Random stats or Bought Stats?

[PsychoBlonde]

Now, I will admit straight out that I am a total stat hoe--I am that person who will sit there clicking the "reroll" button in Baldur's Gate until I (this really happened) get a set that looks like this: 17 18 18 18 18 18, and then when I take a point out of int and put it in Str I wound up with 18(97) 18 18 17 18 18. I am not kidding. I am that freakin' nuts about this. I don't generally like point-buy systems that much in single-player games because they limit my ability to do this. Granted, they also mean I'm not sitting there clicking the button for half an hour before I can start playing the game, so I can live with it.

 

Still, I'd like to hear other people's preferences! Assuming we have "starting stats" of some kind, how would YOU prefer to generate them?

[ownagefool]

I remember re-rolling in BG and I think this is a negative thing. It also does seem a bit silly that your stats wont adjust based on your experience, thus one of the latter options seems better (assuming its well implemented).

[eimatshya]

In pen and paper games, I prefer point buy systems because you don't get rerolls like in BG. In computer games I'm on the fence. Rerolling allows you to get better stats than with a point buy system, but I also feel kind of guilty about gaming the system (which is stupid, I know, since it's a single player game, and it's not like my party mates will be feeling upstaged by my character's superior stats). So really, I don't have a preference. On the up side, someone will surely make a save editor for the game at some point, and it will be possible to give your character whatever stats you want, so in the long run, the character creation process may not be a major concern.

[Jaesun]

Point buy with NO random.

[limaxophobiacq]

Straight point buy. Also it might not be completely on-topic but I'd like it if the game was set up so there's no single overwhelmingly optimal choice in stats for each class. Obviously a warrior with low strength or a mage with low intelligence (if intelligence even is what determines how powerfull spellcasting is in this game) wont be great, but I don't want to feel like I'm crippling my character as a warrior just for having a few point less than max strength to have a character who is also somewhat clever and charming.

Edited September 21, 2012 by limaxophobiacq

[PsychoBlonde]

Also it might not be completely on-topic but I'd like it if the game was set up so there's no single overwhelmingly optimal choice in stats for each class. Obviously a warrior with low strength or a mage with low intelligence (if intelligence even is what determines how powerfull spellcasting is in this game) wont be great, but I don't want to feel like I'm crippling my character as a warrior just for having a few point less than max strength to have a character who is also somewhat clever and charming.

 

I am SO on board with this, in fact, I'd like to see options where you can theoretically make a really good Int-based "fighter" or a strength-based "mage", but you might get other limitations like there are only 3 types of weapons you can really use well or similar. I love making weird builds, and the more available the happier I am.

[Jozape]

Random stats are nice as an option, but if it's one or the other, I vastly prefer a point-buy system as I usually have a specific character in mind that I would like to play or try.

[kenup]

Point buy. I like tinkering stats, but random rolls will make it way too time consuming.

[Piccolo]

No random rolls. Just give the player a small amount of points to assign to the attributes and skills of their choice at the start.

 

And as an alternative option, let the player answer some questions about their character's background to generate some base stats. Like Darklands.

[Gurkog]

I don't care as long as there is no way to 'buy' additional points to put into those stats later on. It just feels hokey to me. Getting extra points for doing extraordinary feats might be okay though. I don't know, but I guess it all depends on how they do it... so why did I bother posting!

[descalabro]

On BG1 I usually would roll once or twice and then adjust the points according to my player's class (18, 18, 18 and the rest as much as I could get). Then I would use all the tomes and potions I could find to permanently increase other stats (including the ones found at TotSC). Once I imported my character into BG2 I had a very strong and relatively mentally capable fighter.

[Odarbi]

I'm on the fence between point buy and random rolls, so I voted "Random, but you can adjust".

 

While I do like the ability to sit there and endlessly roll stats so I can get the "optimal" stat build, it just gets tedious after a while. Point buy was something I hated the idea of before, but that's probably more because I was almost always ultimately 'weaker' than had I just spent rolling stats for an hour. Both systems have their merits, however. If they do go for random rolling, I would almost like to see them place a hard cap on the number of times you can re-roll for a character and not have a save option, as it might encourage people to actually accept a higher than normal but not max stat roll. However, since this is a single player game, that idea is essentially pointless, as anyone who really wants to re-roll forever until they get max stats would just quit out of character creation and continue going... and anyone who doesn't really care to have the max stats will just go when they're happy anyway.

 

 

I do like the idea of stats increasing as you do certain things (EG: using melee attacks will eventually increase your strength, casting more spells eventually increasing your relevant magic stat), but it would have to be handled carefully, the stat inflation shouldn't be too quick and should also slow down the higher a character's relevant stat currently is, and eventually the stat should reach a stat cap that it cannot progress past. Ultimately though, I think a proper system done in this style would detract too much development time and/or resources from other aspects from the game.

 

Chances are good that the random roll style that Baldurs Gate went with is the best way to go from a design stand point, as that allows the rerollers to reroll, and the point buyers to point buy.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Odarbi

[Cantousent]

I want an unweighted point buy. I despise weighted point buy. I hate it with a passion. I think it's nothing more than a heavy handed and almost always pointless way to dictate things to the player. I would rather have lower stats with a straight point buy than higher stats weighted. Hell, I would rather have random stats than a weighted point buy. Straight point buy with a reasonable spread makes the most sense to me. Just so happens that I know Sawyer prefers a straight point buy system also, if I recall it right, and so I'm pretty happy.

