Kick it forward support?

[Darkpriest]

I say, go with Kicking it forward, once you have your franchise secured... like three games or so within the same setting.

 

I'd rather make them to use earnings for enhancement of future products, but first things first. This game and Wasteland 2 are like the most wanted games on my list... but for now I will enjoy things like X-COM: EU, CoH 2 and DotA 2, for other genres, while digging into BG enhanced edition once it will come out for the RPG goodiness.

[Shevek]

I already put forward my pledge. The devs best not decide to use my dollars for another project after the fact. That is misappropriation of funds and I would demand a refund.

 

I pledged my dollars for this project and this project only.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Shevek

[Darkpriest]

I already put forward my pledge. The devs best not decide to use my dollars for another project after the fact. That is misappropriation of funds and I would demand a refund.

 

I pledged my dollars for this project and this project only.

 

I think you misunderstand the concept...

 

They will not share with the gathered money, but once the game is produced and in distribution - somewhere in 2014 - then they will share with a percentage (5%) of their profits (revenues minus production costs and direct overhead expenses) from the game.

 

Don't need to be worry about the current kickstarter funds.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Darkpriest

[Shevek]

Wow, if thats the case, its not a legal issue I suppose. I stand corrected.

 

I would advise Obsidian against that, however. I would rather they take their profits and make more PE sequels and expansions. That would help both them continue to grow as a company that work independent of the publishing system while also providing us more more quality isometric rpg titles.

[Zverd]

If they have a negative profit, does this mean they get money?

[nikolokolus]

If they have a negative profit, does this mean they get money?

 

LOL. that would be hilarious.

 

"Hello intrepid game developer, we've recently noticed you have started a kickstarter campaign. We are excited to see what you can do and would like to share our loss with you. Please make checks payable to Feargus Urquhart, et. al. Thank you and good luck."

[Sordel]

While it's great that P: E is doing well, the Kickstarter will not fund the game complete ... Obsidian will have to find significant further investment, so there is no way that they arhe rolling in cash from this.

 

And you know this how?

 

I believe it, based on the costs of game development. Take a look at:

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/07/02/the-rise-of-costs-the-fall-of-gaming/

 

P:E isn't Max Payne 3, but neither is it a little Indie game being coded by one guy ... it's very serious money. The Kickstarter money is really what they thought they could get to kick-start development; by the time you factor in marketing, this is going to be an expensive game to develop, so don't think that the guys are Obsidian are thinking that it's game over and they've already won.

[Wintersong]

It's nice gesture but not needed. Not needed at all. Plus Obsidian (Fergus?) is already backing some projects (with their money). The guys from The Banner Saga were the same in that regard.

[Infinitron]

While it's great that P: E is doing well, the Kickstarter will not fund the game complete ... Obsidian will have to find significant further investment, so there is no way that they arhe rolling in cash from this.

 

And you know this how?

 

I believe it, based on the costs of game development. Take a look at:

http://www.notenough...fall-of-gaming/

 

P:E isn't Max Payne 3, but neither is it a little Indie game being coded by one guy ... it's very serious money. The Kickstarter money is really what they thought they could get to kick-start development; by the time you factor in marketing, this is going to be an expensive game to develop, so don't think that the guys are Obsidian are thinking that it's game over and they've already won.

 

That article isn't really relevant to this type of game. The Infinity Engine games had budgets of 4-5 million dollars. With modern tools they'd need less. And marketing? I'm not sure there will be any.

 

That said, it is true that Obsidian likely has alternate sources of funding to pay its employees' salaries. This isn't the only game they're making.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Infinitron

[nikolokolus]

While it's great that P: E is doing well, the Kickstarter will not fund the game complete ... Obsidian will have to find significant further investment, so there is no way that they arhe rolling in cash from this.

 

And you know this how?

 

I believe it, based on the costs of game development. Take a look at:

http://www.notenough...fall-of-gaming/

 

P:E isn't Max Payne 3, but neither is it a little Indie game being coded by one guy ... it's very serious money. The Kickstarter money is really what they thought they could get to kick-start development; by the time you factor in marketing, this is going to be an expensive game to develop, so don't think that the guys are Obsidian are thinking that it's game over and they've already won.

