Rarity of magic items?

[nikolokolus]

One way to bypass the constant cycling through loot upgrades is to have items with lore and powers that only gradually get revealed through long use and research.

 

Get rid of identify spells that reveal every known fact about an item, but only partially reveal history and properties and they could deeply enrich and characterize magical items and make them personal to a character.

 

This could be used in conjunction with special materials to make items varied but save true magic for the really powerful items in the game. I did this with PnP games I GMed and most players responded really positively.

[descalabro]

The problem with very rare magic items is that they would not go too well with the setting, which definitely is not a rare/low magic setting. The other is that you would have to implement some sort of different tiers of non-magic items. Because it will be rather bland if my first shield will be also the one with which I will end up a game...

 

 

1) I don't see how. It was never said that hte setting is swimming in magic

 

2) Why would it be bland? Plenty of games feature exactly that. I hate the notion that CRPG are becoming so loot-centric. I guess it's the MMO/Diablo influence.

That mastercrafted sword I had made by the master smith in town? It served me trough the game faithfully. Why should it be "bland"? A weapon that served your from beginning to end..that fact alone makes it legendary.

Even better if you can customize such weapons (apperance) or simply because you wielded it for so long, you get a bonus to it because you're so familiar with it (easily done by tracking number of kills/strikes for a specific weapon)

 

I agree with Darkpriest, having the same magical gear during the whole game gets tiresome. It feels great to find magical items, even when they are cursed or your race/class can't use them. You read the description and you feel it's an awesome item, but you later realize that item was nothing when compared to other ones you end up getting. It's also cool having to decide which magical item to use for each situation, and having to decide which magical items to sell, because sometimes an item is so cool you hesitate on selling it even if it's not that powerful. I usually prefer items which have some kind of power (fire, ice, acid, enchantments, etc) besides the + atributes. So it's also a matter of combat strategy; I remember once playing a Black Isle game in which you had to switch to normal items because that particular beast couldn't be killed with magical items, and that added a clever touch to the game.

 

In IWD it made more sense to have magical items because normal ones got broken with use.

 

In BG2 you would find a lot of them, but you still felt great satisfaction when there was one that could be of some use instead of being just one more magical item. Lower level magical items became a burden at higher levels, and that also made things interesting.

 

Besides, if the game is well balanced, and has the right amount of magical items, and the right difficulty getting them, they will only make the game more interesting, and I don't really see a problem if you end up with a lot of them as long as they are relevant and fulfill the gameplay advantages I described. Magical items can make some truly epic battles where you have to consider them for strategy purposes.

[descalabro]

Can I get a choice between rare and abundant, please?

 

Same here.

[descalabro]

I would like master crafted items to actually mean something. In most games if it is not magical it is vendor trash.

 

Yes, I completely agree. It felt so frustrating to beat some hard challenge so I could obtain the materials to craft an item that sometimes I kept it just for the sake of it. I would eventually sell it, but it really was frustrating.

[Arhiippa]

It should of course depend on the setting and how magic items are created in the world. If the creation process isn't too arduous, I don't have a problem with there being lots of enchanted items. However, I don't want to see any numerics in their names. Since the names are part of the in-game world, it seems quite ridiculous to have something called a +2 long sword. +2 what? But if the creation process is more demanding, and with very powerful items in any case, I only want to see items with good backstories and they shouldn't be around every corner.

 

I also liked the idea that using the same weapon or weapons of similar style would give the character some sorts of bonuses from expertise. It shouldn't be too hard to implement and would give characters, and their favorite items, more personal flavor.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Arhiippa

[Utukka]

Always liked BG2:shadows of amn style, also loved Diablo 1 and 2 but the huge waves of trash did become excessive. The one thing I will agree with that others have stated, I'd prefer the magical items add to a "power". Instead of just being +1 +2 +3 +4 etc etc, I'd much rather see them add elemental damage(if you must add increased damage) or effects such as sleep/charm/cast "x" on hit etc etc etc.

[Daulmakan]

While I can appreciate the "standing out" of an item due to general rarity, I think such impact is overstated. I remember my whole party equipped with magic items in PS:T and the game wasn't worse for it at all. BG1 had plenty of generic magical armor and weapons for everyone. BG2 was abundant with magical items of every nature (and even the discarded items were good for background lore by reading the descriptions). IWD was somewhere in between BG1 and BG2. Since P:E is said to be of a low-medium level scale, BG1 or IWD magic item rarity would be my preferred choice.

 

Also, what would be an example of a party-RPG where everyone doesn't get magical weapons and armor? Can't recall any at moment.

[Christliar]

I think BG1 had it about right, although SLIGHTLY more magical items wouldn't go amiss, something like 2-3 people in the party (including you) should have all slots filled with magical armor while the rest have 2-3 slots of mundane gear and everything else magical. Tripping over magical items isn't something I find fun or engaging, because then the items lose their charm. If it's a loooong game I want to ruin a perfectly good pair of underpants when I find my first magic item ;d then the rest should be rare and spread out, but not like the first one.

 

I also don't want to go into ridiculous numbers by the end like 10k+ crit, that's just absurd and unnecessary.

