much challenge on just constantly pressing 2 buttons to attack or counter and then eventually using a special takedown.

 

Then you missed the other moves that exist.

Such as?

[alanschu]

The only requirement for a game is that it is fun. Also challenging is a very elastic criteria, obviously a lot of people enjoy the challenge of putting together different combos in the Batman games, even though they are not highly difficult like Ninja Gaiden.

 

This. Batman's combat is insanely fun and well done. If you are disappointed because you can get through it only spamming two buttons, I daresay you've let yourself down as a gamer as for me the challenge isn't winning the fight, but getting 30+ combo bonus with 9x variation bonus.

 

Heck, I explicitly play the beat 'em up challenge mode because the combat is so much fun. Yes, I can probably win the combat just using attack and counterattack, but that's less fun. Why on Earth would I sabotage my own gameplay?

 

I'm seriously starting to think that because some of the older games pretty much required the use of some sort of "I win" gimmick, that many of the oldschoolers frankly cannot help themselves from exploiting it. If you only used two buttons in Batman's combat, you actively denied yourself some very fun moments in the game. That seems counterproductive, but I guess for some people the end goal is simply "can I get to the end?"

[Majek]

I'd love to play Ninja Gaiden without UTs but with Batmans free flow combat. And not being forced to rely on i-frames on "hardcore" difficulties. It gets boring.

[alanschu]

That seems counterproductive, but I guess for some people the end goal is simply "can I get to the end?"

 

To quote myself, I actually was thinking it's probably more akin to the old schoolers losing the feeling: "I got to the end, and because of that I feel special."

[pmp10]

That seems counterproductive, but I guess for some people the end goal is simply "can I get to the end?"

 

To quote myself, I actually was thinking it's probably more akin to the old schoolers losing the feeling: "I got to the end, and because of that I feel special."

All games are about sense of accomplishment gained from beating challenges.

Unless of course you play a batman/ac game for it's 'storyline'.

[alanschu]

All games are about sense of accomplishment gained from beating challenges.

Unless of course you play a batman/ac game for it's 'storyline'.

 

If you're looking for a sense of accomplishment for beating challenges, why is that person playing on Normal in a game that very clearly has variable difficulty?

 

I played through the Arkham games as it was a combination of a fun comic book narrative with some fun exploration and a really fun combat system that greatly rewards doing kickass and varied moves through the game.

 

if you find the game too easy/mindless and you aren't playing on the hardest difficulty, I think the argument is severely undermined. How dare they make games where the default difficulty is too easy for me.

 

 

Anyone that finds Batman's combat boring has distilled it down to something utilitarian in a way of "What's a way for me to get through the combat without putting in much thought?" It's neither optimal (I guarantee that I'll have less health issues than that chap), and by his own admission is not very much fun.

 

 

Unless the point about modern games that he hates are the dip****s that mash two buttons (which in this case, is himself).

 

Nevermind the fact that he's still utilizing an early game battle where, I'm sorry "old school gamer," is still going to be introducing many people to the combat system. Making it prohibitively hard and requiring moves that the player may still be getting familiar with within the first 30 minutes of the game is a great way to create barriers of entry. Fortunately, there's a higher difficulty level that's more punitive for making mistakes and playing suboptimally.

 

 

He also mentioned a game like Contra. At this point it's probably important to point out that games back then were prohibitively difficult simply because the games themselves were not actually long, and that's how they made it more than a 1 hour long game. Compare the difficulty of Contra to the original Legend of Zelda (a game of actual length) and it's light years different. And Contra was a game that basically forced the player to fail in order to use that metaknowledge to succeed later on. It's basically a giant game of memorization. But it was hard to beat all right, and doing so without the need of a Konami code would certainly let someone feel special for doing so.

 

I think many people overlook that many games of the past are games that can easily be beaten in a single sitting (this is by necessity). Even games that did have passwords to restore your progress were not that long. A friend and I beat Megaman 2 in a single sitting not too long ago. It was pretty baffling just how much of the game I remember through all the trial and error I needed back in the day. My friend was even able to survive Quickman's lasers without Flashman's freeze ability on his very first attempt... over a decade after last playing the game! (Something I had never done ever!)

Edited October 15, 2012 by alanschu

[alanschu]

Note: If you're looking for a game that is difficult, go pick up XCOM and start the Impossible/Ironman game mode. As a modern game, surely no old schooler would have any problems at all beating it, right?

[Hurlshort]

Note: If you're looking for a game that is difficult, go pick up XCOM and start the Impossible/Ironman game mode. As a modern game, surely no old schooler would have any problems at all beating it, right?

 

That's the thing, I love the challenge of a good turn based strategy game because I have time to think and, um, strategize.

 

I'm happy playing my action games on easy. I usually am playing it for the story and the exploration, not for the challenge of each fight. If it's too challenging, I'll simply get frustrated and play something else. I want to make consistent progress, not hit a brick wall.

[pmp10]

All games are about sense of accomplishment gained from beating challenges.

Unless of course you play a batman/ac game for it's 'storyline'.

 

If you're looking for a sense of accomplishment for beating challenges, why is that person playing on Normal in a game that very clearly has variable difficulty?

I did mean hard difficulty and assasins creed games have no difficulty setting whatsoever.

The point isn't that the combat isn't difficult (given enough guns that ignore lines of fire any fight can be) but that it's terribly shallow for the sake of a spectacle.

Certainly going back to contra days would not be an improvement.

Note: If you're looking for a game that is difficult, go pick up XCOM and start the Impossible/Ironman game mode. As a modern game, surely no old schooler would have any problems at all beating it, right?

Not everybody is interested in the remake for variety of reasons.

[Labadal]

Peopoe still arguing about the Batman video? It was funny, but it didn't look fun to play. The Arkham games are all about crazy combinations. Getting up to a 50+ felt great.

[alanschu]

The point isn't that the combat isn't difficult (given enough guns that ignore lines of fire any fight can be) but that it's terribly shallow for the sake of a spectacle.

 

The fighting in Batman is not shallow. That you can win on an easier difficulty by pressing two buttons in an early game combat does not make it shallow. If you want the true spectacle of Batman's combat, you better darn well learn to play the game proper. As Labadal indicated, what he did didn't look particularly interesting at all. Unless the "spectacle" of Batman punching the air qualifies as a spectacle.

 

I'd argue that his point was that the combat was trivial, however.

 

Not everybody is interested in the remake for variety of reasons.

 

So you game for more than just the challenge then, right? Because I daresay that Ironman Impossible is probably the most challenging thing in gaming in quite some time.

Edited October 16, 2012 by alanschu

[pmp10]

 

So you game for more than just the challenge then, right? Because I daresay that Ironman Impossible is probably the most challenging thing in gaming in quite some time.

Yes - complexity of the challenge is important to me.

And when I see that remake goes from 26 soldiers to 6 I lose interests.

[Nepenthe]

So you game for more than just the challenge then, right? Because I daresay that Ironman Impossible is probably the most challenging thing in gaming in quite some time.

Yes - complexity of the challenge is important to me.

And when I see that remake goes from 26 soldiers to 6 I lose interests.

roflmao

[HoonDing]

I thought the point of combat in Arkham City was discovering at how many angles Catwoman could wring her petite body. So I pressed as many buttons as I could.

[Morgoth]

I thought the point of combat in Arkham City was discovering at how many angles Catwoman could wring her petite body. So I pressed as many buttons as I could.

 

This.

[Lexx]

There was other content in the game?