 

The thing is, it sounds like Obsidian truly intends to make the game they raise the capital for and nothing else. It's not like they have huge cash reserves and if South Park fails they could really be screwed.

 

Odds are that this will be a very modestly marketed game, relying heavily on social media and word of mouth. If they sell 100-300K copies at a $25-30 pricepoint it will be a nice success based on it's cost to develop, but it won't come anywhere close to being a mass market game.

[Infinitron]

South Park's failure or success has little bearing on Obsidian's future. They've already been paid to do the job, and they're not getting any royalties.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Infinitron

[Superdeluxe]

I would rather the profits from this game bank roll future games/expansions of this ip

[nikolokolus]

South Park's failure or success has little bearing on Obsidian's future. They've already been paid to do the job, and they're not getting any royalties.

 

Ah, I didn't realize that. well that's kind of a relief. If P:E works out maybe Obsidian can shift to a different development paradigm? Essentially becoming a sort of hybrid, AAA/Indie developer, focusing their efforts on smaller niche type games, but spending less capital on them. Less market penetration, but less risk overall and maybe a more sustainable business in the long run?

[Infinitron]

South Park's failure or success has little bearing on Obsidian's future. They've already been paid to do the job, and they're not getting any royalties.

 

Ah, I didn't realize that. well that's kind of a relief. If P:E works out maybe Obsidian can shift to a different development paradigm? Essentially becoming a sort of hybrid, AAA/Indie developer, focusing their efforts on smaller niche type games, but spending less capital on them. Less market penetration, but less risk overall and maybe a more sustainable business in the long run?

 

If they transition to that paradigm it won't be before P:E is released in 2014. Until then they'll have to continue making pitches to AAAs. Hopefully the good publicity from this project will help them with that.

[Parmenides]

Kicking it forward is nice. But I'm against making people feel guilty for not doing it. Now if a project was on the recieving end of kicking it forward, then I'd be inclined to say they should attempt to pass it along.

 

But with project eternity, if the money is going to some project, I'd rather see the money spent on another Obsidian project.

[Darkpriest]

While it's great that P: E is doing well, the Kickstarter will not fund the game complete ... Obsidian will have to find significant further investment, so there is no way that they arhe rolling in cash from this.

 

And you know this how?

 

I believe it, based on the costs of game development. Take a look at:

http://www.notenough...fall-of-gaming/

 

P:E isn't Max Payne 3, but neither is it a little Indie game being coded by one guy ... it's very serious money. The Kickstarter money is really what they thought they could get to kick-start development; by the time you factor in marketing, this is going to be an expensive game to develop, so don't think that the guys are Obsidian are thinking that it's game over and they've already won.

 

To be honest the financial drive in the gaming industry is one of the mysteries to me. I worked in other industries and one of the big question marks for me was "how the hell are they going to cover the operating costs, especially marketing costs... That's just insane... "

 

The "photo realism" in 3d titles requires a lot time. Ok so if the game gets bigger and with better graphics, the production costs will get bigger. Now the thing is... do you get to increase the staff and try for faster releases, but you risk landing on a hard red, or to you sustain smaller production teams and expand production cycles for each title and add a few lower budget titles in the mix for more niche markets... from my perspective the second options would seem more cost efficient...

 

I'd really like to get once into the management meeting of the gaming company and listen the reasoning behind some decisions... In the industry where I worked with management it was always about quantification of bottom line return on each action. If you want to get to that nice big conference, tell me what's the financial benefit. Are there no cheaper channels of building a product recognition and brand, etc. You are telling me that you will generate sales of "x" amount, I ask you "how do you want to achieve that?", not visions, but concrete actions, which can be measured and put into financial figures...

 

Gaming is an entertainment business, with a lot of creative and passionate people... But creativity and passion does not pay the bills.. you need some tangible plans that you ruthlessly execute with little to no deviations...

 

Bah... /rant

[Sordel]

Odds are that this will be a very modestly marketed game, relying heavily on social media and word of mouth. If they sell 100-300K copies at a $25-30 pricepoint it will be a nice success based on it's cost to develop, but it won't come anywhere close to being a mass market game.