[motorizer]

I dont want to see powerful magic items for sale in powerful magic item shops.....it just trivialises them, and if the storyline features a major threat to existence then surely people would have bought them all up

 

maybe a few trinkets but there shouldn't be legendary items in shops, or if there is then there should be a chance they are fakes

 

I'd also like the damge and combat effectiveness to be more about your character than your gear, though its actually like that in most RPGs, you think you need that +5 sword but actually you can usually get by with basic stuff, and so it should be, the good stuff should give an advantage but it shouldn't be absolutely necessary

Edited October 19, 2012 by motorizer

[temporalTemptation]

One problem I've had with a lot of games is the eceonomy. Yes, I know that that's a silly thing to say, but hear me out. You go into a shop that sells gear, they're selling your usual swords, axes and so forth for a few gold each. Then you look at their magical weapons, each sold for hundreds, perhaps thousands of gold. Evertime I buy or sell something like that, I'm afraid that I'm destroying the local economy. I mean, from what I've seen, that +1 longsword I've been using to hit goblins with could easily be used to raise enough money to feed a village for a year.

 

The solution to this would be to either make magical artefacts very rare and very notable or very common and kinda just there. I'd go for the latter, as it would help make me feel that magic is incorporated into the world. People walk around with rings and amulets that give a very slight protection against poison or disease. Some people wear cloaks that are magically toughened and made more durable. Some people might even be lucky enough to get their hands on some boots that make them run just that little bit faster.

 

There are risks with this, people could forever be switching their gear, given too much choice; but the potential gain is also high. It gives you more customisation with what you have. Instead of trying to get the most pluses to your weapons and armour, you might have to think in terms of what is tactically appropriate. One might need to decide whether they want to be light and stealthy or strong and immovable. Also, there'd be a much slower increase in the strength and value of one's gear. Again, there'd be large pitfalls in terms of people stopping every five minutes to work out if +7.6% cold resistance is much better than +7.4% fire resistance; but I'd be able to sleep easy knowing that I wasn't wrecking the local economy all the time.

[kabaliero]

Magic items should be rare and expensive. But not easily sold to traders!

[ArcaneBoozery]

This is one of the many reasons why I LOVE Baldur's Gate 1. To this day, it was the game that had the most fun, for me, item model. Not only were magic items rare, but even good non-magic items took a while to find and cost a fortune. Anyone remember finding a suit of plate mail in Beregost going for like 900 gold? or the full plate mail for 9000g. I savored saving up that much dough for my warrior character. Took a while too. And magic items were truly rare, and also special. Many had unique characteristics as opposed to just more damage/stats, and all had a well written background story which was a delight to read. Some of the more powerful ones even had serious setbacks that made them unusable. Remember that 2 handed sword +3 that made you go berserk? This kind of item distribution makes the player really appreciate great items, and makes finding something special truly feel like an achievement, contrasted with the more modern model where magic crap drops all over you.

[UncleBourbon]

I think there is a distinct lack of true, low-fantasy cRPGs. I'd like to see more "well-made" or "made-to-order" equipment with some superior aspect (lower weight, better fitting?) and maybe a few, truly amazing magical pieces of equipment.

[rjshae]

If people really want rare magic, then it might help play a little for the developers to provide more grades of craftmanship and metallurgy for the non-magical items. Start with ordinary iron for a sword, then improve it to steel, followed by damascus steel, and on to dwarven alloyed steel. At the pinnacle of conventional development, dweomer-forged steel is made using magical techniques but is otherwise an ordinary weapon. Masterwork weapons can then be further improved by endowing them with magical powers that draw upon the soul of the wielder.

 

To make this work though, it would seem like weapon improvements would need smaller bonus increments. That would entail using percentiles rather than d20 bonuses for attack and damage calculation.

 

Similar logic with armor; better materials and improved crafting techniques yield more effective defense and armor ratings.

[Drakxii]

Magic items were rare and special. By the time I reached the game end, I didn't have a magic item in every slot for everyone.

 

Uhh want that... but that isn't an option. I want everyone in my party to have a magic item or two but not every slot filled.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I particularly enjoy low magic settings because not only does it become more difficult for classes to act outside of their roles, but it increases the importance of their individual roles. High magic often allows classes to be able to stand alone and make many things irrelevant.

 

In a low magic setting:

• Skills become critically important. With the easy button of magic done, skills are your best recourse.
  
• Support classes are desperately needed AS support. Items don't make you invulnerable, and potions aren't falling from the sky.
  
• A spellcaster's spells are covetously valuable, and can actually make an impact in the emergency and unique scenarios when they are needed.
  
• Fighters are valuable because they are capable of enduring rigors of battle--not merely because they are the best platform for L33tz Gear.
  

In a high magic setting:

• Skills/Class/Ability are almost irrelevant beyond flavor. There is an item for it, or an inexhuastible well of spells for that.
  

 

Low magic settings produce archetypes, roles, and and the need for parties which cooperate. I find this far more interesting.