[duskwind]

How about a fixed number of points initially allocated randomly but subject to adjustment (perhaps within limits)? So if you like having a randomly generated character, stick with what you get, otherwise adjust it to get what you want? Or closer to what you want, if you can only move a limited number of points from one attribute to another?

[Gurkog]

Rolling for stats does not make much sense to me. If you want to Role Play a specific character why the hell would you give it random stats. The early DnD games reeked of stats and math just for the sake of doing math. That is just something that always bothered me with them.

[Captain General]

Point buy with some kind of randomness thrown in.

[Shades]

I like the BG method with random rolls that you can adjust. And that doesn't mean I sit there for ages waiting until I get all 18s, I just reroll until I get a decent total that I'm happy with (18 for one or two and the rest spread out, but usually nothing below 10).

 

I do agree with classes not relying on a single stat though. It would be great if say a fighter with intelligence could be better at planning something tactical, or dealing with an ambush etc (as impractical examples), maybe each class could have different pros and cons relating to each stat. Might get a bit confusing/complicated though.

[Chunkyman]

I like the point buy system, but I think there could be a tiny bit of randomness over something.

[generic.hybridity]

Por que no los dos?

[incubus9]

Point buy. I've spent hours rerolling my stats in BG1&2 so that every stat equals 15 when you redistribute the points. Its like an OCD level obsession and I won't start a character until it does. I have important things to do with my life, rerolling stats shouldn't be one of them.

[Odarbi]

I've suddenly remembered a stat system, which came from a series of games know as Exile by Spiderweb Software back in 1995-1997, that was rather versatile and allowed for a lot of character customization. This system was also one of the first that I am aware of to brake the mold, in that you didn't really start with a defined class - it was defined by you by your stat and skill selections.

 

The system was strikingly similar to, but still quite different from, D&D. You had your base stats and a variety of different skills(which included, but was not limited to: mage spell proficiency, priest spell proficiency, alchemy, archery, lock picking, throwing weapons, spears, swords, etc.) The real kicker was that you had to use a total point buy pool to level up both your stats and your skills at the same time, there was no differentiation between them. Leveling up your mage proficiency left you with less points to level up your intelligence or constitution. You also had the ability to take character flaws at character generation which could give you more skill points to spend, or character perks which, as I recall, would slow down your experience gain. Every level you obtained during game play would give you additional skill points that you could distribute to these things. You could spend them immediately for smaller boosts, or save the points up between levels to get something really big. Different races got additional points to spend and/or initial levels in certain skills, but usually had some sort of flaw associated with them as well.

 

Each stat and skill had a different point value, and each level obtained increased that value requires to level it further by a certain amount. Your base stats affected things like weapon damage, HP, carrying capacity, available spellpoints, etc., but your skill level for each skill was ultimately the main determining factor on what you could do with that skill, and how effective it was. In the case of magic, you could only use level 4 spells if you had level 4 mage or priest magic, regardless of how many spellpoints you had (though having a lower intelligence might leave you without the necessary amount of spellpoints with which to cast level 4 spells). Leveling lock picking would give you a greater chance of success, or reduce the chance of you breaking your pick. Leveling your weapon skills would give you a greater chance to hit, and also increase your damage by a certain amount. Higher alchemy allowed for the creation of more powerful potions. This ended up created a really interesting dynamic, in that sacrificing your base stats could mean having a stronger or better character over all.

 

Properly doing a system of this depth would not be easy, however, and would likely eat up a lot of resources. However, it could add a lot to the game.

 

I'm still perfectly fine with going for a primarily stat based D&D style system where class is the main deciding factor. I love D&D and the way it's character gen plays out, and I don't think we'll be seeing a system where class isn't involved in some way, since the stretch goals talk about adding additional classes to the game. Still, it's nice to think about additional ideas, might spark some new ideas to bring character gen to the "next level", as it were.

[Gatt9]

I prefer Random.

 

Point buy, from my observations, results in "Clone-Characters". Meaning, in any point buy system, the majority of characters in a given class will have identical or near identical stats. A Fighter is always going to have an 18 strength and high Dex/Con. A Mage is always going to have a 18 Int. The Cleric will always have an 18 Wisdom. Because in any point buy system, to do anything less than a perfect score in your prime stat(s) is just unthinkable. No one is going to willingly make a fighter with all 15's.

 

At that point, the whole thing really becomes a redundant exercise. Why even bother having stats? Just assume each class will have it's prime scores maxed and just have people announce "I'm playing a X". It puts us on that slippery slope where we end up with Bethesda games where there's no actual Character, just Mana and Stamina, which will ultimately go away as well.

 

Honestly, one of the most iconic RPG-related characters existed only because of random rolls (Raistlin).

 

I understand the arguements for point-buy, but honestly, I think random rolls don't receive sufficient consideration for what they do.

[Tamerlane]

Pure or race-based point buy.

 

Random rolls? Really?

[Bos_hybrid]

I prefer buy, not really a fan of constantly re-rolling to get to a character I want to make.

 

I admit rolling is a novelty at first. After you've done it 50 times just to get reasonable intelligence roll, not so much.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Bos_hybrid

[Sensuki]

One does not simply point buy in a classic RPG.

 

BG/IWD style please.