 

I think you're wrong.

 

Don't forget, the Kickstarter community have all prepaid for their copies, so Obsidian just lost probably in the region of 50K sales to their key demographic: 'hardcore' RPG fans. On top of which, we all told everyone who would listen to us. That means that in order to turn this game into a profitable proposition, they are going to have to advertise, otherwise they just lost a lot of money.

 

That's why they're making the collectors' book & edition: to get eye-catching stuff into retailers etc.

 

They don't want to prove that this game can satisfy 50K people .... they want to prove that they can get sales for this genre of game that stack up against AAA titles.

[Volourn]

This is Obsidian which is a high standard AAA (or AA+) developer. 100-300k sales would have to be deemed a failure when they've had games sell in the millions. They have lots of employees to pay.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Volourn

[Knott]

If you look at Obsidian's kickstarter profile you can see that they've already begun to support other projects, so its a moot point to argue about this.

[Leferd]

This is Obsidian which is a high standard AAA (or AA+) developer. 100-300k sales would have to be deemed a failure when they've had games sell in the millions. They have lots of employees to pay.

 

They may be AAA developer but this isn't a AAA project. This doesn't have a AAA budget, and certainly won't have AAA distribution.

 

Even Steven Soderbergh makes small budget films that makes a profit in between his high budget blockbusters.

[Monkcrab]

While it's great that P: E is doing well, the Kickstarter will not fund the game complete ... Obsidian will have to find significant further investment, so there is no way that they arhe rolling in cash from this.

 

And you know this how?

 

I believe it, based on the costs of game development. Take a look at:

http://www.notenough...fall-of-gaming/

 

P:E isn't Max Payne 3, but neither is it a little Indie game being coded by one guy ... it's very serious money. The Kickstarter money is really what they thought they could get to kick-start development; by the time you factor in marketing, this is going to be an expensive game to develop, so don't think that the guys are Obsidian are thinking that it's game over and they've already won.

 

Those costs are going to be affected by the scope and technology you're doing it with, though.

 

IIRC Obsidian has stated on Kickstarter that 1.1 million is enough to do what they want to do, that oldschool RPG development with modern tools cost less, that they know how to budget. I'd like to take them at their word, since they're the one with experience in this and not me.

[nikolokolus]

This is Obsidian which is a high standard AAA (or AA+) developer. 100-300k sales would have to be deemed a failure when they've had games sell in the millions. They have lots of employees to pay.

 

That would be true if they were being paid to develop a high profile, big budget game, but that's not what this is. A "success" can be measured in a number of ways, raw sales figures isn't probably the best way for a small niche game, Return on investment by percentage on the other hand ...

[ilhdr]

Look at Torchlight. It begins small but now is big, very big. I hope this happens with Eternity too.

[rf5111918]

YES, absolutely. I think it is imperative to see Project Eternity participate in this because I believe this can become the greatest selling game of all time and even 1% of the profits it makes may fund many AAA titles independent from the jaws of publishers. This might help get us one step closer to living in a world where game developers are free from the oppression and tyranny of publishers.

 

Absolutely not. No one knows how much money this game is going to make.

[Merin]

People need to understand -

 

If a Kickstarter campaign succeeds, the project is already funded.

 

The only "failure" would be in the devs not finishing the game. Possibly a lesser success would be going over budget.

 

But everyone is paid once the Kickstarter is successful, and there are no investors to pay back.

 

Every game sold after the game is finished is pretty much pure profit.

 

So everyone worried about needing more funding, or Obsidian having to pay their staff, etc.

 

It's covered.

 

As for advertising and marketing... if they were doing their budgeting properly, that was also figured into their goals. AND once they are successful they get pretty much free publicity that the press will give for them succeeded - both at the end of the campaign, and on release of the game.

 

---

 

Kicking it Forward is voluntary. It's an "on your honor" system. Everyone talking about "guilt" or "required" needs to take a deep breath and ask themselves if they felt "guilted" or "required" to donate to Obsidian's Kickstarter just because they were fans of Obsidian? It's not a perfect analogy, but still.

 

No one is saying they HAVE TO. Some of us think it would be a good idea if they decided to.