[Nidrolok]

I'd really like magic infused items to be very rare and hard to come by. You could also make them more interesting by making them be taxing on the bearer and give several penalties whilst strengthening the character in other areas or just be potentially dangerous when used. The possibilities are a great many and I hope that Obsidian does something interesting mechanically and lore wise with them.

 

 

Low magic settings produce archetypes, roles, and and the need for parties which cooperate. I find this far more interesting.

Most importantly of all it keeps magic being magical and special. If every schmuck and his dog got an magical ring or a sword it devalues them greatly and makes them a lot less interesting in the process. It also keeps the crafting system interesting since a better quality item will make more of a difference if they aren't magically enhanced. Edited October 20, 2012 by Nidrolok

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Also, to compare BG1 to BG2 or TOB is silly since the level differences is huge.

 

What does level have to do with anything?

 

Unless oyu think that being a higher level automaticly means you MUST run into more magical tiems..because..why?

The gods themselves put them in your path?

What does the wrold care what "level" you are?

 

What NOT run into a legendary magical items early on? Why NOT run into completely mundane weapons late game?

 

Waht you propose is exactlx the opposite of good atmosphere - scaling for scalings own sake. Nothing more than ego and greed appeasing.

 

More powerful characters have more resources. Powerful entities are more likely to have significant conflict with other powerful entities than with those significantly weaker and lesser resources. An archmage has no need or business going into your average Kobold Den, but an apprentice does. An apprentice would be ill advised and have no real business travelling the planes, but and archmage does.

 

Magic items should be proportionate to the encounter. More powerful characters are more likely to experience more powerful foes and encounters. The inverse is true for less powerful characters. It is possible for your level 1 Paladin to aquire a Holy Avenger, but it is not only improbable, but typically makes for imbalanced and poor game design.

[Shevek]

Its hip and cool to cry for low magic worlds where the Earth splits open at the mere glimpse of your +1 dagger but deep down we all love the Monty Hall beauty of BG2 and the IWD games.

[Ryusenkai]

Speaking as both a Gamer and an avid Role Player, I tend to prefer that magical items be a rare specialty that one comes across only after great hardship, luck, or exploration. It feels not only more realistic, but also so incredibly satisfying when you actually do claim said piece of gear and learn the story behind it. You earned the right to use said item. In the grand scheme of things, in terms of legendary weapons anyway, you're just another wielder added to the list in the item's illustrious history before it's lost once more only to be found again years later.

[UncleBourbon]

I also wouldn't mind some variation between masterfully crafted weapons, magically enchanted weapons and divinely/infernally blessed weapons. The latter of which could grow with the character or feed off them.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

I didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I feel that a good part of the fun of rpgs is in the gear progression as well as character progression. While that progression doesn't have to be magical in nature, and it should be slower paced in time with slower leveling, I still think it's an important part of rpgs. Depending on the level of magic I'm not against low level enchantments being fairly common, as long the more robust enchantments are rare.

[Sensuki]

I completed MY playtrough recently too and I recall distinctly that half of my party had completely mundane armor and weapons.

I dunno if you played wiht mods, or with a walktrough to get every single last item in-game, but BG1 has the smallest number of magical items of all BG games.

 

The only items where you wouldnt have a magic item in every slot would be belts (3 uncursed) and *maybe* rings or boots, depending on how thorough you were. And of course armor, there was magic armor for everyone but as previously mentioned - Full Plate with a ring/cloak of protection was better.

[HansKrSG]

I think your poll doesn't have enough choices, its either low or high or damn high, no middle ground.

[zayoss]

I'm glad someone started this poll. I chose the rarer of the three options.

 

The $2.4m stretch goal was for crafting and enchanting. In my opinion, I would like to see the PC's party be able to delve into crafting right from the beginning. Enchanting, as much as I love to do it, I almost feel we should do without. If we simply must have it, I would prefer it to arrive as an available party-only practice towards the latter portions of the game, and not necessarily from any NPC source, at least not wholesale. It would feel more right- The mage-types among your party are well-travelled, and much more knowledgable than their early-game selves, as well a majority the various NPC wizards in cities and settlements. They've amassed the talent necessary to enhance certain items through their experiences.

 

As loot, I want magical items to nearly always feel special. I feel as though, whenever you looted a magical item, it should always be a clear upgrade to one of your characters. I only spent ~150h playing Diablo III, but that game really did a wonder in trivializing upgrades. There's little to no sense of achievement, or power gain, when the upgrades you find improve your damage by ~1%, or mitigate incoming damage by ~1/4%. You just don't have any feeling of reward when the benefit is that small.

 

As a sub-note about crafting: I would truly like to see this be a legitimate, worthwhile way to outfit your characters, yet not entirely at the expense of NPCs. Too often one is simply blown out of the water by the other. I know maintaining balance can be tricky, but it would feel so great if it worked right. Perhaps, in a similar tone to my idea regarding enchanting, as you progress (rather than strictly a grind-for-points method) through the game, NPC's wares start to wane in quality of craftsmaship when compared to your party's. You've been getting more talented and knowledgable, while those NPC's have been sitting in the corner of the local bazaar the entire time.